ISI cannot be touched, says US

[snakeeagle]

u can touch1 which posses,isi the which didnt posses.only paper

 

[Awesome]

I actually care very much about bringing all Lashkar-e-Tayyaba culprits to justice who are the only Pakistani culprits that any sane agency has alleged. Even Indians just take ISI's names in passing the only allegation exists against LeT.

However this can't be an execute on the spot order and proper court case and trial must be held in a competent court of law within Pakistan.

Indians have not once, but in all instances refused to cooperate with the courts of Pakistan, especially with regards to collecting Ajmal Kasab's testimony. Now that hes no more, there is not a single confession admissible in a Pakistani court by Kasab against the people involved in LeT.

Lets not forget that now that the case is quite old, Pakistan is the most interested party in bringing 26/11 to a close and Indians are merely interested in keeping the shosha of the case alive - quite a disrespect on the lives lost not just in India, even in America.

 

[karan.1970]

To add to what Asim said above, it looks like the only ones caring about this case are you and a handful of other bharatis. This case really has no significance. You're trying to see things where they don't exist.

I or any other Bharti did not start this thread.. did we ??

 

[karan.1970]

I can open a case against your Prime Minister but it will be thrown out for the same reasons.

This case is not yet thrown out. and has been going on for over 2 years now. An affidavit by US state dept does not bind US judiciary.

When my country's former Spy Chief didn't stand trial - how is he a defendant in that case?

Its a civil case. And all you need to do to see if he is a co defendant or not is to open the court docket for this case. And since you may not believe Indian media, here is something from Pak media on the same

US court summons ISI, LeT chiefs - GEO.tv

BTW an interesting take on the episode. Looks like Raymond Davis got away with murder in exchange for this immunity..

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-13-19605-The-inside-story-of-the-CIA-ISI-immunity-deal

 

[ice_man]

guys ISI is a sh*t institution. if it really were as good as indians do propaganda! we wouldn't be having daily suicide attacks would we? hell secret service is not secret when it is daily in the news for being caught for alleged all wrong doing left right and center!

its all an indian propaganda to malign Pakistan.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Well it's good that you condemned those attacks.Happy to know that , however, when you call the incident a drama, you are disrespecting the dead even if that is not your intention.

Honestly , i haven't seen any Indian members celebrating Pakistani deaths on this forum though some exceptions could be there and i would suggest you not to stoop to their levels.

I don't care about other defence forums , as this is the only one i am active on and this being one of the most successful online defence forums must set a higher standard for itself than just any 'other' defence forum.

Not trying to turn anything around on you, it was just a request. Anyway, what Indian politicians do is only because the represent the people of India and Indians have been demanding justice for the 26/11 victims. Who were the attackers ? Are Indians justified in having any such demands ? These are debatable questions but while debating them , it would be helpful if members don't use terms like 'drama' for a human tragedy as big as 26/11.

i do call it a drama but i'm not disrespecting the dead at all....but anyways, if there's a misunderstanding about that hopefully it will be overcome

as for justice - indian victims of the 26/11 got their justice on 21/12 when the lone surviving gunman was hung and sent back to his Creator. Now is the time to move on and close this 4 year old chapter.

 

[karan.1970]

i do call it a drama but i'm not disrespecting the dead at all....but anyways, if there's a misunderstanding about that hopefully it will be overcome

as for justice - indian victims of the 26/11 got their justice on 21/12 when the lone surviving gunman was hung and sent back to his Creator. Now is the time to move on and close this 4 year old chapter.

Not really.. The 10 Pakistani terrorists, the last of whom was hanged on 21/12 were just the instruments of that terrorist attack. The real perpetrators are still sitting in Pakistani jails awaiting completion of their trial.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Not really.. The 10 Pakistani terrorists, the last of whom was hanged on 21/12 were just the instruments of that terrorist attack.

curiously, little was done to handle the indian-born facilitators. I saw little evidence of any attempt to investigate WHY these lightly armed kids knew their way around the cities and around the hotels and other landmarks so well. Those duffle bags that 1 or 2 of them had NO WAY had enough space to carry the amount of mags and ammo they'd have needed to sustain themselves over that 3 days period (along with their alcohol and other 'goods' which they had in their posses ion). Surely a hotel employee had pre-arranged a room where they could re-stock (notice I am speculating and acknowledging I am speculating -- versus indians who mistake opinion or speculation with hard court-acknowledged evidence)

They received inside help surely.. To facilitate something like this is ALMOST as bad as pulling that trigger; in fact, since the facilitators were indin it could be worse. To play it down and dramaticize it, bhartis unfortunately only looked at the Pakistani element behind it. A very selective approach towards an investigation which was dragged on and milked on shamelessly for over 4 years.

the fact that there are people within india who are capable of facilitating or doing 100 more 26/11s I'm surprised you focus on just the Pakistani aspect here. Could just be emotions at play.

