What's new

Is US succumbing to Pakistani diplomacy?

There's a difference between geo-politics and street fight. Even in a street fight, you measure the size and heart of your opponent before taking a decision. Their is no military parity between US and Pak, but US knows and we know that for the last 37 years we have been fighting covert wars with opponents much bigger than our size and we managed to match it despite contrary expectations. You expect Pakistan to give a knee-jerk reaction? Well if we had too, we could have done that after Black Water was caught red-handed, or after Ray-Davis episode or after Abbotabad or at least after Salala but we did not. Even at that time observers like yourself quipped with similar phrases like 'taking it like a good boy' but time proved quite the opposite. We cleared Fata at the time of our own choice, not on American demand. Zarb e Azb and Radd ul Fasaad, is an effort to clear internal foreign assets, again we are doing it at the time of our own choosing. Border Management, which we have been asking the Yanks and Afghans for over a decade and which they were strongly opposed to, we are doing it now. It doesn't make us taking it like a good boy sir, we are returning the favor in kind but only on our terms. If US is yelling at us in 2018 after 16 years of futile effort, we must have done something right, don't you think?

Speaking of leverage, there is no worst-case scenario yet, and all kind of leverage exists before that. US knows about the limits of its leverage with Russia, China, Pakistan and a hostile Iran around it in Afghanistan. We had taken US embargoes in our stride before in a uni-polar world and we can still take it now when the world is almost multi-polar. We don't have to shut the routes now, Yanks have to do a lot before that for example, ending the non-NATO ally status for Pakistan, Economic sanctions, declaring Pakistan a terrorist state or sanctioning ISI, freezing our worldwide assets and bank accounts so on and so forth and we'll see how far they can go.. so you were wrong because eventually it will be us, who will call the American bluff. I believe US won't go that far (despite many Indians wanting them too) , it's plain lunacy if they take things to that level, they are testing waters to see how far they can go with their leverage before deciding to call it quits. In the meanwhile, we'll quietly keep doing what we have been doing and the Yanks can't do s*** about it.

Just to give you some food of thought before I conclude, Yanks have lost a lot of clout and credibility post Crimea and Syria, still if that doesn't ring you any bell, nothing will.

I would like to understand the use or importance of being major non Nato ally when you are under virtual military embargo. Heck, you were blocked from even buying second hand Jordanian F-16s. The US will continue to take many propping steps before the real hammer comes down. Any weakness and submissive behavior will only invite more aggression. If the US’ actions “failed” for the past 16 Years, Pakistan’s efforts have amounted to zero. If you can’t understand that, you won’t understand anything.

You are right when one state says that we don't want your money nor friendship, the other should respect it, shut up and move aside. Right?
No, not when you are providing a service for free. Lol

Its been literally 36 hours. It took several days after Salala, when we had actual dead people on the ground to act.

We are not Iran who talk loudly and then acquiesce to everything, see Iran nuclear deal. We act in our best interests, what we define as our interests, not what foreigners do. There is a lot more than "shutting supply" lines that we can do. Stop intelligence sharing. Refuse to act against any militants. We have already ordered 1.5 million Afghan refugees to leave the country in 30 days, which has caused alarm bells in Kabul.

And lets face facts. The World's Greatest Military (TM) has failed to impose the national will over a barren rock of a country and if its own security establishment is to be believed, the largest intelligence apparatus that the world has ever seen has been outfoxed and outwitted by...... the intelligence agency of a mid level power.

It.Is.Pathetic.

If your country can remove the Afghani immigrants before your 23rd march parade, you should mark that date as your second Independence Day. It’s the biggest political and strategic liability your country faces. They have given your country nothing but hate, backstabbing and turmoil. But I doubt your leadership has the wisdom to act on its interests. Despite, its pathetic position and circumstances the Kabul regime is a major threat to your security.
 
. .
At the end of the day, Trump administration carried out its threat. Without repercussions. This is dangerous for your country. It’s a behavior that invites aggression. Everyone can see that but Pakistanis

But let’s agree to disagree
If I were a Pak strategist I would have carried the US goods to Afghanistan at my own cost.....
 
. . .
really stop the bullshit...the only reason why everything is messed up is that US generals go and lie consistently in american senate

There's no "bullshit" and this general is like what I said. Your manner of speaking to me is horrible. If you can't post respectfuĺly do not bother at all.
 
.
Mattis has strong ties to Pakistan's military and over the course of his career has developed somewhat of a softspot for the country. Whether he can sway the civilian leadership is another thing.
sorry man never knew you were fan of general mattis
yes he is right, not wrong, pakistan is supporting terroists

 
Last edited:
.
sorry man never knew you were fan of general mattis
yes he is right, not wrong pakistan is supporting terroists

There is plenty of stuff on him about this, others like Mcmaster are not.
 
.

There is plenty of stuff on him about this, others like Mcmaster are not.
never knew you agree with his views on pakistan "..unable to remove safe heavens..., born with very little affection for itself..."
 
.


never knew you agree with his views on pakistan "..unable to remove safe heavens..., born with very little affection for itself..."

Obviously I don't but out of the lot he is the one who has somewhat of an ear to listen. As for such views you'll find some so called Pakistanis saying that let alone a US general.

