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sudhir007

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Broadsword: Israel develops capabilities, India pays the bill

India's first Phalcon AWACS was delivered by Israel on 25th May 2009. Here it touches down on Indian soil for the first time, at Jamnagar Air Base.

by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 9th Feb 09

For many Indian commentators, especially those on the right, Israel provides an inspiring example of how to deal with external threat. One could equally argue that notwithstanding its comfortable position as the regional hegemon, Israel and its citizens remain insecure, xenophobic and afflicted by a disturbing sense of victimhood. It’s a debate that continues, especially in that country.

What Israel unquestionably does illustrate for India --- with this country paying hundreds of millions of dollars annually for the lesson --- is a well-considered plan for building their defence industry. In becoming India’s biggest defence supplier, Israel has bared a hard-nosed strategy that our policymakers must grasp and emulate.

Since Israel does not market aircraft or ships, its defence companies have focused on the lucrative market for upgrading India’s predominantly Russian weaponry, including MiG-21 fighters; ship-borne missiles; and T-72 tanks. Their first step was to understand Russian technology, for which Israeli defence companies accepted initial contracts at cost price to build their engineers’ capabilities. With that experience gained --- at India’s cost, one must note --- Israeli systems designers progressively graduated up the complexity scale. Today, Israel’s defence industry, with capabilities honed across a generation of Russian platforms, can bid across the globe.

The opportunities for Israel are vast. Some 30,000 T-72 tanks are in service worldwide, including 2500 in India. But Israel, not India or Russia, will feed off that upgrade market. India provided Israel with the tanks, the opportunity and the money for creating that capability. Ironically, the MoD ignored India’s own defence industry; its undeniable competence could have been as easily translated into capability.

Israeli industry garnered another windfall from its offer to build the Phalcon Airborne Warning & Control System (AWACS). This airborne radar mounted on a Russian IL-76 aircraft, allows airborne controllers to monitor and control airspace for hundreds of kilometres around. No Israeli company had ever designed such an AWACS before, but India handed over US $1.1 billion (Rs 5000 crores) to Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and Elta. Hundreds of Israeli designers learned on the job, building AWACS capability on Indian money. Israel will now build another three AWACS for India, several for the Israeli Air Force and export more to Chile and Singapore.

Another feeding trough is the ongoing upgrade of Indian Navy ships, especially the technologically challenging system for “net-centric operations”. This digitally interlinks the fleet’s sensors and weapons --- in the air, on the surface and underwater --- into seamless information and command networks. The two Israeli companies bidding for this strategic contract, Rafael Advanced Defence Systems and IAI, began building capabilities while fitting Indian warships with the Barak missile early this decade. With detailed knowledge of the warships’ Russian combat management system, Israeli engineers are now ready to design the net-centric operations system, the crucial nerve centre in war.

In this, as in other upgrade contracts, India’s MoD has ignored the advantages of building indigenous capability. Precision Electronics Ltd, a Delhi-based company that engineers high-tech defence electronics, joined hands with US giant, Raytheon, to bid cheaper than Rafael and IAI. It seemed as if, at last, Indian capabilities would also be built. But, mysteriously, the MoD scrapped that tender last month. There is no way to verify the industry buzz that the Israelis contrived that cancellation; the only thing known for sure is that Rafael and IAI are being investigated by the CBI for corruption in the Barak sale. But it would be safe to bet that, when fresh bidding is ordered, the Israelis will come in with cheaper prices.

The Israeli strategy is: a financial loss is acceptable, to curb Indian defence industrial capability. Each time an Indian company develops capability in a strategically vital domain, foreign companies will be shut out from that realm forever.

Strangling the competition at birth is business, not criminal activity. Israel can be expected to do that. What defies logic, though, is the MoD’s dogged refusal to nurture Indian R&D the way it has Israel’s. This is of a piece with the MoD’s approach to Russia during that country’s troubled 1990s. With Russia’s economy bankrupt and military design bureaus and manufacturing units in dire straits, India placed a string of equipment orders --- Sukhoi-30MKI fighters; Talwar class frigates; and T-90 tanks, amongst others --- providing life support to that dying establishment. China, in contrast, simply bought over a bevy of top Russian design engineers, paying them to live in China and build capabilities within China’s defence industries.

Ashok Kanodia, the MD of Precision Electronics, admires and envies the Israeli companies. Admitting that his own strategy involves bidding at cost price, Kanodia explains, “My gain will be the engineering capability and experience that is created, with the MoD paying the bill. Monetary profits are for later.” But he ruefully admits that, with the MoD apparently unconcerned with developing Indian capabilities, Israeli firms are now unstoppable.

The MoD, it would appear, has failed to understand that the essence of defence indigenisation is about building domestic design capability. All that South Block seems to have is an oft-repeated target: moving from 70% reliance on foreign equipment to 70% supply from Indian companies. But how exactly this will be done, the MoD has never pronounced. Since a target cannot substitute for a strategy, it is time that South Block implements a clear policy that would allow Indian companies --- especially in the private sector --- to build their capabilities with some assurance of business. That might be the best thing that Israel has done for India.
 
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Broadsword: Israel develops capabilities, India pays the bill

India's first Phalcon AWACS was delivered by Israel on 25th May 2009. Here it touches down on Indian soil for the first time, at Jamnagar Air Base.