The real perpetrators are still sitting in Pakistani jails awaiting completion of their trial.

Sorry. I'm going to ask you to name them and show the proof.


at any rate, as far as most of us (or at least I) am concerned the case is closed now and a buried affair so hopefully in the coming weeks or months -- slowly slowly it will be erased from your memories so that another time-wasting thread on it wont be opened on PDF

 

[karan.1970]

curiously, little was done to handle the indian-born facilitators. I saw little evidence of any attempt to investigate WHY these lightly armed kids knew their way around the cities and around the hotels and other landmarks so well. They received inside help. To facilitate something like this is ALMOST as bad as pulling that trigger; in fact, since the facilitators were indin it could be worse. To play it down and dramaticize it, bhartis unfortunately only looked at the Pakistani element behind it. A very selective approach towards an investigation which was dragged on and milked on shamelessly for over 4 years.

the fact that there are people within india who are capable of facilitating or doing 100 more 26/11s I'm surprised you focus on just the Pakistani aspect here. Could just be emotions at play.

Pakistan has no role to play in investigation into Indian facilitators (if any) and hence the information about that is not shared with it or even made public. btw, follow your own advice.. Name them and show evidence.

name them and show the proof. easy.


at any rate, as far as most of us (or at least I) am concerned the case is closed now and a buried affair so hopefully in the coming weeks or months -- slowly slowly it will be erased from your memories so that another time-wasting thread on it wont be opened on PDF

Naming them has already been done and those individuals (except 1) are being prosecuted by Pakistani govt currently.. And if you think Pakistan has seen the last of 26/11 repercussions, then I believe you are hugely mistaken...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan has no role to play in investigation into Indian facilitators (if any) and hence the information about that is not shared with it or even made public. btw, follow your own advice.. Name them and show evidence.

you may have missed the part where I clearly stated it was "curious" but I had nothing substantive to prove it (i.e. it was speculation)

you are correct about the first sentence though; have their been any leads or arrests?

Naming them has already been done and those individuals (except 1) are being prosecuted by Pakistani govt currently.. And if you think Pakistan has seen the last of 26/11 repercussions, then I believe you are hugely mistaken...

if we could brave your vicious propaganda campaign in 2008 (when indian ministers were flying all over the world trying to villify us), I think we've "survived" all the dangerous, 'scary' blows india could throw at us.

especially given the realities of how india has an inescapable track record of fabricating evidence and fake encounters:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/charges-framed-against-22-in-mumbai-fake-encounter-case/759941

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...r-killings-sohrabuddin-and-tulsiram-prajapati



With the hanging of Kasab, the case is closed. With the immunity granted to 2 of our retired spy officials, that pretty much seals shut the US case as well (at least as far as we are concerned) -- since the plaintiffs were aspiring to bring charges against them. Vis-a-vis 26/11 drama we've been responsible and have done the needful, but are now moving on to more important and pressing matters.

 

[karan.1970]

you may have missed the part where I clearly stated it was "curious" but I had nothing substantive to prove it (i.e. it was speculation)

Oh Well! In that case, lets avoid killing of the cat and move on from there.. shall we ?

if we could brave your vicious propaganda campaign in 2008 (when indian ministers were flying all over the world trying to villify us), I think we've "survived" all the dangerous, 'scary' blows india could throw at us.

I think all that diplomatic activity was just a smoke screen.. The blows probably fell elsewhere..

especially given the realities of how india has an inescapable track record of fabricating evidence and fake encounters:

Charges framed against 22 in Mumbai fake encounter case - Indian Express

191 fake encounters in last five years, NHRC tells Supreme Court - Times Of India

I guess this should be my cue to bring up in reciprocation, the forced disappearances, and alleged killing of journalists in Pakistan by hands of ISI etc.. but meh.. its almost tiresome when its not boring...

With the hanging of Kasab, the case is closed.

Not by a long shot mate..Picture abhi baaki hai

With the immunity granted to 2 of our retired spy officials, that pretty much seals shut the US case as well (at least as far as we are concerned) -- since the plaintiffs were aspiring to bring charges against them.

US case was a civil case and not criminal in nature.. Does not have any relevance to this discussion either way.

Vis-a-vis 26/11 drama we've been responsible and have done the needful, but are now moving on to more important and pressing matters.

Difference of opinion really.. But then you are entitled to yours. In my view the most important and pressing matter in front of Pakistan is what resulted in the Mumbai carnage i.e. the use of militants as a state policy by Pakistan which is now causing a blow back like nothing else..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I think all that diplomatic activity was just a smoke screen.. The blows probably fell elsewhere..

it was a waste of time on your part

to get cooperation, you dont run to media and you dont run to countries begging them to stop arms sales to Pakistan. In either case, indian efforts to get Pakistan black-listed or under pressure were futile.

