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Islamabad Dharna 2nd November-News, Updates And Discussions

If only someone could find a used T-90 , get some combination of SSG/Kung Fu Monk training , find a black tactical suit, A generally silenced arsenal and just go on an assassination rampage killing any and all we hear corrupt stories of both in and out of Uniforms.That may not be the change we need, but it is the change we deserve.
For those of you who have been following the exchange between Oz and myself over the past few months: I've posted check-able source for the histories and news I bring to the table here while Oz maintains that because a source is "Zionist" he doesn't have to accept it. He made a deliberate decision to place pride and ego over honesty and humanity. I pointed out then that this was the road to terrorism. And now he has indeed arrived.
 
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I just want Pakistan to get rid of Sharif and Bhutto dynasty. This family politics is cancer for Pakistan.

Hopefully someone in future can challenge them in election. The next election all depends on whether N league is able to purge electricity shortfall, if they do then it's hard to see Imran winning it that's why Imran is under immense pressure to remove Nawaz Sharif(by any means). Hoping for the better for 2023 election:D
 
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I just want Pakistan to get rid of Sharif and Bhutto dynasty. This family politics is cancer for Pakistan.
As I understand it, under Pakistani laws the head of a political party really is the head: politicians elected under his banner are responsible to him, not their constituents. That's why I class Pakistan's political system as a competitive oligarchy, rather than a representative democracy. It's a purely monarchical arrangement, hence family politics is the easiest route for the closest supporters of the head to pursue. So you might get rid of Sharif and Bhutto but until the laws are changed (or defied) I imagine you're likely to be stuck with dynasties forever.
 
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As I understand it, under Pakistani laws the head of a political party really is the head: politicians elected under his banner are responsible to him, not their constituents. That's why I class Pakistan's political system as a competitive oligarchy, rather than a representative democracy. It's a purely monarchical arrangement, hence family politics is the easiest route for the closest supporters of the head to pursue. So you might get rid of Sharif and Bhutto but until the laws are changed (or defied) I imagine you're likely to be stuck with dynasties forever.
This jew knows too much :butcher:
@The Sandman

Jokes aside saying what you said is unpopular among certain sections of society they start calling you pro army
 
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So, what is this Dharna about again? Or Anybody know what the PTI demands are?
 
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Look at this. Our corrupt haram khor Government seized trucks on gunpoint from these ordinary drivers and are holding their trucks and containers hostage. Haven't paid any compensation or even given food to the drivers but holding their containers and trucks as hostage. Crore rupees worth of goods are in these containers. In a nut shell, instead of PTI, PML-N Government successfully sealed off Rawalpindi and locked it down. Just hear the plight of the people.


Democracy means waiting for elections. Getting your voters to turn out and to beat the opponent candidates.

Democracy also means accountability and governance. Where does Democracy says that you can steal billions of dollars worth of taxpayers money, take it abroad and refuse to present yourself for accountability. All of this wouldn't had happened if Nawaz Sharif had offered himself for accountability. But since he knows that he is guilty of corruption, he rather destroy the country.
 
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I have been out of the loop for a while, can anyone tell me what this new dharna is about?
 
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But does army /Gen Raheel Sharif want this impression to be given to the public..tht this crackdown is happening because of their support to the govt? Lets assume, for a sec tht theres no deal(although i have full faith now..in abolities of ch nisar and SS) but just lets assume it....and govt is successful in giving the impression tht look..army is now with us...and whatever we do..is with army's support? Doesnt it damage armys image in the public?

We dont know what happened in the meeting... BUT it can also, be a sequel to the same dawn story... Maybe govt deliberately wants to give the impression publicly and especially to imran khan, tht army is with govt and its with their support we are doing this..so tht he loses hope...so maybe govt wants to deliberately defame the army in public's eyes?

Tht is why...its sooo important tht army / Gen Raheel Sharif come clean abt it.. They should somehow clarify their position tht where do they stand? Do they really support this crackdown? Because if they remain silent now, then this will be taken as truth /fact tht army has struck a deal / NRO with govt and they are supporting this crackdown...which surely isnt good for army's public image... So maybe they should make Gen asim bajwa do a press conference, on any other subject, lets say zarb e azb, in context of quetta attack, or with regards to border skirmishes with india, and ofcourse then questions wil be asked, and then they should clarify their position..

