ISIS declares ‘caliphate’

[KingMamba]

We need reform, not Caliph.

Islam is becoming the religion of terrorists. If this is case, it wont be a healthy society.

We cannot reform these sects that are quick to violence, we outnumber them so we must kill them. Beat them at their own game, that is the only way.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Ok but I am still your Khalifa.

Saying Hazrat Khalifa Sahib please.

p.s. Just FYI Khalifah is the guy who cuts my hair.

 

[al-Hasani]

Pretty much all Arab countries are being ruled by foreigners albeit indirectly through control using military, or economic or both.

This is why I say it is not good to think along Arab vs. Ajam lines.

It will not produce good outcome! intellectually!

By that logic your country is ruled too and the entire Muslim world and non-Western world outside of China and a few select others.

I think that my points are very clear and easy to understand so I am not sure what you are trying to say here?

Direct rule and influence are two very different things.

 

[FaujHistorian]

By that logic your country is ruled too and the entire Muslim world and non-Western world outside of China and a few select others.
.

Yeap.

I guess you got it now.

 

[KingMamba]

Saying Hazrat Khalifa Sahib please.

p.s. Just FYI Khalifah is the guy who cuts my hair.

LOL some people use it as a surname I guess. Actually Khalifah is the accurate term, I see many people say Calipha that is the female derivative for the wife of the Khalifah.

 

[al-Hasani]

Yeap.

I guess you got it now.

You are not breaking any news here, mate. This is not a sudden realization. I think this is obvious for every Muslim state out there and non-Western state outside of a few exceptions such as China etc.

Would the Americans drone Pakistani territor killing civilians in the process if Pakistan was China? You know the answer to that.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

We cannot reform these sects that are quick to violence, we outnumber them so we must kill them. Beat them at their own game, that is the only way.

How did Christians do bthe reform during the age of enlightment? First take example from the experience of others.

 

[FaujHistorian]

In Pakistan

Khalifa is a family name of those who cut hair
like
Smith family name
or
Carpenter

or Jatt (the farmer)

or mochi (the cobbler).

 

[KingMamba]

How did Christians do bthe reform during the age of enlightment? First take example from the experience of others.

Well Christians butchered each other for a hundred years before they got tired and became "enlightened".

 

[Dubious]

@Akheilos
My point is just that Arabs will not accept foreign rule. The recent Western invasions in the Arab world showed this very clearly and the Americans learned it the hard way.
The point is also that nobody will be truly satisfied as every Muslim country would want a peace of the cake. Back then only the strongest ruled and eventually everybody else accepted it either by force or willingly. This is a fact.
Whoever rules KSA should not rule anything other than KSA. I am not interested in KSA having any leading position. I already wrote that Arabs should not rule non-Arabs again for centuries just like foreigners should not rule Arab land. That goes for the entire world. Why should any foreigner rule locals?!
Yet we both know that it was mostly about power outside of a few exceptions. Hence all the other titles that Caliphs used.
You have misunderstood me. You are saying that I want Arabs as Caliphs again while I have always said that I am not interested in such a thing. I don't want to rule others. Nor do I want to be ruled by outsiders! Whether they come under a religious clothing or because they want to spread their "democracy" or French Freedom Fries.
I am sorry but this is a idiotic discussion.
Look at the state of the Muslim world. Your own country with all due respect. Yet we are here talking about Caliphates. It's counterproductive.

I know what you are saying again you are telling me the problem while I am trying to discuss this problem not only on face value (we wont have foreign rule) but more on questioning it (why and how can you call a Muslim a foreigner when Prophet didnt call him that?)!

And again I am not talking about "ruling" but leading!

Its a discussion I am only discussing it...its not like we discuss it today and tomorrow it happens! Discussing gets one to broaden their views and thoughts!

 

[FaujHistorian]

How did Christians do bthe reform during the age of enlightment? First take example from the experience of others.

modern Christians use three sources for their enlightenment.

Greeks, Roman (from old days).
British/French from more recent (1600AD onwards)

For example the concept of Republic Old Greece/Roman

Three pillars of state (executive, judiciary, legislature) from France.

Add German reforms by the likes of Martin Luther and you can get some idea.

Well Christians butchered each other for a hundred years before they got tired and became "enlightened".

enlightenment came when they finally ditched corrupt leaders who were really the religious Mullahs.

Same must happen in Pakistan too.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Well Christians butchered each other for a hundred years before they got tired and became "enlightened".

Do we have a Martin Luther? Instead of Caliph, we need Martin Luther to oppose millenia old structures like Sunni or Shia.

Idiots are going mad in 21st century about political confrontation happened between Muawiya and Ali a.s. in 7th century.

 

[al-Hasani]

For those who want to talk about a Caliphate in its traditional form applied in year 2014 should maybe rather worry about the largely pathetic state of the Muslim world today and for centuries before and solve some of those giant and numerous problems that exist and have existed for centuries and which are solvable if hard work, dedication and sanity prevails.

There is a reason why the West has controlled by far most of the world for the past 500 years and shaped nearly all of our modern age. The Muslim/Eastern world did that for millenniums before largely so it's possible to do it again. Even during Islamic history those previous Caliphates I mentioned are a living proof of it being possible.

It's pretty symbolic that all the claimants of the Caliphate have been nothing more than trash. Pretty accurate as to the overall state of the Muslim world that they claim to represent!

No need to delude oneself anymore.

I understand that Pakistan was founded upon Islamic principles and all that but sometimes one needs to be realistic.

Anyway for those that will continue to live in delusion. Good luck to you but don't drag me, my people or country (ies) down during your inevitable downfall.

 

[nair]

I, hereby declare myself the Khalifa of PDF. Amir wa Khalifa t'ul bilad-e- PDFistan al Islami, Amir Aeronaut al Lahori.

Come my subjects, give me the kiss of loyalty on my ring.

@Dillinger @mastaan @Hyperion @nair @Yzd Khalifa

Have never met a khalifa in my real life...... I am soo happy that i met one.....

 

[KingMamba]

Do we have a Martin Luther? Instead of Caliph, we need Martin Luther to oppose millenia old structures like Sunni or Shia.

Idiots are going mad in 21st century about political confrontation happened between Muawiya and Ali a.s. in 7th century.

Our Martin Luthers are scared to speak out, no doubt we have many. Many Muslims prefer not to take sides in this battle but it hard not to when they face reprisals from crazies anyway. Just look at Iraq the Shias will now do attacks on Sunnis who may not want to fight at all which will lead to more Sunnis joining ISIS followed by attacks on Shias who may not want anything to do with the conflict who will then feel the need to join Shia militias.