ISI and Soviets

[litman]

Welcome to the real world!



You need to read history before you spew easily dismissible revisionist none sense. Zia was knee-deep before the US even approached him and was motivated by his own nation’s security interests. Actually, don’t even read any history, watch Charlie Wilson’s war. You will get better history than your schools have suceeded so far.

the real world is full of evidences of US hypocrisy. congrats to you. your country has won the gold medal in hypocrisy.

 

[Imran Khan]

we are still paying the price

 

[Torch_v2.0]

You need to read history before you spew easily dismissible revisionist none sense. Zia was knee-deep before the US even approached him and was motivated by his own nation’s security interests. Actually, don’t even read any history, watch Charlie Wilson’s war. You will get better history than your schools have suceeded so far.

What wrong i have posted Sir please elaborate ?

 

[Reichsmarschall]

What wrong i have posted Sir please elaborate ?

Pakistan started war without US support
Americans came in later

 

[Torch_v2.0]

Also as ussr had a history of collaborating with india in bangladesh seperation and KGB had remained involved in fomenting insurgency in balochistan , pakistan would have been at a constant risk

Does these thing happened by itself , or there was some reasons behind it ?

Pakistan started war without US support
Americans came in later

You simply admit it that i haven't said anything wrong !!!!!!!!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Irfan sahab and @Talwar e Pakistan we were helping afghans before usa joined in but its after usa , saudia etc got together the narrative of jihad in the name of islam was spread world over to gather mujahideens from across the world and then we got uzbek, tajik , arabs and so many other nationalities fighters. Somewhere here islam was used wrongly , for a political advantage

this narrative demands some scrutiny which never comes and people who hate army and Islam use it for their benefit.

the "use of Islam" for the sake of this inappropriate term... was inevitable. people of Pakistan and Afghans share the same faith and then there is the question of Pashton population. reference to Islam was like an elephant in the room which couldn't be avoided in building a narrative and support of Afghan Mujahideen.
the question of helping Afghans was self preservation as well to stop the Soviet Armor Columns from moving into Pakistan via Khaiber pass. having comon faith was just a convenience.

fast forward to 9/11.. Pakistani state didnt betray or abandon their fellow Muslims. instead we made tireless efforts to get some sense into Taliban leadership. Pakistan ISI chief Gen Ahsan and Saudi Prince Turki Al Faisel made personal visit to Afghanistan and met Mullah Omar requesting him to Hand over Osama who was not just wanted by Americans but also for his organisation's involvement in terrorism against Saudi Kingdom. both Pakistan and Saudis were disappointed by the idiotic and clueless Taliban leadership that had no clue what was coming.

 

[litman]

this narrative demands some scrutiny which never comes and people who hate army and Islam use it for their benefit.

the "use of Islam" for the sake of this inappropriate term... was inevitable. people of Pakistan and Afghans share the same faith and then there is the question of Pashton population. reference to Islam was like an elephant in the room which couldn't be avoided in building a narrative and support of Afghan Mujahideen.
the question of helping Afghans was self preservation as well to stop the Soviet Armor Columns from moving into Pakistan via Khaiber pass. having comon faith was just a convenience.

fast forward to 9/11.. Pakistani state didnt betray or abandon their fellow Muslims. instead we made tireless efforts to get some sense into Taliban leadership. Pakistan ISI chief Gen Ahsan and Saudi Prince Turki Al Faisel made personal visit to Afghanistan and met Mullah Omar requesting him to Hand over Osama who was not just wanted by Americans but also for his organisation's involvement in terrorism against Saudi Kingdom. both Pakistan and Saudis were disappointed by the idiotic and clueless Taliban leadership that had no clue what was coming.