Because if they have really struck a deal with govt or not..or even if only this impression of crack happening because of their support, persists, its really bad....for their own image...because today every channel will be speculating abt a deal / NRO between govt and army for sure.... Lets see..what do they care more, for? Deal/ NRO with govt,(if it has happened ) or their own public image?

Wait... It seems tht deal has really been struck... On Parvez Rasheed ans .rao Tehseen.. Because until a day ago, Gen Amjad Shoaib said on tv..tht i know for a fact, tht army has given 4 names to govt on dawn issue.., after corps comm conference.......He was sure abt it... But now, everyone in media saying, tht yesterday army gave 2 names...acc to fereeha idrees, two names are pervez rasheed, and rao tehseen... So obviously the other two have been spared by army, whoever they were...and ofcourse, PM Nawaz and his princess also been spared..

Some clarity on issues discussed during meeting.

1 - COAS conveyed a strong msg that all the characters behind the fake story in Dawn news will be tried as per Army act. Govt. and PA both know who is the leader of traitors (a lady of course).

2 - COAS has cleared that the investigation report should be provided by interior ministry as promised with all the perpetrators names. Army will not take any action by itself. Interior ministry is not ready to include name of that lady in the report and says that if Army wants, it can arrest the lady. PA however doesn't know how to get that lady as it will give dying PML N a new life. Both parties are not ready to leave their positions as of now.

3 - Govt. however provided names of two ministers on which it doesn't have any issue and ready to identify them in the report. Although Army says that it needs complete report, we may see an action in the coming days. Govt. asked for relaxation of some days due to the current political situation. As per govt. naming and arresting two ministers will have a very bad impact on government position that they wouldn't be able to handle while dealing with pressure from PTI. Relaxation of some days delay in action against identified individuals was granted.

4 - In exchange of two people, govt requested full support of Army against PTI. The request was categorically rejected. It was made clear once again that Army will continue to act impartial even to the extent that it will close its eyes. Army wants govt. to handle the situation and is not interested in any role even if requested by govt (this lead to the over confidence we have been witnessing since the meeting was over).

5 - Ishaq dollar wanted to bring some budget issues (tried to bribe the chief), however, COAS postponed this discussion till more important issues (related to breach) are solved.

So no lollipops were accepted. However, important news is Army's impartiality in the current scenario.

Note: My own analysis of the situation that may change without prior notice ;)
 
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Democracy means waiting for elections. Getting your voters to turn out and to beat the opponent candidates.

That is what democracy means. It doesn't mean shutting down state capitals because you want to be in power.

Thats not democracy, that the election procedure. For your knowledge and others as well The Principles of Democracy are below

PRINCIPLES OF DEMOCRACY

From “Democracy for All,” Street Law, Inc.: http://www.streetlaw.org/democlesson.html

People from around the world have identified the basic principles, which must exist in order to have a democratic government. These principles often become a part of the constitution or bill of rights in a democratic society. Though no two democratic countries are exactly alike, people in democracies support many of the same basic principles and desire the same benefits from their government.

1. CITIZEN PARTICIPATION

2. EQUALITY

3. POLITICAL TOLERANCE

4. ACCOUNTABILITY

5. TRANSPARENCY

6. REGULAR FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS

7. ECONOMIC FREEDOM

8. CONTROL OF THE ABUSE OF POWER

9. BILL OF RIGHTS

10. ACCEPTING THE RESULTS OF ELECTIONS

11. HUMAN RIGHTS

12. MULTI PARTY SYSTEM

13. RULE OF LAW


1. Citizen Participation

One of the most basic signposts of a democracy is citizen participation in government. Participation is the key role of citizens in democracy. It is not only their right, but it is their duty. Citizen participation may take many forms including standing for election, voting in elections, becoming informed, debating issues, attending community or civic meetings, being members of private voluntary organizations, paying taxes, and even protesting. Participation builds a better democracy.

2. Equality

Democratic societies emphasize the principle that all people are equal. Equality means that all individuals are valued equally, have equal opportunities, and may not be discriminated against because of their race, religion, ethnic group, gender or sexual orientation. In a democracy, individuals and groups still maintain their right to have different cultures, personalities, languages and beliefs.

