Islamization of Jinnah.

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan Did Quiad e Azam wanted same Islamic nazaam and sharia what Taliban or TTP practice (or practiced) ?

Not that but he wanted Islam and he was clear on what Islam is mr pretty clear and it doesn't matter what Jinnah wanted what matter is what Allah and his rasool saw have said and wanted every other saying and order is judged on that if according to that accepted otherwise rejected

 

[niaz]

I have seen Pakistan from her birth and read about our Quaid since an early age. Problem is that modern columnists and writers try to mould the character of the Quaid according to their ideas by quoting odd speeches out of context.

In my view political career of our Quaid had 2 different periods. During his early political career he was influenced by Dadabhai Noorooji and also acted as Dadabhai’s private Secretary. Sarojni Naidu, first women president of Indian National Congress wrote a book “Muhammad Jinnah: An Ambassador of Unity“ which covers the period up to 1916. Quaid opposed Gandhi’ s non-cooperation programme at the Nagpur Congress in December 1920 and from 1925 he moved away from Congress ideology.

After the Quaid had been persuaded by Nawabzada Liaqat Ali Khan to return to India and take over the leadership of the Muslim League in 1933; an altogether different period of the Quaid’s political career started.

Dr Mubarak Ali is a respected historian and I would agree with most of his observations Arguably most authentic biography of Jinnah is by Hector Bolitho, who was appointed official biographer of Quaid e Azam by the gov’t of Pakistan, titled ” Jinnah –Creator of Pakistan’ published in 1954. The book is available and I would recommend members to read it to get a better idea of Quaid's personality.

Critics of the period such as Jamaat Islami & the Deobandi scholars who opposed Muslim League and creation of Pakistan were neither total bigots nor total idiots. I do not agree with Maulana Maudoodi, Maulana Hasan Madani or Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, but I have lot of respect for these scholars of Islam. These notable personalities were correct in their presumption that because most of the leaders of Muslim League were not practicing orthodox Muslims; Muslim League leadership was not competent to create a truly Islamic State on the lines envisaged by the orthodox scholars. Their supposition was correct as the Muslim League did not intend to create a theocratic Sunni State.

My hero and our founder Quaid e Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah was without doubt a man of impeccable integrity but he was also a politician. Quaid delivered some speeches meant for the consumption of the religious right primarily to dilute their opposition to the Pakistan movement. To take a couple of speeches by the Quaid and ignore loads of other; and attempt to prove that the Quaid wanted an Islamic theocratic Pakistan is nothing short of an ideological fraud in my view.

I firmly believe that Pakistan was always meant to be a country for the Muslim people but not for the mullahs.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Not that but he wanted Islam and he was clear on what Islam is mr pretty clear and it doesn't matter what Jinnah wanted what matter is what Allah and his rasool saw have said and wanted every other saying and order is judged on that if according to that accepted otherwise rejected

I am sure about one thing that he was not in favor of putting his version of Islam in throat of others by force

 

[Zarvan]

I am sure about one thing that he was not in favor of putting his version of Islam in throat of others by force

Who mr when state is established than laws are implemented buy full force and if government will not do it people will rise up an do it

 

[M. Sarmad]

I firmly believe that Pakistan was always meant to be a country for the Muslim people but not for the mullahs.

The testimony of the first high commissioner of India to Pakistan, Shri Prakash is very important. In an official meeting with the Qaid-e-Azam at his residence in September 1947, he said to Qaid-e-Azam, “Even though the division occurred due to religious differences, why should the fact be emphasised that Pakistan is a Islamic state, because if Pakistan is not called a Islamic state repeatedly, the non-Muslim residents will not leave Pakistan". Mr Jinnah replied, "I have never used the word 'Islamic'. You are holding a responsible post, you should tell me when I said that." Sri Prakash then said, “The Prime Minister of Pakistan Liaqat Ali Khan has said that Pakistan is an Islamic country". Mr Jinnah retorted," Then you should ask for an explanation from him. Why are you quarrelling with me?” Shri Prakash insisted, “In your speech on Radio Lahore on August 31, you had said, "Pakistan is an Islamic state". To that Qaid-e-Azam said angrily, "Please show me the original version."

