ISLAMIC GOLDEN AGE

[notsuperstitious]

Persian empire, constantinople, indian civilisation, the silk route all the way to china - these were already great places of achievements. Islamic imperialism greatly contributed to establishing contact across these and thus contributed to overall growth everywhere. But any imperialist who lasted long enough indeed caused that.

But Arabia had to wait 1300 years for westerners to strike oil, and despite great riches to this day is a gaping hole on the science and culture scene across the world.

If one has to link this to religion, one will have to come up with fundamental factors that contributed to the so called achievements. The western achievements have been mindblowing in comparison but they can not be called ''christian'' or ''jewish'' golden age, as the essential factors - an open mind, ability to challenge whats written in ancient books, loosening of traditional hold of religion over power and people - have nothing to do with christianity. The only credit for christianity is that they managed to adjust with the times and essentially allowed room for science to rule the roost.

Its understandable to have this popular narrative and muslims taking pride in it, but if this is going to fool your young into rejecting modern progressive attitudes in favor of ''golden age'' attitudes, then its self defeating.

 

[474474]

Persian empire, constantinople, indian civilisation, the silk route all the way to china - these were already great places of achievements. Islamic imperialism greatly contributed to establishing contact across these and thus contributed to overall growth everywhere. But any imperialist who lasted long enough indeed caused that.

But Arabia had to wait 1300 years for westerners to strike oil, and despite great riches to this day is a gaping hole on the science and culture scene across the world.

If one has to link this to religion, one will have to come up with fundamental factors that contributed to the so called achievements. The western achievements have been mindblowing in comparison but they can not be called ''christian'' or ''jewish'' golden age, as the essential factors - an open mind, ability to challenge whats written in ancient books, loosening of traditional hold of religion over power and people - have nothing to do with christianity. The only credit for christianity is that they managed to adjust with the times and essentially allowed room for science to rule the roost.

Its understandable to have this popular narrative and muslims taking pride in it, but if this is going to fool your young into rejecting modern progressive attitudes in favor of ''golden age'' attitudes, then its self defeating.

That's the most retarded thing I've heard, it was Islam that opened peoples minds for the first time after the ancient greeks, and it was the spread of the Islamic way of thinking many european scientists got inspired. Christianity held science back, while Islam encouraged it. But of course, you will never be satisfied until we believe what you believe, so to you yours and to me mine

 

[Hussein]

Muslims abandoned the path of science and knowledge for sake of wealth and luxurious lives. A pitiful tale that every historian will write till the end of time.

it can change
maybe we need to be more confident

 

[INDIC]

That's the most retarded thing I've heard, it was Islam that opened peoples minds for the first time after the ancient greeks, and it was the spread of the Islamic way of thinking [/B]many european scientists got inspired.[/B] Christianity held science back, while Islam encouraged it. But of course, you will never be satisfied until we believe what you believe, so to you yours and to me mine

Europeans were inspired when Europeans started to dig and started taking interest in the past glory of Greeks and Romans which resulted in Renaissance.

 

[notsuperstitious]

That's the most retarded thing I've heard, it was Islam that opened peoples minds for the first time after the ancient greeks, and it was the spread of the Islamic way of thinking many european scientists got inspired. Christianity held science back, while Islam encouraged it. But of course, you will never be satisfied until we believe what you believe, so to you yours and to me mine

Its is not my desire to discuss beliefs. And if you are going to throw popular narratives, then the burning nalanda university comes to mind.

 

[474474]

Its is not my desire to discuss beliefs. And if you are going to throw popular narratives, then the burning nalanda university comes to mind.

Were those who burned the Uni muslims scientists? No.
FYI, most muslim universities were open for outsiders to come in and debate

 

[Kompromat]

@fathe71 Spare this thread...