3. Political Tolerance

Democratic societies are politically tolerant. This means that while the majority of the people rule in a democracy, the rights of the minority must be protected. People who are not in power must be allowed to organize and speak out. Minorities are sometimes referred to as the opposition because they may have ideas which are different from the majority. Individual citizens must also learn to be tolerant of each other. A democratic society is often composed of people from different cultures, racial, religious and ethnic groups who have viewpoints different from the majority of the population. A democratic society is enriched by diversity. If the majority deny rights to and destroy their opposition, then they also destroy democracy. One goal of democracy is to make the best possible decision for the society. To achieve this, respect for all people and their points of view is needed. Decisions are more likely to be accepted, even by those who oppose them, if all citizens have been allowed to discuss, debate and question them.

4. Accountability

In a democracy, elected and appointed officials have to be accountable to the people. They are responsible for their actions. Officials must make decisions and perform their duties according to the will and wishes of the people, not for themselves.

5. Transparency

For government to be accountable the people must be aware of what is happening in the country. This is referred to as transparency in government. A transparent government holds public meetings and allows citizens to attend. In a democracy, the press and the people are able to get information about what decisions are being made, by whom and why.

6. Regular, Free and Fair Elections

One way citizens of the country express their will is by electing officials to represent them in government. Democracy insists that these elected officials are chosen and peacefully removed from office in a free and fair manner. Intimidation, corruption and threats to citizens during or before an election are against the principles of democracy. In a democracy, elections are held regularly every so many years. Participation in elections should not be based on a citizen's wealth. For free and fair elections to occur, most adult citizens should have the right to stand for government office. Additionally, obstacles should not exist which make it difficult for people to vote.

7. Economic Freedom

People in a democracy must have some form of economic freedom. This means that the government allows some private ownership of property and businesses, and that the people are allowed to choose their own work and labor unions. The role the government should play in the economy is open to debate, but it is generally accepted that free markets should exist in a democracy and the state should not totally control the economy. Some argue that the state should play a stronger role in countries where great inequality of wealth exists due to past discrimination or other unfair practices.

8. Control of the Abuse of Power

Democratic societies try to prevent any elected official or group of people from misusing or abusing their power. One of the most common abuses of power is corruption. Corruption occurs when government officials use public funds for their own benefit or exercise power in an illegal manner. Various methods have been used in different countries to protect against these abuses. Frequently the government is structured to limit the powers of the branches of government: to have independent courts and agencies with power to act against any illegal action by an elected official or branch of government; to allow for citizen participation and elections; and to check for police abuse of power.

9. Bill of Rights

Many democratic countries also choose to have a bill of rights to protect people against abuse of power. A bill of rights is a list of rights and freedoms guaranteed to all people in the country. When a bill of rights becomes part of a country's constitution, the courts have the power to enforce these rights. A bill of rights limits the power of government and may also impose duties on individuals and organizations.

10. Accepting the Results of Elections

In democratic elections, there are winners and losers. Often the losers in an election believe so strongly that their party or candidate is the best one, that they refuse to accept the results of the election. This is against democratic principles. The consequences of not accepting the result of an election may be a government that is ineffective and cannot make decisions. It may even result in violence which is also against democracy.

11. Human Rights

All democracies strive to respect and protect the human rights of citizens. Human rights mean those values that reflect respect for human life and human dignity. Democracy emphasizes the value of every human being. Examples of human rights include freedom of expression, freedom of association, freedom of assembly, the right to equality and the right to education.

12. Multi-Party System

In order to have a multi-party system, more than one political party must participate in elections and play a role in government. A multi-party system allows for opposition to the party, which wins the election. This helps provide the government with different viewpoints on issues. Additionally, a multiparty system provides voters with a choice of candidates, parties and policies to vote for. Historically, when a country only has one party, the result has been a dictatorship.

13. The Rule of Law

In a democracy no one is above the law, not even a king or an elected President. This is called the rule of law. It means that everyone must obey the law and be held accountable if they violate it. Democracy also insists that the law be equally, fairly and consistently enforced. This is sometimes referred to as "due process of law."

