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Islam and science: The road to renewal - ECONOMIST

Okay then, the sodium ions traveling along the axon initiating the -60mv in the Na+\K+ATPase pump, I have been having trouble keeping the electrical signal from voiding down the fibers to tech the amplifier. I tried voided fiber but to no avail...... Okay I reall don't have any questions as I already know everything there is to know regarding this thing just wanted to talk jargin a little.

But really the part where we had to turn a -60mv chemical conduction electric impulse into a viable electrical signal was really tough. What are you working on currently?
@Mosamania Hate neuro sciences! but hmmmmm.....

I work on plants but have done on cancer studies at molecular level....Not much hands on more theoretical which was not useful for me!

I improve crops no I am not a biotechnologist though I have a MSc in that area ...I study Genomics of plants and look for canndidate genes which would interest people

What are your areas of interests?

@gubbi I study genetics or genomics...Depending on the funding :enjoy:
 
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How does attacking someone on his credentials refutes the contents of the article? Point out the parts where you disagree. Dispute the given facts. Counter the arguments, if you have a different opinion. But don't attack the messenger for doing his job as a journalist.
@Cloakedvessel I do not like how journalists twist scientific facts and promote themselves!

The issue here is not if journalism meets the scientific criteria to be considered as science, but if there is a field of tension between Islam and science.
Simple nope! Islam PROMOTES us to use our senses and explore!

And given the underachievement in science by Muslims, the cited scientists sound more than plausible in their observations.
Please explain further what and why you say that?

What would you have told the reporter about the subject at hand?
People do whole degrees research about the subject in hand and by putting it in a simple form of paragraphs shows the lack of understanding of the concept! I can easily explain if you ask...I am not going to be a textbook and write paras after paras so that in the end no one reads it!

What's wrong with evolutionists?
Tell me what is right about them? They have been holding on to a theory and teaching it as fundements! THAT itslef is SCIENTIFICALLY wrong!

In science you have a theory and then you prove it is right....By hanging in the middle for some hundreds of years and then blind folding the world and explaining it as ACTUAL fact is disgraceful!
 
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Now I wonder if you really are the scientist you claimed to be.

In science, theory explains facts. Not taking facts to support a theory. You got it backwards.
@gambit Sorry I am a little confused right now....

I said
In science you have a theory and then you prove it is right....

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...-road-renewal-economist-17.html#ixzz2LLFJ7S1s

Why on earth did you say taking facts to support a theory?

You twisted my words! :angry:
 
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Who the heck takes facts and proves a theory?!

Well, unless for SOME scientist you take a theory of religion and ponder on facts such as creation and prove the theory...make sense?
 
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Please explain further what and why you say that?

Science and religion can go very well together, but only when scientists keep their religion out when they conduct research and vice versa, when religious authorities are prepared not to interfere in science.

Muslim apologists very often state that there are fewer conflicts between the Qur'an and science than the Christian faith. Yet at the same time many (most?) Muslims reject human evolution. And not on empirical provable grounds, but because the holy scripture claims otherwise (or they think it claims that).

The question is whether Islam is compatible with science and the answer is: maybe, but that is not the practice, this is not what we're seeing today in the world. Muslim countries do not produce important scientific insights. The interest only goes out to copying of Western technology. But that is not the same as to stimulate science. The essence of science is the freedom to ask critical questions, even if that goes against religious doctrines. And that freedom can hardly be found in Muslim countries.

It is the reality of today that Islamic countries are barely catching up with the scientific progress that the West has made. That's not because of 600 years of political instability. Europe at that time was also constantly at war with itself but it took the lead. One of the main reasons for this delay is that the Islamic world does not widely accept the idea that science is free from the domain of religion.


Tell me what is right about them? They have been holding on to a theory and teaching it as fundements! THAT itslef is SCIENTIFICALLY wrong!

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this sounds?

Do you understand that the label "theory" just indicates that years of attempts at falsification have not rejected the basic idea?

Calling a hypothesis a "theory" is one of the greatest compliments a hypothesis can get. You can't do much better in science. Unless the hypothesis is so fruitful and successful in its elucidation that it can grow into a paradigm. A framework from which your science operates, in this case biology. And that is the case with the theory of evolution.

In science you have a theory and then you prove it is right....By hanging in the middle for some hundreds of years and then blind folding the world and explaining it as ACTUAL fact is disgraceful!

You are aware that the modern theory of evolution goes far beyond what Darwin published 150 years ago?

