Islam and science: The road to renewal - ECONOMIST

[Mech]

Quote me a single example where it shows science and religion are two different paths and couldn't be mixed with each other.

I am a Muslim Alhamdulillah and a commercial pilot by profession. I am not against science and technology or research and development.
I have a spiritual mentor who invoke the interest for Sci-Tech in me. So, don't be over-smart and let us practice our deen.

Being a commercial pilot doesn't prove anything. Considering the time and age of today, your position is nothing more than that of an over-payed driver. During your (allegedly) coursework, you cover nothing more than navigation, meterology and a little bit about aircraft engines.

Even as me being a fairly religious person , i make sure to keep the spiritual to myself---to find solace when the stress gets to me. But when i get down to working, i make sure i keep the spiritual far far away. Like @FaujHistorian says, religion and science are quite incompatible. Let it be a personal thing, let it be your rock when the going gets tough. But beyond that, it serves no purpose in the quest for scientific growth and enlightenment.

 

[Azazel]

Quote me a single example where it shows science and religion are two different paths and couldn't be mixed with each other.

I am a Muslim Alhamdulillah and a commercial pilot by profession. I am not against science and technology or research and development.
I have a spiritual mentor who invoke the interest for Sci-Tech in me. So, don't be over-smart and let us practice our deen.

You don't need any example you just need common sense,A religion comes with ABSOLUTE statements, that neither can be proved or disproved, and science evolves from relative truths and statements, that can be testified and proven false (which means: science has to develop, in order to replace (partly) untrue theories, and replace them with better ones).

Science does not claim it has absolute knowledge on anything. Religion claims it has.

All scientific theories are in principle disprovable, and in the end all theories will be disproven (at least it can be shown there is a limiting case in which the theory does not work).

Religion can in principle not be disproven. Which does not contribute either to it's proof. It is also unprovable.

if something is neither provable nor disprovable, then it is useless.
It can only have value to people who prefer to be ignorant, and don't want to get into complicated knowledge, and prefer to believe in something that is disprovable.

Science is for people that realize that in order to acquire knowledge, some work (sometimes a LOT) has to be done! And even despite you put in a LOT of work, someone else my disproof all (or part) of your work! That is : you have to try even harder!

Religion is for people who claim to know EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY ("God created the world", for instance ) without having done any work to get to that opinion, and for which nobody can give any disproof. So it is a very safe position. You don't have to do WORK for entitling yourself an opinion on matters that seem important, and nobovy can force you to do some work for finding a better opinion, cause there lacks the ability to disproof you.

That's why science and religion are completely incompatible and cannot be mixed with each other.Of course you can choose to practice both, but it cannot be mixed together.

 

[XTREME]

you cover nothing more than navigation, metrology and a little bit about aircraft engines.

You better learn first how to spell METEOROLOGY then I will teach you LORAN and MLS.

 

[Mech]

You better learn first how to spell METEOROLOGY then I will teach you LORAN and MLS.

Oh well, its corrected. I keep referring to metrology ( science of measurement) even when i intend "meterology".

But i guess that takes your educational qualifications to a level lower than anticipated. By the way, when i want a radio operator, i'm sure i can hire one--without bothering to study how to operate one. Now, wouldn't it be a bit wiser if you decide to be less full of yourself and claim to be "full of scientific truths"---( according to islam, of-course )

 

[FaujHistorian]

Quote me a single example where it shows science and religion are two different paths and couldn't be mixed with each other.

I am a Muslim Alhamdulillah and a commercial pilot by profession. I am not against science and technology or research and development.
I have a spiritual mentor who invoke the interest for Sci-Tech in me. So, don't be over-smart and let us practice our deen.

there are two major examples.

1. Europeans had to get rid of their Christian Mullahs before they could progress scientifically
2. Muslim kingdoms lost their science when they allowed Mullahs to dictator the rationality out of the society.


Mob Faith in, means rationality out.

If on the other hand faith remains at personal level, then one could see that rationality can exist in that "individual".


If on the other hand Islamists take over, faith no longer remains individual.

It becomes faith by a mob.

