Islamic Eschatology - Strategic importance!

[The Accountant]

And what would you call Sahih Bukhari and other five books? Sayings of who?

Sayings or acts of prophet SAW as narrated by his companions ...

 

[I.R.A]

IRA you are wrong....

How many sects are there already?

Does Quran allow sects?

Do you think anyone, I mean anyone can dissolve these sects and bring unity the Khilafah? How many Muslims have died at the hands of Muslims themselves? Did this whole scale killing of Muslims ever awake any of the Muslim country or their leader to press for unity, make an all inclusive alliance, drop the sectarian and historical differences, mend our ways ........... do you really think Saudis and Iranians will be willing to share their oil with rest of us Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalians, Bosnian etc? These lazy rears can't even agree on one single thing and you think they will all agree on a person called Mahdi (if he ever appears). Palestine, Bosnia, Kashmir, Myanmar, Timour, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Iraq ....... millions killed, millions left orphan, millions left widows, millions tortured, millions left homeless ........ and all these 50 plus Muslim countries remained insensitive and indifferent.

And how many times Mahdi has already appeared?

The prophecies that were supposed to be conveyed are already mentioned in Quran buddy, there is nothing out of Quran, Messenger Muhammad whenever he was asked about the judgement day, always replied something like "I am a mortal man like you, I don't Know, only ALLAH knows, wait for it as I am waiting"

Hazrat Muhammad Peace be upon him was a Messenger who was given the most advanced divine message, the final one ....... as long as His followers remained stead fast and kept following Quran, they remained united and unbeaten ....... the cunning enemy realizing this constructed a parallel religion for them to render them incapable, and the enemy has been successful ..........

You can call me wrong I don't mind, but can you deny the current state of Muslims?

Sayings or acts of prophet SAW as narrated by his companions ...

Have you read these books yourself?

I can post with references narrations which are not sayings of Messenger Peace be upon him. Are insulting, degrading and maligning respectable honored personalities.

 

[The Accountant]

How many sects are there already?

Does Quran allow sects?

Do you think anyone, I mean anyone can dissolve these sects and bring unity the Khilafah? How many Muslims have died at the hands of Muslims themselves? Did this whole scale killing of Muslims ever awake any of the Muslim country or their leader to press for unity, make an all inclusive alliance, drop the sectarian and historical differences, mend our ways ........... do you really think Saudis and Iranians will be willing to share their oil with rest of us Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalians, Bosnian etc? These lazy rears can't even agree on one single thing and you think they will all agree on a person called Mahdi (if he ever appears). Palestine, Bosnia, Kashmir, Myanmar, Timour, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Iraq ....... millions killed, millions left orphan, millions left widows, millions tortured, millions left homeless ........ and all these 50 plus Muslim countries remained insensitive and indifferent.

And how many times Mahdi has already appeared?

The prophecies that were supposed to be conveyed are already mentioned in Quran buddy, there is nothing out of Quran, Messenger Muhammad whenever he was asked about the judgement day, always replied something like "I am a mortal man like you, I don't Know, only ALLAH knows, wait for it as I am waiting"

Hazrat Muhammad Peace be upon him was a Messenger who was given the most advanced divine message, the final one ....... as long as His followers remained stead fast and kept following Quran, they remained united and unbeaten ....... the cunning enemy realizing this constructed a parallel religion for them to render them incapable, and the enemy has been successful ..........

You can call me wrong I don't mind, but can you deny the current state of Muslims?




Have you read these books yourself?

I can post with references narrations which are not sayings of Messenger Peace be upon him. Are insulting, degrading and maligning respectable honored personalities.

All these are your opinions nithing backed by any real facts ... In my opinion enemy wants us to be separated from hadiths so that we stop beliving in whats next and more muslims will reject hazrat imam mehdi AS and hazrat issa AS and will eventually loose faith ...

All the problems you highlighted were also mentioned in hadiths including sects, fighting within muslims, shia sunni conflicts, rejections of mehdi AS ...

I have read sahih bukhari and yes it has other references as well but its not the core of the books and it does not make them fabricated at all ...

 

[litman]

for those who can think rationally i think it is sufficient.
i always fail to understand why people reject the second coming of jesus when it is hinted in Quran quite clearly. they claim that its in hadith only. now they fail miserably to understand that who was the first man who taught Quran to muslims? it was Prophet Muhammad SAW himself who was the first teacher of Quran. those who reject authentic hadiths are the people who think that when Quran was revealed to the Prophet he narrated it to his companions who crammed it like a parrot and didnt ask any question about it from the Prophet.