Today we speak of modern evolutionary synthesis, where the ideas of Darwin that survived critical research, Mendel's work with respect to genes, modern genetic research and concepts such as genetic drift have been brought together into what is now seen as the theory of evolution.
 
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@gambit Sorry I am a little confused right now....
So am I.

Why on earth did you say taking facts to support a theory?

You twisted my words! :angry:
I twisted nothing...

When you said this...

In science you have a theory and then you prove it is right....

It is the complete opposite of what true science is all about.

A 'hypothesis' is at best an introduction to what is suspected of certain phenomena and/or chain of events. When that phenomena and/or chain of events have been thoroughly studied, that hypothesis can either be discarded or elevated to become a 'theory'. In other words, theory explains observed and analyzed facts.

So even if we demote evolution down to hypothesis, it is still a far better suspicion of how life came to be on Earth than of the many unscientific claims from the diverse religions on the same suspicion.
 
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By the book

Science of the kind practised at SESAME throws up few challenges to Muslim doctrine (and in many cases is so abstruse that religious censors would struggle to understand it). But biology—especially with an evolutionary angle—is different. Many Muslims are troubled by the notion that humans share a common ancestor with apes. Research published in 2008 by Salman Hameed of Hampshire College in Massachusetts, a Pakistani astronomer who now studies Muslim attitudes to science, found that fewer than 20% in Indonesia, Malaysia or Pakistan believed in Darwin’s theories. In Egypt it was just 8%.

Can we say the theory of evolution is the last nail in the coffin for Abrahamic religions? It's an unacceptable reality that these religions can never come to terms with.
 
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Debate on Islam and evolution has to be called off after revolt by student societies

Muslim opposition highlights growing influence of creationism and literalist interpretations of the Koran


Organisers behind a British conference on Islam and evolution say they nearly had to cancel the event after receiving a torrent of opposition from Muslim students at one of the country’s top scientific universities, The Independent has leanred.

The Deen Institute, a Muslim debating forum which promotes critical thinking, had hoped to hold a conference entitled “Have Muslims misunderstood evolution?” early next year. Among the speakers invited to attend included Muslim scientists, imams who have promoted the compatibility of Islam and evolution as well as those who preach a form of Islamic creationism.

The initial plan was to hold the event next month at Imperial College London, one of the country’s foremost universities for scientific exploration and debate, in cooperation with the local Islamic student society. But the Deen Institute said it was forced to pull out when it became clear that opposition to the event from supporters of creationism began mounting. It is now being held without input from any Muslim student society at Logan Hall, a conference centre owned by the University of London.

“We eventually had to give up of getting any support from student societies because it was seen as simply too controversial,” Adam Deen, co-founder of the institute, told The Independent. Deen, who describes himself as a “conservative Muslim” who encourages critical thinking, said he was surprised to receive such opposition at a place of scientific study, particularly as he had made sure to invite all sides of the debate including those who preach creationism.

“It’s symptomatic of a bigger problem in the Muslim world where people representing practical Muslims have to be seen to be more literalist,” he said. “It’s almost like there’s an intellectual mafia movement who won’t allow any freedom of thought.”

Usman Siddiqui, president of Imperial’s Islamic student society, insisted that they were unable to co-host the event for “logistical reasons” rather than ideological ones.

“I did not say that Imperial ISoc have no qualms with the event - it's just that we did not reach the stage where we were to make that decision,” he said. “They wanted to use Imperial as a venue, it didn't work out, and now they have a new venue.”

However it is clear that opposition to the event has been increasing ever since the Deen Institute began publicising it. One source involved with preparations said: “As soon as it went live I was inundated with complaints. It’s sad because student societies should be desperate to host this kind of debate.”

Mr Deen’s public Facebook account illustrates many of the concerns people raised. In one comment Mohammad Ali Harrath, the founder of the highly influential Islam Channel, wrote: “This debate is a big mistake. It is shifting debate to make it a Muslim issue rather than an issue between atheists and creationists.”

Another commenter, Zeshan Sasjid, added: “Evolution is not Islamic. Prophet Adam did not have parents. A Muslim can’t believe that Prophet Adam.”

However others criticised their fellow believers for being overly literalist and shunning scientific research.

“If our faith is strong we can only gain from looking at, hearing and understanding difference,” wrote Amina Crashaw. “If this were not truth I would not be Muslim. Understanding difference include being open to finding something new to learn from the Qur’an. Not new facts but new depth.”

