ISI and Soviets

[Reichsmarschall]

Fascinating,brutally honest ,almost morally horrifying interview by former ISI chief.Never seen such a interview by a fmr top ranking public official.Its intriguing.

son of a gun

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

son of a gun

Half admirable for his honesty and immoveable stance, half psychopathic calling his own nation's children acceptable 'collateral damage'.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Half admirable for his honesty and immoveable stance, half psychopathic calling his own nation's children acceptable 'collateral damage'.

he is speaking truth I agree with all of his words

 

[Ocean]

To be honest, I don't buy this argument. They could go through Iran as well if that was the objective.

More importantly, Soviet economy was in tatters during 1980s.

Look at it in a broader sense, if they had gained access to chahbahar or iran , even in that scenario they would have always remained a looming threat on our heads.

Lets look at it this way, an afghanistan in ussrs clutches, and india on the other edge, we are squeezed between tow hostile states and india wont hesitate to attack us.
Now assume both afghanistan and iran had fallen in ussrs lap , that would have become an even huge threat, a whole region to the other side of our western border would have been occupied by a ruthless expansionist regime and on the other side an ever ready to attack and wanting to break pakistan ,india sitting would have been far more than ominous.

The access to warm waters statement might have been a very simplified and basic statement to tell the masses abt probable threats posed to our states sovereignty.

 

[War Thunder]

correction:
we supported the Afghan resistance against the Soviet occupation because we were next in line. American assistance was helpful in bringing down the Soviet war machinery

after 9/11 Pakistani leadership urged Taliban to handover Osama , ISI chief together with Saudi Intelligence chief personally visited Mullah Omar advising him to not take American threats lightly and least give up OBL to neutral country to stand trial for his involvement. Sadly Omar lacked the comprehension of his refusal
we continued our diplomatic ties with them till the end untill the regime fell.


so ... NO we were not the sell outs we stayed till the end with them and even today we not only house their refugees but also take the blame for housing their leadership and continue to arrange for peaceful settlement.

dont be so dismissive about Pakistan

Correction: Americans would've invaded Afghanistan with or without Osama being there. Their main motive was to enter Afghanistan and destabilize Pakistan through the fifth gen warfare elements.
Musharraf was a bit too stupid to see that and gave away a bit too much a bit too easily.
The whole mess we have suffered and are still suffering which was followed by economic terrorists from the economic hitmen in the shape of politicians, is because of poor foresight and inability to withstand extreme pressure after 9/11.

We are not the sellouts but we sold our own country and countrymen a bit too easily, first to the Americans and their drones and later to the NRO and the looting that followed.

Let's not be dismissive but let's not be apologists either. The so-called establishment has delivered extreme mess to the lives of avg Pakistani because of poor decision making and inability to see things from proper context and for taking dictation from Washington and London.

Straight from Turkmenistan to Chabahar.

You definitely need to read on the history mate.
It's all declassified and out there in the open.

 

[Gurjot.S]

Soviets can invade pakistan was just an excuse. Even now, Russians dont have any interest in Arabian sea.
Pakistani Gernails needed an excuse and they used this excuse.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It was a major mistake in 70's to get involved with the Cruel game of deception , instigated by Americans.

Now Pakistanis have awaken to see realize the big mistake and grave error

A dark Chapter in Pakistan's history

We fell victim to the Hollywood-ization of the stories, the Rockey movies the , countless other propaganda material from Hollywood, certainly we were given the drugs in 60's by Americans and lured by their lies

60's to 70's a dark chapter in history for Pakistan, and then we fell into the deep rabbit hole of lies by Americans got caught baby sitting Afghani people and took hit to our economy for 40 years

Rockey

Then Rambo

American propaganda machine

Russians were always the Good guys
Pakistan was conned into the mess in 60's and 70's just horrible looking back


Pakistan has paid a price worth 200-500 Billion dollar due to ill advised hosting of Afghans in Pakistan and tremendous loss to economy


Mistake of EPIC proportions .....!!!!!

 

[HRK]

Why Pakistan was next in line ??? Reason ????