Shri Prakash writes that after that he studied Qaid-e-Azam's broadcast speech very keenly. Really he had not used the word 'Islamic' even once, though he had used the word 'Muslim' on five or six occasions. Therefore he wrote a letter of apology to the Qaid-e-Azam. Mr Jinnah was a lawyer in the top league and so he knew the meanings of the two words. By Muslim state, such a state is meant where the Muslims are in majority. On the other hand, an Islamic state means a state where the laws are based on Shariah laws. If there was no difference between the two terms, then the Qaid-e-Azam would have said, "Either you call it a Muslim state or an Islamic state, what is the difference"?


Also The first session of the Legislative Assembly of Pakistan in which Qaid-e-Azam Md Ali Jinnah was also present started without a recitation of the Quran.

The differences in points of view between Liaqat Ali Khan and Md Ali Jinnah over the future political shape of Pakistan are history now. Jinnah's destination was a modern democratic state whereas the political temperament of Liaqat Ali Khan was free from democratic shackles.

In the Lahore resolution the term 'Islamic state', 'shariah-based system' or 'Islamic system' was not even once mentioned.

Addressing the Muslim League convention in Delhi on April 11,1946, Qaid-e-Azam said, "What are we fighting for? Theocracy is not our goal, nor do we want a theocratic state. No one denies the existence of faith, and faith is indeed close to our heart. But there are other things which are equally necessary, such as our social life and our economic life, and how are you going to safeguard your economic life without political power?"

It is in the knowledge of all that fatwas of kufr (infidelity) issued against Qaide Azam were in reaction to his speech in Lucknow session of the Muslim League in 1938 in which he had advocated the participation of women in public life

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Who mr when state is established than laws are implemented buy full force and if government will not do it people will rise up an do it

But which state talibans established? everyone of them were taking laws in their hands to beat guys and gals on road for not keeping beard and wearing burqa or not offering salah .secularism is 100 times better than such barbaric system where everyone act as butcher

 

[Zarvan]

But which state talibans established? everyone of them were taking laws in their hands to beat guys and gals on road for not keeping beard and wearing burqa or not offering salah .secularism is 100 times better than such barbaric system where everyone act as butcher

Secularism is Kufr first off all secondly hijab is compulsory and government should make sure it is done and so called secular countries have highest rate off crimes specially rape and if you want your relative women to face this your choice in Muslim countries sooner or later Islam would those who oppose it would be wiped out

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Secularism is Kufr first off all secondly hijab is compulsory and government should make sure it is done and so called secular countries have highest rate off crimes specially rape and if you want your relative women to face this your choice in Muslim countries sooner or later Islam would those who oppose it would be wiped out

I am sure you dont even know what is secularism Life and izzat of people is more secure and protected in secular uk than in Islamic republic of Pakistan or Islamic saudia or Iran . Justice for everyone( rich or poor, black or white, Muslim or non Muslims) and rights of religious freedom to everyone...These are some basic Islamic concept of good society which are more prevalent in secular kufar countries. Hate, intolerance,bigotry, discrimination, illiteracy and killing is what your mullah gave us and they dont know abc of welfare state

 

[Zarvan]

I am sure you dont even know what is secularism Life and izzat of people is more secure and protected in secular uk than in Islamic republic of Pakistan or Islamic saudia or Iran . Justice for everyone( rich or poor, black or white, Muslim or non Muslims) and rights of religious freedom to everyone...These are some basic Islamic concept of good society which are more prevalent in secular kufar countries. Hate, intolerance,bigotry, discrimination, illiteracy and killing is what your mullah gave us and they dont know abc of welfare state

Yes I know and it's all false and bullshit how much rights they give everyone knows and life izzat is far from being safe until you become their pet dog

 

[Secur]

I am sure you dont even know what is secularism

Give it a few tries and I would start to seem better .