The row is informative because it illustrates some of the controversies currently occupying the Muslim world about the compatibility of science and whether critical thinking is being closed down by more literalist schools of thought.

Muslims believe the Qur’an is the indisputable word of God and therefore any scientific discovery which risks proving something within their holy book as incorrect is highly controversial, particularly among the more literalist schools of thought. For example, most Muslim scholars have long accepted scientifically proven cosmology but even up until his death in 1999, Sheikh Ibn Baaz, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, continued to insist that the Sun revolved around the Earth based on his interpretation of Islamic texts.

Until recently evolution caused little friction with the majority of Muslim jurists and academics broadly accepting Darwin’s findings – albeit in a theistic sense. But in recent years creationism – much of it inspired by similar Christian right movements in the United States – has begun to receive wider acceptance.

Much of this newfound enthusiasm for attacking evolution has been pushed by Harun Yahya, a prominent Turkish theologian whose writings have been seized upon by literalists and those who exhibit a theological suspicion of science. Dr Oktar Babuna, a representative from the Harun Yahya movement, is scheduled to speak at the conference alongside Shaikh Yasir Qadhi, an influential imam who accepts evolution at a micro level but refuses to countenance the idea that man evolved from anything other than Adam himself.

Two Muslim scientists, American biologists Ehab Abouheif and Fatimah Jackson, will also speak alongside Usama Hasan, a British imam who preaches the commonly held scientific view that man is descended from ape-like forebears.

Hasan’s inclusion is particularly controversial because he enraged Muslim literalists in his own mosque in Leyton, east London, when he began preaching about evolution and criticised literalists for having a “children's madrasa-level understanding” of science compared to their Islamic forebears who once used to lead the world in such fields. The arguments eventually became so intense he was eventually forced out by hardliners.

In a recent interview with Forbes magazine following a similar conference in the United States, biologist Dr Abouheif explained why he felt it was important to begin challenging literal creationists.

“There’s a lot at stake here because it’s well beyond evolution,” he said. “If it’s not about the evidence, if you reject science, if you reject evolution as a science and you’re not willing to listen to evidence, then that means that for all of science, when it comes into contact with sociological, political conflicts, then you won’t believe it either.”

He added: “What got me out of my seat, my lab chair … is my want of the Muslim world to become innovators and to share in being leaders. In technology and innovation, and share in production. And not just be consumers.”

Debate on Islam and evolution has to be called off after revolt by student societies - Home News - UK - The Independent


Muslims and Evolution in the 21st Century: A Galileo Moment?


Early last month, a conference was held in London, entitled "Have Muslims Misunderstood Evolution?" under the auspices of The Deen Institute, an organization which aims at promoting engagement between the Islamic tradition and modernity. The event sparked off a debate on social media and op-ed columns regarding the place of evolution in the Islamic worldview.

The conference, whose lectures were recently published online, brought together scientists like Prof. Ehab Abouheif and Prof. Fatimah Jackson with theologians like Dr Usama Hasan and the prominent Shaykh Yasir Qadhi. Also invited was Dr. Oktar Babuna, representing the hardcore creationist ideas of Harun Yahya, who is deemed by many Muslim scholars to be a charlatan. Sadly, by the end of the day, Babuna was reduced to such a laughing stock that even Qadhi distanced himself from him.

Abouheif and Jackson made their case for evolution in a style reminiscent of the bestselling and quite compelling book, "The Language of God," by devout Christian geneticist Francis Collins. Babuna's creationist ideas were roundly rejected by all the other panellists. What I found most interesting, however, was the theological discussion.

Although Qadhi, who is more of a specialist in theology than Hasan, soundly rebutted Hasan's apparent suggestion that Muslim scholars had discovered and believed in modern evolutionary theory centuries ago, his response that scientific evolution and Islamic theology are at loggerheads is considerably overstated. For one, Hasan pointed out that preeminent center for Sunni Islamic learning, al-Azhar University, holds that the theory of evolution does not fundamentally contradict Islamic belief. In addition, the influential, if controversial, Egyptian scholar, Yusuf al-Qaradawi, stated three years ago on a special Arabic Al Jazeera show dedicated to this subject that even if evolution were true, there is no reason for it to conflict with Islamic theology. Some conservative Muslims have attacked (in Arabic) al-Qaradawi for his statements.