but we will be of no match to those "idiots" in the next world. we preferred this world , compromised on principles,renamed our "friends " as terrorists. they preferred the next world ,stood against an oppressor, sacrificed their lives and will definitely attain the ultimate glory. differences in priorities. we should learn something from iran. they faced sanctions, threats but didnt bow to US pressure. just last night there was a program about pak' s war on terror and i must admit that imran khan is the only leader type material right now in pakistan. he openly criticized the decision of the leader at that time who bowed to US pressure. he said that as a leader its important to take pressure. rest of the generals of our military who were interviewed were afraid of US might. we should either stop calling ourselves as muslims or start implementing islam in true letter and spirit. as a muslim we cant keep islam out of our foreign policy. and we should be ready to sacrifice. we have been told in Quran that we will be tested . our claim of calling ourselves muslim wont be accepted till the time we prove it through our actions. its not easy to get the ultimate glory. i dont know how we will respond to dajjal. that will be the most difficult test we have been foretold. obey him and we will be allowed to live. oppose him and starve to death. this is what's coming . most likely muslims like us will keep on reciting kalima on tongue and will follow dajjal's orders to please him. please read surah ahzab in Quran and you will understand what should be the response of a muslim state when surrounded by a powerful enemy threatening to finish them off from the face of the earth.

 

[Ocean]

this narrative demands some scrutiny which never comes and people who hate army and Islam use it for their benefit.

the "use of Islam" for the sake of this inappropriate term... was inevitable. people of Pakistan and Afghans share the same faith and then there is the question of Pashton population. reference to Islam was like an elephant in the room which couldn't be avoided in building a narrative and support of Afghan Mujahideen.
the question of helping Afghans was self preservation as well to stop the Soviet Armor Columns from moving into Pakistan via Khaiber pass. having comon faith was just a convenience.

fast forward to 9/11.. Pakistani state didnt betray or abandon their fellow Muslims. instead we made tireless efforts to get some sense into Taliban leadership. Pakistan ISI chief Gen Ahsan and Saudi Prince Turki Al Faisel made personal visit to Afghanistan and met Mullah Omar requesting him to Hand over Osama who was not just wanted by Americans but also for his organisation's involvement in terrorism against Saudi Kingdom. both Pakistan and Saudis were disappointed by the idiotic and clueless Taliban leadership that had no clue what was coming.

Please janab dont consider me anti army , i support our armed forces, its just that sometimes things need to be looked at from neutral point of view so that past errors could be traced out.

I do agree i feel we needed to support our muslim pushtoon popultaion and a common islamic faith and their pushtoon ethnicity were two factors that would have ncouraged us to step in, but in this specific scenario our own existence was at stake.

The issue here started that there were certain brands of islam and ideologies that forget about american policy makers supporting it or not even Pakistani military and politicial leaderships military leaderships would not have found accpetable under normal circumstances, but in this particular case of cold war, to fight for our existance , a broad all encomapasisng narrative was weaved which would contain both twisted as well legit islamic ideologies. Later as u know how things went out of control in last few decades with indian opportunists and israeli and american intel agencies taking full advantage of it.

As of obl , in his case the guy had already started his fight against Saudi royal house due to them inviting american bases in saudia against iraq. I never understood if obls grouse was with saudi royals being close to americans then why he agreed to fight afghanwar which too was funded and supported by americans.

Lastly , speaking of taliban leadership not handing him over to usa, well their logic was that usa should provide a concrete evidence of obls involvement in 911 attack, if evidence is authentic they will hand him to them but its said that americans never came up with any such proof which led to Taliban leaders staying staunch on their stance.

Also maybe i am wrong but i just find it very weird how usa could have attacked just on the basis that we are not allowing them access to our routes to bomb afghanitsan just to take out obl? And how for the sake of one obl, usa made entire taliban leadership their enemy?

Also some people say iran stood its ground against usa etc etc well, if usa had to attack iran it would have done many decades back it was not that impossible for them but they needed a shia majority state to be constantly pitted against sunni muslim world. As long as these two ideologies keep clashing in the battlefield who gets to draw more benefit out of it? Ofcourse western powers,

Ps. These are my personal views and could be flawed so please excuse me for the errors in writing and analysis

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Please janab dont consider me anti army , i support our armed forces, its just that sometimes things need to be looked at from neutral point of view so that past errors could be traced out.

