ISI cannot be touched, says US

[Abu Zolfiqar]

166 people died in that incident.

Even if you 'believe' it was an inside job, the least you can do is not disrespect the dead by calling it a drama. Real people don't die real deaths in dramas.

Thank you

i condemned the attack as it was unfolding that day the way i would ANY terrorist attack in the world....i've lost members of family to armed attackers who had similar disregard for human life

im not disrespecting those dead, let that be clear

More like daily , but i would never call the deaths of innocent civilians a drama.

tell that to some of your countrymen who pop bottles and relish death or destruction when it unfolds......go to your indian defence forums to see how your people talk about Pakistanis/Muslims when there is any unrest or untoward incident.

dont try to turn it around on me. The drama is made by your politicians and your establishment, who are exploiting human misery and suffering for political purposes.


and incidentally, its irrelevant anyways since both individuals enjoy IMMUNITY -- which is the very fact that has already been established here.


so basically -- what the indians (or the American plaintiffs) were trying to push for was a NoN-Starter, is a Non-Starter and will always be a Non-Starter

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not really.. The immunity comes into play if he committed terrorist acts for which he is being sued on behalf of Pakistani govt. Not otherwise.. The court still needs to rule on who does the burden of proof falls on to prove if he acted on Pakistani state's behalf or not. But that will come much later.. First it needs to be proved if he was even involved or not.

sorry, no such evidence exists implicating either the retired Lt. General (a uniformed individual who in fact was more serious about counter-terrorism than anything you have produced in the past years - FACT) or anyone in the Service he worked for

burden of proof is established when you have EVIDENCE, not mere statements and recycled drivel from pranabs and krishnas

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

i condemned the attack as it was unfolding that day the way i would ANY terrorist attack in the world....i've lost members of family to armed attackers who had similar disregard for human life

im not disrespecting those dead, let that be clear



tell that to some of your countrymen who pop bottles and relish death or destruction when it unfolds......go to your indian defence forums to see how your people talk about Pakistanis/Muslims when there is any unrest or untoward incident.

dont try to turn it around on me. The drama is made by your politicians and your establishment, who are exploiting human misery and suffering for political purposes.

Well it's good that you condemned those attacks.Happy to know that , however, when you call the incident a drama, you are disrespecting the dead even if that is not your intention.

Honestly , i haven't seen any Indian members celebrating Pakistani deaths on this forum though some exceptions could be there and i would suggest you not to stoop to their levels.

I don't care about other defence forums , as this is the only one i am active on and this being one of the most successful online defence forums must set a higher standard for itself than just any 'other' defence forum.

Not trying to turn anything around on you, it was just a request. Anyway, what Indian politicians do is only because the represent the people of India and Indians have been demanding justice for the 26/11 victims. Who were the attackers ? Are Indians justified in having any such demands ? These are debatable questions but while debating them , it would be helpful if members don't use terms like 'drama' for a human tragedy as big as 26/11.

 

[Secur]

And this is a surprise?

No , its international law - not to mention the presumption of innocence until one is proven guilty and more importantly " locus standi "

 

[karan.1970]

sorry, no such evidence exists implicating either the retired Lt. General (a uniformed individual who in fact was more serious about counter-terrorism than anything you have produced in the past years - FACT) or anyone in the Service he worked for

burden of proof is established when you have EVIDENCE, not mere statements and recycled drivel from pranabs and krishnas

Mate, you need to get your facts in order.. Pranab, Krishna or Indian govt is not involved in this case. Its a few US citizens suing Hafiz Saeed and Pasha in a wrongful death case (thru terrorism).

tell that to some of your countrymen who pop bottles and relish death or destruction when it unfolds......go to your indian defence forums to see how your people talk about Pakistanis/Muslims when there is any unrest or untoward incident.

And I can show you Pakistani forums that collectively yell Allah-o-Akbar when there is a terror strike in India. What does that prove.? Since when is behavior of people on other forums allowed to be an excuse for one's behavior on this forum. ?

so basically -- what the indians (or the American plaintiffs) were trying to push for was a NoN-Starter, is a Non-Starter and will always be a Non-Starter

Lets see how this goes down. The courts haven't ruled on it yet..

 

[KingMamba]

Not really.. The immunity comes into play if he committed terrorist acts for which he is being sued on behalf of Pakistani govt. Not otherwise.. The court still needs to rule on who does the burden of proof falls on to prove if he acted on Pakistani state's behalf or not. But that will come much later.. First it needs to be proved if he was even involved or not.

You are wrong, burden of proof in the US judicial system is always on the plaintiff. Since this is a civil case the plaintiff will need a perponderance of evidence in order to get a ruling in his/her favor. That is highly unlikely since this never even went to a criminal court and the accused is both a foreign national who enjoys immunity and is not even present to defend himself. So yes this case is nothing but a drama.