And then my friend Christians and Islamists cannot coexist with science.


Hope you see the difference now.


nothing personal .

Thank you

 

[eddieInUK]

Sit down and do research, no need to show. Muslims used to create a lot of things but most of the innovation are done in westerner countries.

 

[Kompromat]

Offtopics = Automatic infractions

 

[scorpionx]

Sit down and do research, no need to show. Muslims used to create a lot of things but most of the innovation are done in westerner countries.

Nobody can beat the ancient Arabs and Chinese. But west was much more smarter.

 

[l3hdf]

Fauji Saahab you are a light that shines bright. Lets hope more people in our subcontinent and elsewhere start to see things the way they are as you do.

Needless to say, the scientific achievements I have read about in the Muslim world, especially Persia, were great for their time. But the very nature of science, as someone already alluded to, is fluid (forgive the poor pun), and not static (again). The beauty of science (as per human knowledge) is that it goes through constant positive change, and adapts to tested and proven findings, becoming more and more precise as time goes on.

Even though I am not in this field per se, I respect it immensely in that what little I have studied of it has inspired a great deal of awe in me, teaching me to be deeply self-critical and relentless in search of truth. If only people understood that science is not anti-God, anti-religion or any other personal beliefs. It is only pro-truth in the materially verifiable sense, and one may have any personal beliefs but still be a great scientist, so long as those beliefs don't interfere with the scientific process and objective, critical thought.

Just to qualify this opinion, and I hope it doesn't sound paradoxical, but I believe as many do that God is the originator of all that exists. But you can still believe in hard science and it need not contradict or conflict with that belief. That is the beauty and complexity of His creation.

 

[Gentelman]

You don't need any example you just need common sense,A religion comes with ABSOLUTE statements, that neither can be proved or disproved, and science evolves from relative truths and statements, that can be testified and proven false (which means: science has to develop, in order to replace (partly) untrue theories, and replace them with better ones).

Science does not claim it has absolute knowledge on anything. Religion claims it has.

All scientific theories are in principle disprovable, and in the end all theories will be disproven (at least it can be shown there is a limiting case in which the theory does not work).

Religion can in principle not be disproven. Which does not contribute either to it's proof. It is also unprovable.

if something is neither provable nor disprovable, then it is useless.
It can only have value to people who prefer to be ignorant, and don't want to get into complicated knowledge, and prefer to believe in something that is disprovable.

Science is for people that realize that in order to acquire knowledge, some work (sometimes a LOT) has to be done! And even despite you put in a LOT of work, someone else my disproof all (or part) of your work! That is : you have to try even harder!

Religion is for people who claim to know EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY ("God created the world", for instance ) without having done any work to get to that opinion, and for which nobody can give any disproof. So it is a very safe position. You don't have to do WORK for entitling yourself an opinion on matters that seem important, and nobovy can force you to do some work for finding a better opinion, cause there lacks the ability to disproof you.

That's why science and religion are completely incompatible and cannot be mixed with each other.Of course you can choose to practice both, but it cannot be mixed together.

Science is religion in Islam...
Modern science is all based on Quran...
Science can't disprove any of the thing written in Quran.
Quran is a book which state to think how all these things happened.....
and in case of Quran it challenge you to disprove anything of it till this world is in it state....
and it also challenges you to create three verses like Quran.....
if you had read quran you would have known that Quran is all science and all about human beings.....

 

[Gentelman]

Nobody can beat the ancient Arabs and Chinese. But west was much more smarter.

History is an annoying subject for you i suppose.isn't it??
Most precise book of World's history says that having bath in west was not considered good....
when Spain was recaptured first order was to destroy barber and bath shops.....
there was not anything known as reading....
all these things gone through Muslims to the west...
and now west there are also many muslims of locals....

 

[FaujHistorian]

1. Science is religion in Islam...
2. Modern science is all based on Quran...
3. Science can't disprove any of the thing written in Quran.
4. Quran is a book which state to think how all these things happened.....
5. and in case of Quran it challenge you to disprove anything of it till this world is in it state....
and it also challenges you to create three verses like Quran.....
6. if you had read quran you would have known that Quran is all science and all about human beings.....