 

[I.R.A]

All these are your opinions nithing backed by any real facts

Yep wars in Muslims countries are not happening, no Muslims got massacred systematically, there no sects amongst Muslims .......... all these are my opinions, nothing backed by real facts. Shabash ay.

I have read sahih bukhari and yes it has other references as well but its not the core of the books and it does not make them fabricated at all ...

Let me ask you a very straight and direct question, it would offend you, but I have no other choice. I am sorry about this, it's not on purpose.

How willing are you to share your private life in a book? Would you or your family women be willing that they make narrations in a book about their private lives?

it was Prophet Muhammad SAW himself who was the first teacher of Quran. those who reject authentic hadiths are the people who think that when Quran was revealed to the Prophet he narrated it to his companions who crammed it like a parrot and didnt ask any question about it from the Prophet.

Was Quran in a book form from start? Or you believe there was this exercise of gathering verses from companions of Messenger Peace be upon him?

 

[litman]

All these are your opinions nithing backed by any real facts ... In my opinion enemy wants us to be separated from hadiths so that we stop beliving in whats next and more muslims will reject hazrat imam mehdi AS and hazrat issa AS and will eventually loose faith ...

All the problems you highlighted were also mentioned in hadiths including sects, fighting within muslims, shia sunni conflicts, rejections of mehdi AS ...

I have read sahih bukhari and yes it has other references as well but its not the core of the books and it does not make them fabricated at all ...

you are right its the agenda of the enemy to keep us divided in our religion and end time prophecies so that we don't put up a strong resistance as one ummah united under command of a single leader. there are scholars who are i think working for them like for example ghamidi. i generally like him for his views and approach but the day he spoke against 2nd coming of jesus i became suspicious about him. then i did my own analysis about his views and i came to the following conclusion.
a great educated scholar who rejects:
second coming of hazrat Esa AS
coming of imam mehdi
establishment of khilafa state for muslims at the end times.
preached muslims to accept and follow UNO (one world govt) despite its obvious injustices and silence about the muslim world. i remember the others keep on telling him that UNO is not doing justice and follows the commands of certain elite of the world but he kept on insisting on his point.
after keeping his above points in mind now i always listen to him with caution and his lectures about hazrat Esa seems totally illogical.

Yep wars in Muslims countries are not happening, no Muslims got massacred systematically, there no sects amongst Muslims .......... all these are my opinions, nothing backed by real facts. Shabash ay.



Let me ask you a very straight and direct question, it would offend you, but I have no other choice. I am sorry about this, it's not on purpose.

How willing are you to share your private life in a book? Would you or your family women be willing that they make narrations in a book about their private lives?



Was Quran in a book form from start? Or you believe there was this exercise of gathering verses from companions of Messenger Peace be upon him?

irrelevant point.

 

[The Accountant]

you are right its the agenda of the enemy to keep us divided in our religion and end time prophecies so that we don't put up a strong resistance as one ummah united under command of a single leader. there are scholars who are i think working for them like for example ghamidi. i generally like him for his views and approach but the day he spoke against 2nd coming of jesus i became suspicious about him. then i did my own analysis about his views and i came to the following conclusion.
a great educated scholar who rejects:
second coming of hazrat Esa AS
coming of imam mehdi
establishment of khilafa state for muslims at the end times.
preached muslims to accept and follow UNO (one world govt) despite its obvious injustices and silence about the muslim world. i remember the others keep on telling him that UNO is not doing justice and follows the commands of certain elite of the world but he kept on insisting on his point.
after keeping his above points in mind now i always listen to him with caution and his lectures about hazrat Esa seems totally illogical.


irrelevant point.

Yes actually man like Ghamdi are agents like Ibn-e-saba inserted into our ranks and files. They are intelligent people with a targeted and very precise agenda. Most of there statement almost 95% are correct and highly intellectual so that they can grab attention of power brokers and intelligencia of our society and they don't care about masses. Now for the 5% they are working on pushing their own agenda which is to convince Muslims that there is nothing named Hazrat Imam Mehdi AS and second coming of Jesus so that when the time came to follow their lead we don't recognize him and treat him as an imposter.

But we need to keep on gighting against this

 

[litman]

Let me ask you a very straight and direct question, it would offend you, but I have no other choice. I am sorry about this, it's not on purpose.