 

[notsuperstitious]

Were those who burned the Uni muslims scientists? No.
FYI, most muslim universities were open for outsiders to come in and debate

No doubt, a place of learning is good, be in muslim or non muslim country. But the problem arises when people link religion with science. Like Sultan Bashiruddin Mehmood wanting to use the energy of Djinns to fix pakistan's energy problems.

I'm sure universities in muslim countries did not such silly thing, they pursued science as a secular subject. These universities had people from various places like American universities have people from various places, not because america is a ''christian'' state.

In India the islamic golden period was under Akbar where many non muslims worked for him. Infact how much of a muslim he was is debatable. There is no religious link, no fundamental factors that can be attributed to religion.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

[Silverblaze]

The so-called Golden Age of Islam (8th to 13th centuries CE) where contributions to science is boasted about from every minaret around the globe, could hardly be considered as Islam's contributions, but rather the culmination of knowledge from the conquered territories. This knowledge was however well assimilated by intellectuals mostly from Persia and Iraq who were essentially not religious, nor used Islam to formulate their science. At the time such scientists were referred to as Mu'tazila (deserters of Islam) by the Islamic clergy. Today their achievements are hailed as Islamic science.

Well every culture and empire had done that. Romans from Greeks and Arabs from Romans. The treatment meted out to muslim scientists was far worse then you describe in the later centuries.

Arab muslim scientists and even some locally converted muslims made incredible contribution in the beginning which should be appreciated. Music, poetry, literature, arts.

Some rulers listened less to mullahs and more rationale.

The reason was rational thinking and not mullahism which damaged many things. In spain for example, muslims were more rational, secular, tolerant and modern in comparison at that time and may be even today.

That's the most retarded thing I've heard, it was Islam that opened peoples minds for the first time after the ancient greeks, and it was the spread of the Islamic way of thinking many european scientists got inspired. Christianity held science back, while Islam encouraged it. But of course, you will never be satisfied until we believe what you believe, so to you yours and to me mine

You are right, but religious extremism in Islam damaged it. Too much religion in everything damaged Islam. Rationale was replaced by mullahism. Ottomons were once advised by mullahs to not to allow printing because it will challenge their power.

 

[Silverblaze]

Islamic banking, Islamic Civilization and now Islamic Science....

Anyone up for Islamic Lunch? Anyone


Going for islamic sleep, GN guys

Oh come on, Why celebrate the vedic civilization then? Why celebrate the festivals thousands of years old? Let people celebrate and enjoy and learn from the past.

Persian empire, constantinople, indian civilisation, the silk route all the way to china - these were already great places of achievements. Islamic imperialism greatly contributed to establishing contact across these and thus contributed to overall growth everywhere. But any imperialist who lasted long enough indeed caused that.

But Arabia had to wait 1300 years for westerners to strike oil, and despite great riches to this day is a gaping hole on the science and culture scene across the world.

If one has to link this to religion, one will have to come up with fundamental factors that contributed to the so called achievements. The western achievements have been mindblowing in comparison but they can not be called ''christian'' or ''jewish'' golden age, as the essential factors - an open mind, ability to challenge whats written in ancient books, loosening of traditional hold of religion over power and people - have nothing to do with christianity. The only credit for christianity is that they managed to adjust with the times and essentially allowed room for science to rule the roost.

Its understandable to have this popular narrative and muslims taking pride in it, but if this is going to fool your young into rejecting modern progressive attitudes in favor of ''golden age'' attitudes, then its self defeating.

You are quite right, but people do it. Still today the Christian world takes pride in the Crusades. Without realizing how bloody and ridiculous they were, they still glorify them.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Muslims abandoned the path of science and knowledge for sake of wealth and luxurious lives. A pitiful tale that every historian will write till the end of time.

That's not all.

They kept spending more on military campaigns and infighting...

 

[BATMAN]

Muslims abandoned the path of science and knowledge for sake of wealth and luxurious lives. A pitiful tale that every historian will write till the end of time.