I do agree i feel we needed to support our muslim pushtoon popultaion and a common islamic faith and their pushtoon ethnicity were two factors that would have ncouraged us to step in, but in this specific scenario our own existence was at stake.

The issue here started that there were certain brands of islam and ideologies that forget about american policy makers supporting it or not even Pakistani military and politicial leaderships military leaderships would not have found accpetable under normal circumstances, but in this particular case of cold war, to fight for our existance , a broad all encomapasisng narrative was weaved which would contain both twisted as well legit islamic ideologies. Later as u know how things went out of control in last few decades with indian opportunists and israeli and american intel agencies taking full advantage of it.

As of obl , in his case the guy had already started his fight against Saudi royal house due to them inviting american bases in saudia against iraq. I never understood if obls grouse was with saudi royals being close to americans then why he agreed to fight afghanwar which too was funded and supported by americans.

Lastly , speaking of taliban leadership not handing him over to usa, well their logic was that usa should provide a concrete evidence of obls involvement in 911 attack, if evidence is authentic they will hand him to them but its said that americans never came up with any such proof which led to Taliban leaders staying staunch on their stance.

Also maybe i am wrong but i just find it very weird how usa could have attacked just on the basis that we are not allowing them access to our routes to bomb afghanitsan just to take out obl? And how for the sake of one obl, usa made entire taliban leadership their enemy?

Also some people say iran stood its ground against usa etc etc well, if usa had to attack iran it would have done many decades back it was not that impossible for them but they needed a shia majority state to be constantly pitted against sunni muslim world. As long as these two ideologies keep clashing in the battlefield who gets to draw more benefit out of it? Ofcourse western powers,

Ps. These are my personal views and could be flawed so please excuse me for the errors in writing and analysis

OBL was running a terror organisation and Taliban were his willing hosts, he was wanted by Saudis even before 9/11. we didn't betray Afghans for the sake of money. we annoyed Americans right from the start to this day for being favorable towards Afghan Taliban . 193 nations signed on the UN resolution of war against terror there was no betrayal to Islam or the Afghans. whether OBL was responsible for 9/11 or not is debatable (and now irrelevant) but he inspired terrorism almost across the globe.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Fascinating,brutally honest ,almost morally horrifying interview by former ISI chief.Never seen such a interview by a fmr top ranking public official.Its intriguing.

 

[Divergent]

I’m going to see an ISI agent soon

 

[Advocate Pakistan]

They are sold a story Soviets wanting "warm waters" and made to believe they are going to get Pakistan. BLA was created by Soviets after Pakistanies got themselves involv d in the Afghan war.
The true reason they joined the Afghan war was the thought of India on on side and USSR on the other border scared the sh!t out of the Pakistanie security establishment,hence the warm waters story

Yes, we didn't want two hostiles on our doorsteps who were also close friends of each other. And the Soviets had to be taught a lesson for their help and support to India during 71. If it was an option today, we would do the same.
You are sold a story that Pakistanis are sold stories and hence every thing is yellow to you.

 

[LeGenD]

Soviets needed access to the Arabian sea via Balochistan.

To be honest, I don't buy this argument. They could go through Iran as well if that was the objective.

More importantly, Soviet economy was in tatters during 1980s.

 

[undercover JIX]

USSR wanted Afghanistan for the same reason America entered and not leaving, geographically centrally located. to dominate this part of the world since ancient times Afg is perceived as easy target because of its condition, but always misunderstood people and culture.

 

[UnitedPak]

To be honest, I don't buy this argument. They could go through Iran as well if that was the objective.

More importantly, Soviet economy was in tatters during 1980s.

Then why did Soviets fund the BLA and other communist separatist groups to specifically target Pakistani Baluchistan and not the Iranian Balochistan? Share your wisdom.