Does anybody know if the first A50 Phalcon performed inflight refuelling yet?
Also does anybody have a reliable source about the capabilities of Phalcon system that we have (EL/M 2075?), I mean detection range, how many targets can be tracked, Sigint and Elint capabilities?
 
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well no doubt ISREAL is one of the friend

we have to increase our numbers and modernisation of our force

isreal has world best tech...
 
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Very nice constructive critisim.
I think, we cannot say complete NO to foreign players, but can certainly bargain an equation like Joint Development and research so that we just dont buy.. But simultaneously Learn as well.

Indeed, if foreign countries are danger to our existing home companies, and the problem is more of the gov, policy however its soothing that the New gov is making good efforts for 'made in india' products, the akash and lca promotion being the examples.
 
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Doesn't portray the complete situation.
Defence needs are important, require both quality and timing. DRDO does a lot of research, and is awarded a lot of fund. How many projects it completes on time and with what success?
And there is hardly any private company out there, to compete with the westerns.

DRDO has been working on AWACS for a long time. But what its progress is, we all know. Whatever the reason is.

Currently, we are working on a lot of projects, some as JVs, some indigenously. At the same time, critical projects are given to foreign companies, where we can rely on them that project will be finished on time. Most projects given outside, are also worked upon in India too. Be it FAC, UAV, SAM, radar, awacs, the list goes on.

We are still trying to walk, while countries like Israel are leaping. So this policy is good, give outsiders projects which are critical (need on time) while keep working on them at home.
 
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Does anybody know if the first A50 Phalcon performed inflight refuelling yet?
Also does anybody have a reliable source about the capabilities of Phalcon system that we have (EL/M 2075?), I mean detection range, how many targets can be tracked, Sigint and Elint capabilities?

According to the Federation of American Scientists in a 2009 article, the Phalcon was the most advanced AEW&C system in the world.

EL/M-2075 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
IAI Phalcon 707

The system is currently in-service with three countries — Israel, India, Chile and Singapore.

746c559d382abb9464747501d233847e.jpg
 
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Doesn't portray the complete situation.
Defence needs are important, require both quality and timing. DRDO does a lot of research, and is awarded a lot of fund. How many projects it completes on time and with what success?
And there is hardly any private company out there, to compete with the westerns.

DRDO has been working on AWACS for a long time. But what its progress is, we all know. Whatever the reason is.

Currently, we are working on a lot of projects, some as JVs, some indigenously. At the same time, critical projects are given to foreign companies, where we can rely on them that project will be finished on time. Most projects given outside, are also worked upon in India too. Be it FAC, UAV, SAM, radar, awacs, the list goes on.

We are still trying to walk, while countries like Israel are leaping. So this policy is good, give outsiders projects which are critical (need on time) while keep working on them at home.

Very good point. I do not think that India should try to induce its own weaponry if its not up to par. DRDO and the other companies should continue to do research first until the product is ready.
 
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This is misleading. It is USA, EU, Russia that develops, then Israel steals it (in broad daylight, see example of the 3 German nuclear subs that Israel 'buys' without paying anything!!!), then it sells the leftover (with kill switch installed) to India. :)
 
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This is misleading. It is USA, EU, Russia that develops, then Israel steals it (in broad daylight, see example of the 3 German nuclear subs that Israel 'buys' without paying anything!!!), then it sells the leftover (with kill switch installed) to India. :)

When did India buy submarine from Israel ?
 
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Isreal is in bed with the Indians yet many Indian members do not see how extensive and important their geo strategic relationship is due to secrecy and unpublished.

Israel is the only way Indians could have access to 2nd grade American and european tech much to the American's displeasure.

Though in the long run Israel will use India to her advantage, like we've seen India develop her defensive industries, and then later discard it if their is any politically natured conflict of interest.
 
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This is misleading. It is USA, EU, Russia that develops, then Israel steals it (in broad daylight, see example of the 3 German nuclear subs that Israel 'buys' without paying anything!!!), then it sells the leftover (with kill switch installed) to India. :)
First of all, Germany has no nuclear subs, only conventional with diesel-electric propulsion and as Goodperson said before, when did we bought subs, or systems for subs from Israel?
 
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EL/M-2075 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
IAI Phalcon 707

The system is currently in-service with three countries — Israel, India, Chile and Singapore.
Thanks navtrek! I know the wiki page of course, but that's exactly why I asked for more sources, because this system is not in use with other countries. If I'm not wrong Chile has the EL/M 2075, but with an older PESA platform, so I doubt that the specs of it will be comparable to ours. Also Singapore uses the new EL/M 2085 on their Gulfstream version ( http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/7/35467.pdf ), so these capabilities could be different too and the wiki page is mixing it all up, only because they are all Phalcon systems.
 
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Frankly I believe all the complex projects should be done through a JV with countries that already have experience.
 
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This is misleading. It is USA, EU, Russia that develops, then Israel steals it (in broad daylight, see example of the 3 German nuclear subs that Israel 'buys' without paying anything!!!), then it sells the leftover (with kill switch installed) to India. :)
Actually you are wrong my friend. Israel doesn't manufacture attack submarines. Indian submarines are either German or Russian in origin. However, Israel does manufacture and design a lot of electronic warfare gear and secondary weapon systems. They have some of the most advanced defense systems around the world. As compared to earlier generations where Americans were the primary research partners, many Israeli firms are now self-reliant due to large export revenue. Switzerland has also in the past bought secondary equipment from Israel.

Not accepting their technological finesse is very immature of you.
 
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