Source : http://www.lawanddemocracy.org/pdffiles/amazing.prin..pdf
 
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Crackdown forces PTI to cancel Islamabad 'warm-up' rally

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) has called off its warm-up rally which had been scheduled to take place in the federal capital on Saturday, advising party workers to evade arrests.

In order to flex its muscles and demonstrate its seriousness in taking on the government on November 2, the PTI had planned to organize a warm-up rally in the federal capital ahead of the 'Islamabad Lockdown' protest. However, the party changed its decision and cancelled the rally, owing to the government's recent crackdown against PTI workers and loyalists.

The rally was scheduled to commence from Bhara Kahu and end at Sector I-8 in Islamabad. Now, party chief Imran Khan has directed workers and supporters to avoid arrests and come out in defiance of the government on November 2. The PTI chief spoke to Geo News, stating that he would wait for the Islamabad High Court's decision.

A larger bench of the Supreme Court will hear the Panama Leaks case on Tuesday. The hearing will take place on November 1, a day before the expected 'Islamabad Lockdown' is expected to take place.

The bench that will hear the Panama Leaks case will be headed by Chief Justice Anwar Zaheer Jamali and Justice Asif Khosa, Justice Azmat Saeed, Justice Ameer Hani Muslim and Justice Aijaz ul Hasan will be part of the bench.


https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/160790-Crackdown-forces-PTI-to-cancel-Islamabad-warm-up-rally

@jaunty

About COAS i doubt if they will catch the real person the news will dry raat gayi baat gayi

@PakSword
 
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About COAS i doubt if they will catch the real person the news will dry raat gayi baat gayi

Yes you are right, PA doesn't know what to do to the real culprit who is a lady. Government is ready to go to any extent if Army takes action against that real culprit.

We have no idea what will happen if she is arrested by PA. PMLN will push the country into civil war and that lady will come out as a new leader even if it takes more than 5 years for her to return to politics. That's why they are not pushing government on PTIs current position on Panama issue. A little support will enable PMLN to play victim card. Very difficult position for PA.

PA that's why wants to let situation take its own course. They want IK to succeed, but they can't help him, and govt. knows this limitation of Army which is thinking to maintain its image of a professional force both internally and externally.

I and many other patriotic Pakistanis (such as @Farah Sohail) want PA to take action against the government but it seems this institution has decided to let Pakistani people decide their own future whether it takes 25 years for the people to realise their rights. This is the thinking of our current general and that's why our government, which knows that this cheif is extremely professional, wants to give extension in his service till after 2018 elections as it knows he will not let PA interfere in EC affairs in the next elections.

It's now us, the common Pakistanis, who have to fight for our rights on our own. Right now, it's the make our break situation. IK knows, PA knows and all other corrupt opposition parties know, who will be out of politics of IK is succeeded this time. But the problem is, the only force that doesn't know is Pakistani public, a big chunk of which still supports looters and murderers in this fake democracy.

We can now only pray to Allah to save Pakistan and give our people sanity to understand their power and their rights, and the ability to distinguish between their friends and enemies.

I am not in the country otherwise I would have definitely attended 2nd November's historic moments that will decide the future of Pakistan.
 
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PA that's why wants to let situation take its own course. They want IK to succeed, but they can't help him, and govt. knows this limitation of Army which is thinking to maintain its image of a professional force both internally and externally.
It seems this institution has decided to let Pakistani people decide their own future whether it takes 25 years for the people to realise their rights. This is the thinking of our current general and that's why our government, which knows that this cheif is extremely professional, wants to give extension in his service till after 2018 elections as it knows he will not let PA interfere in EC affairs in the next elections.

@bold.... ..if its true, then what will happen to Pakistan, in next 20-25 years? Can it even sustain...?where the econmic condition of Pak will go?

So it seems now...tht whatever they were even thinking abt backchannel pressure to judiciary, to punish Nawaz...and use other means to pressurise him....even tht is NOT under consideration, right now? Athough, to be honest...i dont think tht with even army's backing..judiciary would have done any good...because they are the most impotent instituition..... But it seems...tht army doesnt even want to push or back the judiciary at all... Or take tht route...They dont even want want to pressurise, insituitions to oust Nawaz, through other means...whether these instituitions will actually act on ..backing of army or not ..is another issue...but my point is..tht Army doesnt even want to even try tht route...