You are engaging a Mullah-bot and a broken tape , be advised

Yes in Makkah those who were forgive were forgiven becuase Jihad was not made farz Mr other wise in Madinah most who abused or talked abusive against HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW were eliminated everything can be tolerated Mr but not insult of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW

Ya Zarvan ! Please tell me of the list of people killed by the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. for abusing/insulting/criticizing him ?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Yes I know and it's all false and bullshit how much rights they give everyone knows and life izzat is far from being safe until you become their pet dog

oh mere bhi they even issue visa to your tabligi jamati so that you can curse yahood and nasara in mosque and do tablig of deen by knocking doors of others ..

I was offering eid prayer in our mosque and we had local MP visited the mosque to congrats us on our festival but that poor guy did not know that we is being said in arabic against yahood and nasara when imam was making dua

Your eyes will open and your mind will ger broad if you ever visit these kufar countries and see that how peacefully they are living side by side with people of different races, color, religion etc..our mullah issue fatwas and run to kill fellow muslims on minor differences let alone treating others with fairness

 

[Zarvan]

Give it a few tries and I would start to seem better .

You are engaging a Mullah-bot and a broken tape , be advised



Ya Zarvan ! Please tell me of the list of people killed by the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. for abusing/insulting/criticizing him ?

I would give the list and also names of them one of them was Kaab bin Asharf than their were two people who were taken as prisoners in Battle of Badar but they were killed on way to Madinah they used to put Camel's intestines and other bad stuff on back of RASOOL SAW when he used to offer Salah than they were two people one slave girl and and his master who used to sing and abuse HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW through that the master hid himself in Galaf e Kaba Sahaba returned to ask RASOOL SAW he hid their RASOOL SAW replied killed him their than another abuser was killed HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW sent a group of people to execute him he was taken out by 4 Sahabis than a Sahabi killed his slave girl she abused HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and when HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW was told about it he said he did the right thing their are few more incidents

 

[Zarvan]

oh mere bhi they even issue visa to your tabligi jamati so that you can curse yahood and nasara in mosque and do tablig of deen by knocking doors of others ..

I was offering eid prayer in our mosque and we had local MP visited the mosque to congrats us on our festival but that poor guy did not know that we is being said in arabic against yahood and nasara when imam was making dua

Your eyes will open and your mind will ger broad if you ever visit these kufar countries and see that how peacefully they are living side by side with people of different races, color, religion etc..our mullah issue fatwas and run to kill fellow muslims on minor differences let alone treating others with fairness

Yes and they bomb and mass murder Muslims in thousands yes their soldiers are involved in rape of Muslim girls yes they are the ones who mass murdered each other in two world wars and yes if you don't talk much about Jihad they allow you to do tableegh other wise in many cases either you get banned from entering or you are thrown in Jail

 

[M. Sarmad]

Ya Zarvan ! Please tell me of the list of people killed by the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. for abusing/insulting/criticizing him ?

I would give the list and also names of them one of them was Kaab bin Asharf than their were two people who were taken as prisoners in Battle of Badar but they were killed on way to Madinah they used to put Camel's intestines and other bad stuff on back of RASOOL SAW when he used to offer Salah than they were two people one slave girl and and his master who used to sing and abuse HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW through that the master hid himself in Galaf e Kaba Sahaba returned to ask RASOOL SAW he hid their RASOOL SAW replied killed him their than another abuser was killed HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW sent a group of people to execute him he was taken out by 4 Sahabis than a Sahabi killed his slave girl she abused HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW and when HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW was told about it he said he did the right thing their are few more incidents

A perfect example of Mullah Hypocrisy !!! @Zarvan lying as usual and thinking he would get away with it !!!

The most interesting part is that Zarvan is quoting stories from anti Islam/propaganda websites this time , to prove his point !!!