 

[karan.1970]

You are wrong, burden of proof in the US judicial system is always on the plaintiff. Since this is a civil case the plaintiff will need a perponderance of evidence in order to get a ruling in his/her favor. That is highly unlikely since this never even went to a criminal court and the accused is both a foreign national who enjoys immunity and is not even present to defend himself. So yes this case is nothing but a drama.

Read my post again.. Specially the last line

 

[KingMamba]

Read my post again.. Specially the last line

I read what you wrote, you are wrong. The prosecution has brought this to court so they have to prove that he was both involved and that there is a preponderance of evidence in order to get a favorable ruling. However like I said there can hardly be a trail if the accused is not even present, and the US govt just ruled out any request for extradition. So this case is just a drama and since the US courts are not keen on "symbolic decisions" that hold no real meaning the case will probably be dismissed.

 

[Hound]

thats the only way they can justify drone strikes!!

 

[karan.1970]

I read what you wrote, you are wrong. The prosecution has brought this to court so they have to prove that he was both involved and that there is a preponderance of evidence in order to get a favorable ruling. However like I said there can hardly be a trail if the accused is not even present, and the US govt just ruled out any request for extradition. So this case is just a drama and since the US courts are not keen on "symbolic decisions" that hold no real meaning the case will probably be dismissed.

Err.. Extradition is needed in criminal cases. This is a civil case. Also, beyond a point in time, absence of the defendant does not postpone the case hearing indefinitely. There is a concept of trial in absentia..

 

[Areesh]

Former DG ISI enjoy immunity. Period.

However India should strike a new weapons deal of at least around 5 billion dollars with US. May be that might change the situation for Bharat in general and Bharatis on PDF in particular.

 

[karan.1970]

and i repeat what I said on Page 1

Its a little funny that Pakistanis are feeling happy and are celebrating that there is a technicality that will save their Spy master from a legal case, not realizing that the fact that their spy master is a defendant in a terrorism case itself should be embarrassment enough.

No one ever dreamed of any actual indictment coming out of this case (considering the case itself is a civil case), but the fact that this case is still going on in a US court where ex Pakistan ISI chief is a co defendant along with a UNSC designated terrorist must be squeamish enough for all self respecting Pakistanis.

There are enough instances where someone somewhere sues a politician of another country for various crimes.. But to be a co defendant in a case with a world known and UNSC labeled terrorist must be real fun for Pasha

 

[Secur]

^

Let me tell you a little secret , no spy master of ISI or the agency itself gives a damn **** if you sue it , can you do anything against him ? Anybody can initiate a case even against God , does that change anything ? That is why we presume innocence until guilt is proven , the US court must first prove itself that it has " locus standi " on the matter in the first place - then establish whether ISI was involved in it or not to which there's no proof as even Indian officials admit ... The rest can come later , kid ...

Something like this but different in the aspect that there was actual proof for that and that was against a whole ruling party ... Height of embarrassment for Indians ?

U.S. court issues summons to Congress for anti-Sikh riots

A U.S. court has issued summons to the Indian National Congress in connection with the 1984 anti-Sikh riots, acting on a Sikh rights group's petition charging it with “conspiring, aiding and abetting” organised attacks against the community.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article1503665.ece

Next time , do not throw stones if you are living in a glass house

 

[Awesome]

Its a little funny that Pakistanis are feeling happy and are celebrating that there is a technicality that will save their Spy master from a legal case, not realizing that the fact that their spy master is a defendant in a terrorism case itself should be embarrassment enough.

No one ever dreamed of any actual indictment coming out of this case (considering the case itself is a civil case), but the fact that this case is still going on in a US court where ex Pakistan ISI chief is a co defendant along with a UNSC designated terrorist must be squeamish enough for all self respecting Pakistanis.

There are enough instances where someone somewhere sues a politician of another country for various crimes.. But to be a co defendant in a case with a world known and UNSC labeled terrorist must be real fun for Pasha

I can open a case against your Prime Minister but it will be thrown out for the same reasons.

When my country's former Spy Chief didn't stand trial - how is he a defendant in that case?

 

[SMC]

Its a little funny that Pakistanis are feeling happy and are celebrating that there is a technicality that will save their Spy master from a legal case, not realizing that the fact that their spy master is a defendant in a terrorism case itself should be embarrassment enough.

No one ever dreamed of any actual indictment coming out of this case (considering the case itself is a civil case), but the fact that this case is still going on in a US court where ex Pakistan ISI chief is a co defendant along with a UNSC designated terrorist must be squeamish enough for all self respecting Pakistanis.

There are enough instances where someone somewhere sues a politician of another country for various crimes.. But to be a co defendant in a case with a world known and UNSC labeled terrorist must be real fun for Pasha

To add to what Asim said above, it looks like the only ones caring about this case are you and a handful of other bharatis. This case really has no significance. You're trying to see things where they don't exist.