Why the German (and the western Europe) felt threaten by Soviet Union .... Why the NATO was formed ....???
Exactly for the same reasons we felt dangers at our borders

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Soviets can invade pakistan was just an excuse. Even now, Russians dont have any interest in Arabian sea.
Pakistani Gernails needed an excuse and they used this excuse.

you guys should learn from this we didnt allowed USSR in Afghanistan there is no chance we will allow you there

 

[Gurjot.S]

you guys should learn from this we didnt allowed USSR in Afghanistan there is no chance we will allow you there

USSR broke coz of its economical collapse. It had nothing to do with pakistan. Even you guys cud not save your own territory from getting divided and war on terror.

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

To be honest, I don't buy this argument. They could go through Iran as well if that was the objective.

More importantly, Soviet economy was in tatters during 1980s.

Iran had already fallen out of American orbit recently. Invading it would have pushed it back into American orbit one way or another. Pakistan on the other hand was surrounded by their ally on the east and that way they could have easily squeezed Pakistan from both sides. With India getting Northern Pakistan and USSR getting Balochistan.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

USSR broke coz of its economical collapse. It had nothing to do with pakistan. Even you guys cud not save your own territory from getting divided and war on terror.

Yes it was actually Baba Ram Dev and And SRi SRi Ravi shankar who were nice to Soviets and requested them to leave Afghanistan and Soviets couldn't deny their request and retreated from Afghanistan All this Afghan Mujahideen Resistance and Op cyclone etc are just Conspiracy theory invented by Porki$ in their madrassa to brainwash their masses India never sold 100000 0.303 rifles to Mujahiddens
now go sleep my son

 

[LeGenD]

Then why did Soviets fund the BLA and other communist separatist groups to specifically target Pakistani Baluchistan and not the Iranian Balochistan? Share your wisdom.

Could be in response to Pakistani support for Afghan mujaheddin.

I am not complaining about Pakistani intervention in Afghanistan; I simply do not find the whole "Soviets wanting to reach Warm Waters via Balochistan" a convincing narrative.

Soviet intervention in Afghanistan has much more to do with safeguarding communist forces in that country because half of that country was up in arms against them at the time (a book My life with the Taliban offers a comprehensive insight about Soviet intervention in Afghanistan).

The whole "Soviets wanting to reach Warm Waters via Balochistan" sounds like a narrative-building effort on the part of Zia administration to galvanize Pakistani support for Afghan mujaheddin against Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. Understandably so due to Pakistan suffering a major set back in 1971 and the fear of encirclement from USSR and India respectively.

My point of contention primarily rests upon the assumption that Soviet economy was in poor shape in 1980s and opening two fronts in Afghanistan and Pakistan (simultaneously) was not an economically feasible option for the Soviets back then.

Nonetheless, I am open to different views in this matter.

Look at it in a broader sense, if they had gained access to chahbahar or iran , even in that scenario they would have always remained a looming threat on our heads.

Lets look at it this way, an afghanistan in ussrs clutches, and india on the other edge, we are squeezed between tow hostile states and india wont hesitate to attack us.
Now assume both afghanistan and iran had fallen in ussrs lap , that would have become an even huge threat, a whole region to the other side of our western border would have been occupied by a ruthless expansionist regime and on the other side an ever ready to attack and wanting to break pakistan ,india sitting would have been far more than ominous.

The access to warm waters statement might have been a very simplified and basic statement to tell the masses abt probable threats posed to our states sovereignty.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[Gurjot.S]

Yes it was actually Baba Ram Dev and And SRi SRi Ravi shankar who were nice to Soviets and requested them to leave Afghanistan and Soviets couldn't deny their request and retreated from Afghanistan All this Afghan Mujahideen Resistance and Op cyclone etc are just Conspiracy theory invented by Porki$ in their madrassa to brainwash their masses India never sold 100000 0.303 rifles to Mujahiddens
now go sleep my son

No country can hold any foreign territory for long especially when there is an resistance coming and when your own nation is getting collapsed from inside. Go and read the reason behind the soviet collapse and then see pakistani role in it.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

No country can hold any foreign territory for long especially when there is an resistance coming and when your own nation is getting collapsed from inside. Go and read the reason behind the soviet collapse and then see pakistani role in it.

Baba Ramdev Liberated afghanistan from commie thugs