Kaab Ibne Ashraf was not killed because of his insults to the prophet or the Muslims. He was killed for some other reason ; He went to the prophet’s enemies, and incited them against Muhammad, he incited them to fight and kill the prophet Muhammad:

Rebuttal to Silas’s article: MUHAMMAD AND THE MURDER OF KAB BIN AL-ASHRAF.





And the second story about an-Nadr ibn al-Harith and 'Uqbah ibn Abi Mu'ayt killed on way to Medinah after Badr for insulting prophet(pbuh) is also a lie !!!

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 241:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud: Once the Prophet was offering prayers at the Ka'ba. Abu Jahl was sitting with some of his companions. One of them said to the others, "Who amongst you will bring the abdominal contents (intestines, etc.) of a camel of Bani so and so and put it on the back of Muhammad, when he prostrates?" The most unfortunate of them got up and brought it. He waited till the Prophet prostrated and then placed it on his back between his shoulders. I was watching but could not do any thing. I wish I had some people with me to hold out against them. They started laughing and falling on one another. Allah's Apostle was in prostration and he did not lift his head up till Fatima (Prophet's daughter) came and threw that (camel's abdominal contents) away from his back. He raised his head and said thrice, "O Allah! Punish Quraish." So it was hard for Abu Jahl and his companions when the Prophet invoked Allah against them as they had a conviction that the prayers and invocations were accepted in this city (Mecca). The Prophet said, "O Allah! Punish Abu Jahl, 'Utba bin Rabi'a, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, Al-Walid bin 'Utba, Umaiya bin Khalaf, and 'Uqba bin Al Mu'it (and he mentioned the seventh whose name I cannot recall). By Allah in Whose Hands my life is, I saw the dead bodies of those persons who were counted by Allah's Apostle in the Qalib (one of the wells) of Badr.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 9, Number 499:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimuin: 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said, "While Allah's Apostle was praying beside the Ka'ba, there were some Quraish people sitting in a gathering. One of them said, 'Don't you see this (who does deeds just to show off)? Who amongst you can go and bring the dung, blood and the abdominal contents (intestines, etc). of the slaughtered camels of the family of so and so and then wait till he prostrates and put that in between his shoulders?' The most unfortunate amongst them ('Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait) went (and brought them) and when Allah's Apostle prostrated, he put them between his shoulders. The Prophet remained in prostration and they laughed so much so that they fell on each other. A passerby went to Fatima, who was a young girl in those days. She came running and the Prophet was still in prostration. She removed them and cursed upon the Quraish on their faces. When Allah's Apostle completed his prayer, he said, 'O Allah! Take revenge on Quraish.' He said so thrice and added, 'O Allah! take revenge on 'Amr bin Hisham, 'Utba bin Rabia, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, Al-Walid bin'Utba, Umaiya bin Khalaf, 'Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait and 'Umar a bin Al-Walid." Abdullah added, "By Allah! I saw all of them dead in the battle field on the day of Badr and they were dragged and thrown in the Qalib (a well) at Badr: Allah's Apostle then said, 'Allah's curse has descended upon the people of the Qalib (well).


Uqba was killed in Battle field and not on the way to Medina !!!
So the story of him being killed on way to Madina (for insulting prophet) is another example of Mullahs` lies!!!

The hypocrisy of Zarvan is amazing . He always says that history books are BS and only Hadith are trustworthy and here he is quoting a story from a very unauthentic history book and ignoring Sahih Hadith & all other history books just to prove his point !!!

Kuch sharam ker @Zarvan . And don`t ruin this thread with your Mullah crap . Open a new thread for that

 

[Zarvan]

A perfect example of Mullah Hypocrisy !!! @Zarvan lying as usual and thinking he would get away with it !!!

The most interesting part is that Zarvan is quoting stories from anti Islam/propaganda websites this time , to prove his point !!!



Kaab Ibne Ashraf was not killed because of his insults to the prophet or the Muslims. He was killed for some other reason ; He went to the prophet’s enemies, and incited them against Muhammad, he incited them to fight and kill the prophet Muhammad:

Rebuttal to Silas’s article: MUHAMMAD AND THE MURDER OF KAB BIN AL-ASHRAF.