My own suggestion to Muslims grappling with such an issue is to recognize that when it comes to what we believe, science and religion address two kinds of truth: empirical and revealed. Empirical (observation-based) truth is the stuff of science. It's contingent on our sense perception, and humanity's current state of knowledge. It's truth with a lower-case t. It's relative to what the human senses can access at a given point in time, and makes no claims to being absolute. This is not to belittle it, as most empirical truths are what we consider facts, like the fact that the spherical earth goes around the sun.

Revealed truth, by contrast, is based upon revelation which, if you believe it, is Truth with a capital T. For the believer, it is absolute, not relative. Our knowledge of empirical truth can and has improved over time; just as the once held 'fact' that the sun goes around the earth has been corrected with the passage of time. No reasonable person believes this 'fact' today; though the ancients may have been justified in thinking it was genuinely scientific. Revealed truth, on the other hand, claims to be constant, absolute, and unchangeable.

Problems of this kind are nothing new for Muslim theologians. An example is the statement of the Prophet that: after the sun sets, it goes to the Throne of God and prostrates, before rising again from the East. This statement is recorded in multiple collections of Prophetic statements including the respected Sunni collections of Bukhari and Muslim. Muslims additionally believe that such statements from the Prophet constitute revealed truth. The reality is that virtually no Muslim theologian has ever taken such revealed truths to be statements of empirical truth. In such an instance, a Muslim will believe in the revealed truth, but not think this means that the empirical truth is wrong. Rather, the two kinds of truth address different domains, the moral and the empirical (what is observable through the senses). The first addresses what Muslims should believe as a matter of faith, and how they should behave; and the other is whatever a reasonable person believes about the observable world based on the current state of human knowledge.

How does this relate to the theory of evolution for Muslims?

I'm not arguing for the truth of evolution in this piece, for that I recommend Collins' book mentioned above. I'm only presenting how, if it were deemed empirically true, as it nearly unanimously is in the scientific community, it should cause Muslims no trouble with respect to their traditional Islamic beliefs. If the Qur'an appears to be making empirical statements about creation, like the Prophetic statement above, it doesn't need to be understood in an everyday literal sense, even if we hold it to be True in an metaphysical sense. Many Muslims will be familiar with the fact that same logic applies to the many seemingly anthropomorphic descriptions of God in the Qur'an.

Some commentators have described this conference as marking a Galileo moment for Muslims. I would argue that this isn't quite the case, as Islamic religious authority is decentralized, and there is no formal 'religious establishment' that has binding authority over Muslims. With even the historic center for Sunni learning, al-Azhar University, and influential scholars like al-Qaradawi accepting that Muslims could believe in evolution--though neither seems to--it doesn't seem like this is a serious issue in theology. Rather it seems to be so only in the popular Muslim consciousness. As Muslims continue in the path of learning, as encouraged by the Prophet, I hope that a more nuanced attitude to this issue will emerge at a popular level, and then we can focus on more important discussions like that of climate change or alleviating poverty. This conference was an important step in that direction.

Usaama al-Azami: Muslims and Evolution in the 21st Century: A Galileo Moment?
 
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Military Technology: Where do Muslims Stand?

The US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has been assigned the task to build a new class of laser weapons 10 times smaller and lighter than current lasers of similar power to protect the US aircraft from ground-based threats, a development, scientists believe, would change the conventional warfare to a huge level, if not completely.

“This is a huge development. It would certainly give an edge to the US armed forces in conventional and unconventional warfare”, Dr. Ata-ur-Rahman, a renowned Pakistani scientist, and a former minister for science and technology, told OnIslam.net.

Dr. Rahman, who is the first scientist from the Muslim world to have won the prestigious UNESCO Science Prize (1999) in the 35-year old history of the prize, says that the latest development will change the course of wars being fought in present age.

“They (laser weapons) do not require big planes, but they can be carried by small planes, and cause a huge damage to in the air and on ground”, he explained.

“This achievement has once again proved that the United State’s sole super power status is just because of its perpetual advancement in the “wondrous world” of science and technology”, Rahman, who has also served as coordinator general of COMSTECH, an organization set up by the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation) in early 1980s to promote collaboration among OIC member states in the field of science and technology, remarked.

The 150-kilowatt lasers are expected to be tested by 2014. Such lasers represent part of DARPA's High Energy Liquid Laser Area Defense System. They would mainly aim to shoot down rockets, surface-to-air missiles or other weapons that threaten aircraft during the ground-based field testing scheduled for 2014. But the lasers could also possibly act as offensive weapons against some ground targets.