I guess this should be my cue to bring up in reciprocation, the forced disappearances, and alleged killing of journalists in Pakistan by hands of ISI etc.. but meh.. its almost tiresome when its not boring...

we have threads devoted to those subjects/discussion

Not by a long shot mate..Picture abhi baaki hai

bollywood-worthy pictures hamesha hoga

US case was a civil case and not criminal in nature.. Does not have any relevance to this discussion either way.

well it does have relevance, since the topic is about the U.S. admitting that ISI officials enjoy immunity in the case in question --meaning they are not answerable at all to those courts.

caught up in your excitement and enthusiam, you forgot what the topic of the thread was

Difference of opinion really.. But then you are entitled to yours. In my view the most important and pressing matter in front of Pakistan is what resulted in the Mumbai carnage i.e. the use of militants as a state policy by Pakistan which is now causing a blow back like nothing else..

sorry! not good enough

Pakistan had nothing to even gain from 26/11 drama. Though nobody can deny indian gains when they also used armed militants as an instrument of state policy in 1971. No need for you to worry about "blowbacks" and all.

 

[karan.1970]

it was a waste of time on your part

to get cooperation, you dont run to media and you dont run to countries begging them to stop arms sales to Pakistan. In either case, indian efforts to get Pakistan black-listed or under pressure were futile.

They may seem futile to you, but really, the worst PR nightmare for Pakistan post Kargil was 26/11 and that stayed right up at the top till Osama was found in Abbotabad.. But that's fine with me, if you consider international ridicule for Pakistan, business as usual..

we have threads devoted to those subjects/discussion

As we do for the links you posted.. And hence my comment about not willing to engage in that off topic drivel...

bollywood-worthy pictures hamesha hoga

And we all know how popular those pictures are in Karachi and rest of Pakistan

well it does have relevance, since the topic is about the U.S. admitting that ISI officials enjoy immunity in the case in question --meaning they are not answerable at all to those courts.

caught up in your excitement and enthusiam, you forgot what the topic of the thread was

Not really.. You and I have been discussing the Indian approach to 26/11 to which the immunity granted by US State Dept to ISI DGs has relevance..

sorry! not good enough

Pakistan had nothing to even gain from 26/11 drama. Though nobody can deny indian gains when they also used armed militants as an instrument of state policy in 1971. No need for you to worry about "blowbacks" and all.

By your logic all the unrest in Pakistan must be the handiwork of Pakistani establishment since all that keeps Pakistan in the terrorism watch and keeps getting it civilian and military aid..

Some times, things are as simple as they seem.. Trying to always read between the lines is not necessarily productive.. Another word for that is called "Conspiracy theories"

 

[tarrar]

India copies US in every possible way they wanted Hindi version 9/11 so they staged fake 26/11 attacks, they wanted Indian version of OBL they chose Dr. Hafiz Saeed.

All I can see here is India is crying & they will cry forever, this is a part of shining India.

 

[happycanuck]

curiously, little was done to handle the indian-born facilitators. I saw little evidence of any attempt to investigate WHY these lightly armed kids knew their way around the cities and around the hotels and other landmarks so well. Those duffle bags that 1 or 2 of them had NO WAY had enough space to carry the amount of mags and ammo they'd have needed to sustain themselves over that 3 days period (along with their alcohol and other 'goods' which they had in their posses ion). Surely a hotel employee had pre-arranged a room where they could re-stock (notice I am speculating and acknowledging I am speculating -- versus indians who mistake opinion or speculation with hard court-acknowledged evidence)

They received inside help surely.. To facilitate something like this is ALMOST as bad as pulling that trigger; in fact, since the facilitators were indin it could be worse. To play it down and dramaticize it, bhartis unfortunately only looked at the Pakistani element behind it. A very selective approach towards an investigation which was dragged on and milked on shamelessly for over 4 years.

the fact that there are people within india who are capable of facilitating or doing 100 more 26/11s I'm surprised you focus on just the Pakistani aspect here. Could just be emotions at play.





Sorry. I'm going to ask you to name them and show the proof.


at any rate, as far as most of us (or at least I) am concerned the case is closed now and a buried affair so hopefully in the coming weeks or months -- slowly slowly it will be erased from your memories so that another time-wasting thread on it wont be opened on PDF

Before you ask the questions about local facilitators try to read about Headley who played a crucial role in gathering the information. As far as the help from the local is concerned that is internal affair of India and we do not have to tell any thing to a foreign Government. Sooner or later the untouchable will also be forced to face the music of justice. Every criminal gets justice whether in this life time or after they leave the world.