How willing are you to share your private life in a book? Would you or your family women be willing that they make narrations in a book about their private lives?

it is mentioned in Quran that for us muslims Prophet Muhammad SAW is the ideal and that means in every matter.as a leader, warrior, father, husband etc and the wives of the Prophet are the ideals for the muslim women. so some of the private matters of their lives are the matters which every muslim faces daily so we all need guidance about how Prophet used to do these things like e.g. prayer before having intercourse with wife, ghusal after doing intercourse, matters regarding periods in ladies which mostly were shared through wives of the Prophet, washroom and toilet manners.
people used to come to the Prophet and his wives regarding problems of their private lives. do you even know why the ayat "ya auratain tumhari khaitian hain ....." came in Quran. do you know the incident? a lady came and asked about the position of intercourse as people of madina under the influence of jews were of the opinion that intercourse from front is allowed only but muhajirs from makkah act differently.a muhair married to a lady from ansar and he tried to have intercourse in a different position. the lady got worried and came to the Prophet to ask about this seriously private matter and then the ruling came in Quran. there is not shyness in religion to know the truth. women even used to ask questions regarding their periods and cleanliness. now all these instructions are mentioned in hadiths and they should be . we dont have Prophet amongst us nor our ladies have guidance from the wives of the Prophet so from where we can get instructions about issues pertaining to private lives? what's allowed in islam and what is not?

 

[The Accountant]

Yep wars in Muslims countries are not happening, no Muslims got massacred systematically, there no sects amongst Muslims .......... all these are my opinions, nothing backed by real facts. Shabash ay.

I thought our topic was hadiths and not the civil war between Muslims. By the way I didn't get what are you trying to prove by referring to fighting within Muslims?

This is like I say US is super power and Sahih Hadiths are correct and as US is super power and I am right here therefore you have to accept that I am right that Sahih Hadith are also fact. Come on man, show some maturity and logic in your arguments.

Let me ask you a very straight and direct question, it would offend you, but I have no other choice. I am sorry about this, it's not on purpose.

How willing are you to share your private life in a book? Would you or your family women be willing that they make narrations in a book about their private lives?

No it will not offend me. Yes I will if I am given the role of leading the entire world and to teach them how to live the life and the very survival of my follower's dependant on following me then I will teach them each and everything even my private life.

We have our respect and differences with our elders but at the time of our marriage, our elder cousins, our uncles, mother and elder sisters and sometimes even father do teach us the responsibilities and complications of the wedding night. This is the tradition. Prophets and his followers treat their disciples like children and they teach them everything.

You are talking about people who actually present themselves as human shield in Ghazwa's and you are criticizing that to such a devoted person prophet will not share the preferred way of dealing with the wife?

Don't we have sex education compulsory even in today's world where private dealings are taught openly.

Was Quran in a book form from start? Or you believe there was this exercise of gathering verses from companions of Messenger Peace be upon him?

Don't ask me lame questions and don't try to create doubts in my mind. Now if you are challenging the written Quranic form, then how will you stop someone claiming that Prophet Muhammad SAW was not even a real person and all these are fabricated stories?

Now getting into your mind I think that you are a follower of the group send to destroy Muslim belief systems within and trying to remove spiritual values and believe only on scientific values that... believe only what one can get from his own senses rest is all questionable ...

 

[I.R.A]

Now if you are challenging the written Quranic form,

I am not challenging the written Quranic form, it's all in the books of traditions and narrations. That's why I asked you if you have read these books yourselves.

You are just defending something that you yourself has never studied in detail.

Now getting into your mind I think that you are a follower of the group send to destroy Muslim belief systems within and trying to remove spiritual values and believe only on scientific values that... believe only what one can get from his own senses rest is all questionable ...

Yes I am enemy, your enemy, your religion's enemy. Why ........ because I believe in Quran first and then anything that doesn't contradict Quran.