DARPA Captive Air Amphibious Transporters (CAAT) For Disaster Relief - YouTube

“Nothing is final or ultimate in the field of science and technology. Scientists may come up with something much better and advanced. But, no doubt, till today, this is a wonderful achievement”, Rahman, who was awarded a Doctorate of Science by University of Cambridge in 1987 and Doctorate of Education by Coventry University, UK, in 2007, observed.

The military testing included much larger laser weapons, such as the megawatt-class laser weapon that flew aboard a modified Boeing 747 during the cancelled Airborne Laser Test Bed program (1 megawatt is equivalent to 1,000 kilowatts). By comparison, the smaller 150-kilowatt laser could enable smaller military aircraft or even drones to carry it as a weapon.

The Navy's interest in the 150-kilowatt laser weapon involves testing it against surface ship targets before the end of 2014. Past Navy tests have already shown how lasers can shoot down aerial drones and disable small boats.

Where Do Muslims Stand?

As the Western World has been climbing the stairs of progress by beaming the science and technology for the last 500 years, the Muslim World still stands almost ignorant of the fact that their least importance to science and technology has rendered them begging for everything from the West- right from small surgical equipment to latest jet fighters-.

Muslims make up one-fifth of the world’s population and in terms of income, it represents one-fifteenth of the global GNP, but their share in the field of science and technology is almost negligible.

“I am very sorry to say, but this is a bitter truth, that science and technology has never been priority of the Muslim world for last 500 years. And the result of this criminal negligence is evident. We stand nowhere except seeking the West’s help in every sector of life”, Rahman deplored.

Muslims have a proud past vis-à-vis science and technology from 750 A.D to 1100 A.D, onwards but today science is one of the most neglected thing in the lands of Islam.

Pakistan is the sole nuclear Muslim state out of seven declared nuclear nations, whereas no Muslim University is included in the first 100 best universities in the world.

“The Muslim rulers have to understand- the sooner the better- that the honorable exit of their dependence on the West is not possible without the strength of science and technology”, Rahman, who served as minister for science and technology from 2000 to 2002 remarked.

Hafiz Naeem-ur-Rehman, an engineer and religious scholar agrees. “Knowledge is the lost treasure of the Muslim Ummah. Wherever it is found, we must get it.” Hafiz Naeem, who got his civil engineering degree from NED University of Engineering and Technology.

Recalling the history of his university, Hafiz Naeem said the university like many others in Pakistan was set up the Parsi community before partition of India.

He quoted the words of Dr. Muhammad Aijazul Khatib of Damascus University that "In contrast to 250 verses which are legislative, some 750 verses of the Holy Quran - almost one-eighth of it - exhort the believers to study Nature to reflect, to make the best use of reason and to make the scientific enterprise an integral part of Community's life."

The Noble Prophet Mohammad (Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him) says that it is the bounden duty of every Muslim - man and woman - to acquire knowledge.

“Until, the Muslim Ummah follows the saying of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in connection with acquisition of knowledge, it cannot revert to its lost glory. Allah does not change the condition of those who do not change it by themselves”, Naeem maintained.

Rahman, however, is happy with a mild realization by some Islamic countries that have increased the budget for science and technology.

“By the year 2000, around 0.2 per cent of the total GDP of 57 Islamic countries was allocated for science and technology, while in 2012, it shot up to 0.5 per cent of the total GDP, almost 150 per cent increase in allocation”, Rahman added that the increase, though, is still far away from the allocations made by the western countries in this regard.

“In some countries, there is a realization now that the destination of self-dependence and progress cannot be achieved without science and technology”, he said.

He, however, regretted that although the COMSTECH has been carrying out different science and technology related programs in 40 Islamic countries, the funding from member states is limited hampering the objectives of the organization.

Military Technology: Where do Muslims Stand? - Technology - Health & Science - OnIslam.net
 
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That is your interpretation why muslim lacks so much behind in science and technology: materialism???

OMG, I thought that is a joke.

Sir in first 600 years of Islam those Muslims who made progress in science were also very fundamentalist Muslims many were also teachers of Quran and Hadees and also developed Sciences further but than Muslim started deviating and they started getting involved in money issues spending on clothes and women and music and other things rather than focusing on spread of Science and Islamic subjects Quran and Hadees and fiqh and reach their low in 20th century but we now we are trying to get up but it will take time so we have to be patient and focused
 
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