And the second story about an-Nadr ibn al-Harith and 'Uqbah ibn Abi Mu'ayt killed on way to Medinah after Badr for insulting prophet(pbuh) is also a lie !!!

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 4, Number 241:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud: Once the Prophet was offering prayers at the Ka'ba. Abu Jahl was sitting with some of his companions. One of them said to the others, "Who amongst you will bring the abdominal contents (intestines, etc.) of a camel of Bani so and so and put it on the back of Muhammad, when he prostrates?" The most unfortunate of them got up and brought it. He waited till the Prophet prostrated and then placed it on his back between his shoulders. I was watching but could not do any thing. I wish I had some people with me to hold out against them. They started laughing and falling on one another. Allah's Apostle was in prostration and he did not lift his head up till Fatima (Prophet's daughter) came and threw that (camel's abdominal contents) away from his back. He raised his head and said thrice, "O Allah! Punish Quraish." So it was hard for Abu Jahl and his companions when the Prophet invoked Allah against them as they had a conviction that the prayers and invocations were accepted in this city (Mecca). The Prophet said, "O Allah! Punish Abu Jahl, 'Utba bin Rabi'a, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, Al-Walid bin 'Utba, Umaiya bin Khalaf, and 'Uqba bin Al Mu'it (and he mentioned the seventh whose name I cannot recall). By Allah in Whose Hands my life is, I saw the dead bodies of those persons who were counted by Allah's Apostle in the Qalib (one of the wells) of Badr.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 9, Number 499:
Narrated 'Amr bin Maimuin: 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud said, "While Allah's Apostle was praying beside the Ka'ba, there were some Quraish people sitting in a gathering. One of them said, 'Don't you see this (who does deeds just to show off)? Who amongst you can go and bring the dung, blood and the abdominal contents (intestines, etc). of the slaughtered camels of the family of so and so and then wait till he prostrates and put that in between his shoulders?' The most unfortunate amongst them ('Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait) went (and brought them) and when Allah's Apostle prostrated, he put them between his shoulders. The Prophet remained in prostration and they laughed so much so that they fell on each other. A passerby went to Fatima, who was a young girl in those days. She came running and the Prophet was still in prostration. She removed them and cursed upon the Quraish on their faces. When Allah's Apostle completed his prayer, he said, 'O Allah! Take revenge on Quraish.' He said so thrice and added, 'O Allah! take revenge on 'Amr bin Hisham, 'Utba bin Rabia, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, Al-Walid bin'Utba, Umaiya bin Khalaf, 'Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait and 'Umar a bin Al-Walid." Abdullah added, "By Allah! I saw all of them dead in the battle field on the day of Badr and they were dragged and thrown in the Qalib (a well) at Badr: Allah's Apostle then said, 'Allah's curse has descended upon the people of the Qalib (well).


Uqba was killed in Battle field and not on the way to Medina !!!
So the story of him being killed on way to Madina (for insulting prophet) is another example of Mullahs` lies!!!

The hypocrisy of Zarvan is amazing . He always says that history books are BS and only Hadith are trustworthy and here he is quoting a story from a very unauthentic history book and ignoring Hadith & all other history books just to prove his point !!!

Kuch sharam ker @Zarvan . And don`t ruin this thread with your Mullah crap . Open a new thread for that

Mr those who were forgiven were forgiven in Makkah Mr because Jihad was not made Farz and ALLAH didn't allowed HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW to hit back Mr but in Madinah Jihad was made farz and all those who insulted HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW were wiped out but Kharjis always deny because they are traitors of RASOOL SAW and one of the modern time Kharjis in Abu Juhal Mr many of them were killed in Badar and dumbo two were taken prisoners and they were killed on way back to Madinah I will tell you also their name

And by the way it was Hazrat ALI RA who killed those two on order of RASOOL SAW