No.. actually Muslims abandoned the path of Islam, hence Allah abandoned them.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Persian empire, constantinople, indian civilisation, the silk route all the way to china - these were already great places of achievements. Islamic imperialism greatly contributed to establishing contact across these and thus contributed to overall growth everywhere. But any imperialist who lasted long enough indeed caused that.

But Arabia had to wait 1300 years for westerners to strike oil, and despite great riches to this day is a gaping hole on the science and culture scene across the world.

If one has to link this to religion, one will have to come up with fundamental factors that contributed to the so called achievements. The western achievements have been mindblowing in comparison but they can not be called ''christian'' or ''jewish'' golden age, as the essential factors - an open mind, ability to challenge whats written in ancient books, loosening of traditional hold of religion over power and people - have nothing to do with christianity. The only credit for christianity is that they managed to adjust with the times and essentially allowed room for science to rule the roost.

Its understandable to have this popular narrative and muslims taking pride in it, but if this is going to fool your young into rejecting modern progressive attitudes in favor of ''golden age'' attitudes, then its self defeating.

One cannot know everything.

In fact, even the Western World knew nothing at first. They traveled around the world, gathered knowledge, and formed one model that had revolutionized the world. Even today, we all can feel it. The Renaissance is the stuff of legend.

And so did the "Islamic" Arabs. But that was all destroyed during the Mongol invasion, and chances of rising again diminished due to infighting and Colonialism.

Wars and imperialism is one of the ways to gain knowledge from another civilization.

I agree that it is wrong for all to take credit of this "Islamic Golden Age". These all took place in the middle east.

By that logic, my country Bangladesh should also take credit for those past achievements by middle eastern scientists and researchers. That was when my countrymen at the time were bare-chested hunters and fishermen.

Or does that make Bangladeshis "less Muslimish"?

Do you know what kind of people follow this sort of mentality? White supremacists.

Even the Mughal Empire wasn't particularly that bright, and let alone innovative.

Suffice to say, Muslims today need to focus on progress, and use their brains instead of throwing rocks.

Nonetheless, it is nice to read up some history, and those countries where those achievements took place should look at them as an example for progress.

 

[Persian Achaemenid Empire]

I am very sorry but, majorty of the achievements in the so called ISLAMIC golden age was made by Persians. it has nothing to do with Islamic per se, now we can give credit to Islamc in a sense that it made the Persian start to do science on "paper" and document it, but so what?
The Persian civilization pre dates the Islamic one by at least 5000 years and where was Islam when ancient Iranians were performing brain surgery in 3000 BCE in the " burnt city"? Where was Islam when Persian invented the yakhchall, the qanats.

The Ancient Persian even created the idea of monotheistic religion called Zoroastriasm which Islam and other Ibrahim religion simply took their ideas from.

Go look at all the amazing achievement in pre-Islamic Iran. The Persians are smart people regardless of their religion. I am not even religious and I have studied at one of the best universities on the planet (oxford) and there was not a single muslim who get in the top 20 of my class, but is it a coincidence that there were 3 Iranians in top 10 from total 3 Iranians in the class?

even though maybe 20% of the class were muslims, none of them even came into the top 10 lol.
so please do not insult The Persians by trying to make it seem like it was Islam that made the Persian make their achievments.

I am not trying to insults Islam but please realize a religion may make you a better person but it will never make you more smarter than you are.

 

[Hussein]

It is nothing to do with Persians being smarter . It is about education was always very important in our culture.
But we are not the only ones.

I don't think any superiority of Iranians on other. That is quite stupid.

In the golden age of Islam they were not only Persians.

When i was working in labs, the best were coming from all planet (almost) and for theory in my field Russians were excellent, Germans for technic and US people for intuition. You can consider that Russia for a such small population was doing as well excellency in many fields . Germans too.
What achieved Iran nowadays ? Nothing. The smart guys need to escape the country if they really want to do science .

Let's start to improve our country and invest like do some GCC countries