Army wants people of Pakistan, to suffer...whether for next 20-30 yrs..but they want to remain indifferent..knowing the current system does not allow people to realise their rights...(.and i have already written in my posts why people alone, in this system cant bring change) What will happen to Pakistan? How much situtaion of Pakistan can get worse, in these years, and can it even sustain? Well..this doesnt bother our army general...becaue...he wants to remain professional..Pakistan and its people can go to hell... Well, tht is another matter, tht protecting Pakistan and its people are main part of his profession..... We are not even asking for him to take dirct action against the governement..ie Martial law...but just behind the scene support to manipulate situation in people's favor..is tht too much to ask for?

If this is the thinking of Gen Raheel Sharif only, then i want him to retire, sooner than later......and if this is the thinking of all army generals, then God help Pakistan...i am amazed... Doesnt future of Pakistan and its people dont bother them at all? Is it only abt their own image? And what abt those statements which Gen Raheel Sharif gave...tht Pak army will support every action which ensures across the board accountability..? I have even pasted tht ISPR press release in my other thread abt NRO... What was tht statement for? Only public consumption? Did he not know..at tht time before giving statements..tht people will start expecting from him? Why did he give such statements..in the first place, if he couldnt deliever on tht? Just to fool people? And we are not even asking for his direct action/Martial law...comeon... Just behind the scene support..and tht he even cant give,..after all those loud statements regd accountability?
 
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If this is the thinking of Gen Raheel Sharif only, then i want him to retire, sooner than later......and if this is the thinking of all army generals, then God help Pakistan

Currently, this is the thinking of PA. PA always reflects the thinking of it's chief, but chief is influenced by his CCs. Our current chief wants to retire as the most professional COAS in the history of our country. But but but, you never know if the next Chief can maintain the patience. It takes only few moments when the decisions are changed.

Just pray to Allah that 2nd November turns out to be a fortunate day for our country. It's upto us. We should be ready to sacrifice whatever is required in these history defining moments.
 
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@PakSword last night...Dr Shahid Masood..gave another news too... He seemed confident abt his news...so i am thinking its true...

He said..tht breach of national security is not only confined to tht dawn story scandal... He said with reference tot tht meeting of army chief with CH Nisar, SS, and Ishaq dar....tht theres eveidence of audios, visuals of sensitive matters, going abroad, from PM House..and this is NOT related at all..to tht dawn story...its in addition to tht..so breach of national security is not limited to dawn scandal only, from PM house..its much more than tht..

If this is true...and Dr Shahid Masood insisted tht its true.....now we can imagine the huge threat, this government has become to the national security of Pak...you can watch...last nights live with dr shahid masood... He told abt this yesterday night..

Currently, this is the thinking of PA. PA always reflects the thinking of it's chief, but chief is influenced by his CCs. Our current chief wants to retire as the most professional COAS in the history of our country. But but but, you never know if the next Chief can maintain the patience. It takes only few moments when the decisions are changed.

Just pray to Allah that 2nd November turns out to be a fortunate day for our country. It's upto us. We should be ready to sacrifice whatever is required in these history defining moments.

So it all come down to his own image, his own family legacy?... Isnt it selfishness on his part....tht he wants to be seen as the most professional general....and so doesnt want to even manipulate things in People's favor? Is his own image, more important for him, than well being of Pak? Welfare of Pak and its People doesnt concern him, but only his own personal image... He doesnt care, if Pak can even sustain the current system, for next 20 yrs, but he wants to be seen as the most professional general..and hence doesnt want to even give backchannel support .? And then..why did he even give those statements regd acroos the board accountability..when he didnt want to follow them? Was those statements only to become herp..in public's eyes for the time being...without doing anything? Again i repeat..am not saying martial law...but manipulation on their part to support people and somehow oust this govt. I it too much to ask for? Unfortunately we can assume tht...PA will not support people to get rid of this system in any way..but will be supporting this status quo..by complete indifference and inaction....because they dont want to do anything..even through their backchannel support tht will oust this govt and system

I feel so disappointed and helpless right now..... If we become syria, in next 10-15 years(God forbid) ..then who will be responsible? Professionalism of our generals?
 
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