Most respectfully Sir,

Let's pick the #6 first.

Millions and millions of Muslims have been reading Quran, and not just reading but remembering this holy book by heart (That includes pretty much all the member of my family).

Honestly, after all that reading, and learning by heart, none of the scientific theories have come out from any verse in Quran in the last 500+ years.

Care to explain why?

Can you quote one research paper (peer reviewed) that says, oh well Mr. Watson, we have made this wonderful discovery based on verse xyz of Quran. Here, see? Here it is. Why can't you see? You probably need new glasses.


Us Muslims have a bad habit of stealing discoveries of others and saying Oh Abdullah, this thing is in Quran also.

But if it was, why the heck Abdullah didn't discover it, and Einstein did?

Do you have to be Einstein to understand this basic fact?


And

Oh by the way,

why on earth you mix Quran (that is to be true forever) with science that changes every day?


Why? oh Why?


So I urge you not to drag Quran through mud of science.

Quran serves spiritual purposes

Science? Well leave the darn science to its own shenanigans please


Thank you

 

[scorpionx]

Religion is for people who claim to know EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY ("God created the world", for instance ) without having done any work to get to that opinion, and for which nobody can give any disproof. So it is a very safe position. You don't have to do WORK for entitling yourself an opinion on matters that seem important, and nobovy can force you to do some work for finding a better opinion, cause there lacks the ability to disproof you.

That's why science and religion are completely incompatible and cannot be mixed with each other.Of course you can choose to practice both, but it cannot be mixed together.

I beg to differ here. Religion is not for the people who claim to know everything but for the people who seek to know truth in other word everything. This is what the sages are doing for years after years. To experience the truth is their sole motto.The kind of investigation and reasoning we apply to science and to the outer knowledge, let it be applied to the science of religion too. If that investigation disapproves my religion let me get ready to throw away my superstitions and useless beliefs.
The urge for every scientific invention is just the same as the urge to discover the truth. The only difference is in the later method people uses their mind and inner senses to investigate the truth that science is still working to define. Both can move parallel without any clashes if we leave our pride and complacency of this modern world for a moment.

History is an annoying subject for you i suppose.isn't it??
Most precise book of World's history says that having bath in west was not considered good....
when Spain was recaptured first order was to destroy barber and bath shops.....
there was not anything known as reading....
all these things gone through Muslims to the west...
and now west there are also many muslims of locals....

Perhaps you got me wrong. I said Ancient Arabs and Chinese were master of innovation. Sorry for your inconvenience.
PS: History has always been my favorite subject and I will always be an obedient student of it.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I beg to differ here. Religion is not for the people who claim to know everything but for the people who seek to know truth in other word everything. This is what the sages are doing for years after years. To experience the truth is their sole motto.The kind of investigation and reasoning we apply to science and to the outer knowledge, let it be applied to the science of religion too. If that investigation disapproves my religion let me get ready to throw away my superstitions and useless beliefs.
The urge for every scientific invention is just the same as the urge to discover the truth. The only difference is in the later method people uses their mind and inner senses to investigate the truth that science is still working to define. Both can move parallel without any clashes if we leave our pride and complacency of this modern world for a moment.......t.

Who can disagree with an individual's search for truth in religion or science or for that matter any human endeavor.

But this thread is not talking about that kind of search.

This thread in fact is talking about Collective aka Mob-religion and its incompatibility with "search for truth".

Any mob-religion sets up strict boundaries for its members. If you leave the boundary you are kicked out of the faithfuls' company.


I hope it now clarifies things.


peace

 

[scorpionx]

Who can disagree with an individual's search for truth in religion or science or for that matter any human endeavor.

But this thread is not talking about that kind of search.

This thread in fact is talking about Collective aka Mob-religion and its incompatibility with "search for truth".

Any mob-religion sets up strict boundaries for its members. If you leave the boundary you are kicked out of the faithfuls' company.


I hope it now clarifies things.


peace

Thank you for the kind clarification. I just felt little difference of opinion with Azazel's views and tried to explain it.