I had told you, you are not ready to have this discussion with me.

it is mentioned in Quran that for us muslims Prophet Muhammad SAW is the ideal and that means in every matter.as a leader, warrior, father, husband etc and the wives of the Prophet are the ideals for the muslim women. so some of the private matters of their lives are the matters which every muslim faces daily so we all need guidance about how Prophet used to do these things like e.g. prayer before having intercourse with wife, ghusal after doing intercourse, matters regarding periods in ladies which mostly were shared through wives of the Prophet, washroom and toilet manners.
people used to come to the Prophet and his wives regarding problems of their private lives. do you even know why the ayat "ya auratain tumhari khaitian hain ....." came in Quran. do you know the incident? a lady came and asked about the position of intercourse as people of madina under the influence of jews were of the opinion that intercourse from front is allowed only but muhajirs from makkah act differently.a muhair married to a lady from ansar and he tried to have intercourse in a different position. the lady got worried and came to the Prophet to ask about this seriously private matter and then the ruling came in Quran. there is not shyness in religion to know the truth. women even used to ask questions regarding their periods and cleanliness. now all these instructions are mentioned in hadiths and they should be . we dont have Prophet amongst us nor our ladies have guidance from the wives of the Prophet so from where we can get instructions about issues pertaining to private lives? what's allowed in islam and what is not?

Koi hall nai bai ........... carry on.

 

[litman]

I am not challenging the written Quranic form, it's all in the books of traditions and narrations. That's why I asked you if you have read these books yourselves.

You are just defending something that you yourself has never studied in detail.



Yes I am enemy, your enemy, your religion's enemy. Why ........ because I believe in Quran first and then anything that doesn't contradict Quran.

I had told you, you are not ready to have this discussion with me.



Koi hall nai bai ........... carry on.

off course i cant convince anyone who doesnt want to be convinced.it is just like so good bye .

 

[I.R.A]

off course i cant convince anyone who doesnt want to be convinced.it is just like so good bye .

Your arguments are not convincing enough, you are defending apparent insults thrown at respected honored personalities by presenting childish arguments. No one no matter how liberal he / she may be would be comfortable in letting their private life matters to be made public. You should study what Quran has to say about the companions of Messenger Peace be upon him and His wives.

And here we are talking about narrations that have only verbal sources, no written source. I don't even remember what my grandfather said, but afreen hy in logo kay jinhay apnay dadaa to kya dadaa kay pardadaa ki b zubani kehi hui batain yad hain.

 

[litman]

Your arguments are not convincing enough, you are defending apparent insults thrown at respected honored personalities by presenting childish arguments. No one no matter how liberal he / she may be would be comfortable in letting their private life matters to be made public. You should study what Quran has to say about the companions of Messenger Peace be upon him and His wives.

And here we are talking about narrations that have only verbal sources, no written source. I don't even remember what my grandfather said, but afreen hy in logo kay jinhay apnay dadaa to kya dadaa kay pardadaa ki b zubani kehi hui batain yad hain.

i even gave you reference of a quranic ayat and you dont want to accept it . its your own choice.you cant even understand that your dada pardada were not prophets and there words and actions were not even worthy of being memorized. as far as second coming of jesus is concerned one scholar talks only about it from quran but still stubborn people dont want to understand. i am not arguing with you any more so better do not reply. putting you on ignore list.bye.

 

[I.R.A]

i even gave you reference of a quranic ayat and you dont want to accept it . its your own choice.you cant even understand that your dada pardada were not prophets and there words and actions were not even worthy of being memorized. as far as second coming of jesus is concerned one scholar talks only about it from quran but still stubborn people dont want to understand. i am not arguing with you any more so better do not reply. putting you on ignore list.bye.

Narrated by Anas
The Prophet I used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 7 :

If this is your source and this what you defend .......... May ALLAH have mercy and guide you.

I told you people you haven't read these books yourselves and you are out defending them, just because molvi sb's every Friday sermon is 90% based on these.

 

[The Accountant]

So this is your basis of rejection of sahih hadith? That's hilarious ...

Ok assume you are a teacher and have two wives and one of your student who also has 2 wives but having trouble in dealing with them and asked you, sir, Ii also have two wives but both of them want me to spend eid night with me. What should I do in such a situation?

What will be your response to your student? Something like, no sorry I can't guide you on this, you have to find your own way of handling these personal matters, irrespective your one of the wife might ask for a divorce from you.

In reality, you have no idea how things were at that time.

It is all in history that limit for a person to be in war away from wife not more than 4 months was set by Hazrat Umar R.A. . He asked her daughter that for how many months a married woman can live without her husband while keeping hire desires in control. (dont remember the exact words)

And based on answer from her daughter he imposed a ban on staying in war without wife for more than 4 months.

This is all history but you are blind to see that...

Narrated by Anas
The Prophet I used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 7 :

If this is your source and this what you defend .......... May ALLAH have mercy and guide you.

I told you people you haven't read these books yourselves and you are out defending them, just because molvi sb's every Friday sermon is 90% based on these.