Here;

The next US secretary of defence was the Obama administration’s main man to keep a line open and bring ties with the top Pakistani military leadership back on an even keel in the dark days following the arrest of a CIA contractor and the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Even as bilateral tensions were high, Mattis, who had described partnering with Pakistan as one of the key tasks for CENTCOM, commended the Pakistan military for making “very significant moves” against terrorists at a Senate Armed Service House hearing in March 2011 on the “Posture of US Central Command”.

While New Delhi was not part of his area of reach, Mattis recognised that “India’s influence impacts the strategic calculations of Pakistan and, to some extent, virtually every other country in the CENTCOM AOR [Area of Responsibility]”.

“We recognize that Pakistan’s long-standing tensions with India are an important part of Pakistan’s strategic decision-making calculus and military force posture. However, the presence of extremist sanctuaries in Pakistan significantly impacts our progress in Afghanistan, and with the Pakistan military’s help we are taking important steps to improve cross-border operations,” he said.

Praising Rawalpindi for making “impressive strides” in combating terrorists in FATA, he had also highlighted that Pakistan had deployed “upwards of 140,000 troops along Pakistan’s western border with Afghanistan, a significant portion of which were drawn from Pakistan’s border with India”.

Mattis also lobbied for a consistent flow of US security assistance, which he termed as “critical” for the Pakistan partnership.

In March 2012, Mattis was once again trying to calm down Congressmen baying for Pakistan’s blood over bin Laden, as attitudes against Islamabad hardened across Capitol Hill and intelligence circles. Mattis told the House Armed Services that he “did not believe that anyone in Pakistan was aware that the Al-Qaeda chief was in Abbottabad”, The News reported. The article also quoted him as saying that “he was well aware that nobody was in the knowledge of Osama’s presence in Abbottabad”.

On relations with Pakistan, he gave a more mixed picture than a year before. “There are disagreements on some aspects of who’s the enemy and who is not, and over years some of this has shifted below both of our feet but the threat that the enemy presents is a threat to Pakistan as much as it is to Afghanistan,” he said.

But, he went onto to say that despite differences, Islamabad was a key ally. “We don’t have 100 percent common ground about it, but it is not a showstopper,” he said.

In the 2012 hearing, Mattis expressed a sense of gratitude towards Pakistan for their help after 9/11. “Gen Mattis said he could not have gone to Southern Afghanistan without Pakistani support in 2001,” The News reported.

It remains to be seen if Trump’s defence secretary and national security advisor, Lieutenant General Michael T. Flynn, will play a tug-of-war on giving some leeway to Islamabad.

Flynn, who had worked under Mattis, has been rather clear that it cannot be business as usual in ties with Pakistan.

https://thewire.in/84193/trump-defence-secretary-mattis-pakistan/
 
.
So no impact on GLOC and ALOC? Pakistan is just gonna sit back & take it like a good boy? This shows beyond shadow of doubt Pakistan is guilty as charged. If a cop gives you a speeding ticket if you were not speeding, an innocent person will protest and fight the charges. If you pay the ticket right away, it shows you are guilty. Either Pakistan is guilty as charged or something is really messed up with Pakistan.


RE: complete non sense.

US todate could not even prove as much as supply truck from Pakistan to the Afgan Taliban. The fact remains 43% of A-stan lands is controlled by the taliban and they have 60,000+ fighters aimed at your direction.

The truth is USA frustrated by CPEC and our nuke program everything else is nonsense.

They also know they cannot sent any large troops to a-stan it would break the US economy and it didnt work the last time. Russia, China and iran have all contacts with the Afgan taliban and are looking a final political settlement. No body is on USA 's side except for India.

USA's position is stupid. Pakistan will NEVER attack the afgan taliban no matter what USA says.... and why should we?..

> Afgan taliban attacks US troops, NDA and Indian interest. > how is it a bad thing for us?

> The Kabul government is a ungrateful barking dog and india .. the less said the better

> there are over 3M afgans in Pakistan that refuse to return to A-stan. > if we attack Afgan Taliban it will result in Pak Taliban all over again for us. Oh ya UN and other human rights groups cry like dogs each time we attempt to remove them. The real reason if they return the minority government in Kabul would lose power.. of course such details you are ignorant of.

But i am happy US canceled this so called aid. Pakistan inturn should recharge commercial rates for use of our ports, land routes and air space.

Good luck trying to win on your own... the last we helped we got rid of AL Qaida for you.. with you on your own you will be luck to catch a mouse... your failures in Syria, iraq and Libya are proof you cannot do this on your own... jezz even in somalia we had to save your sorry arse
 
Last edited:
.
Mattis has strong ties to Pakistan's military and over the course of his career has developed somewhat of a softspot for the country. Whether he can sway the civilian leadership is another thing.

That means those Mattis connections inside Pakistani military listening/acting on Mattis request and influencing Pakistani policy and decision making. At this juncture, can Pakistan afford to allow such back channel exploitation by US? If anything, these connections or "beneficiary class" within establishment are biggest road block in pursuing Pakistani interest and gaining strategic independence.
 
. .
I would like to understand the use or importance of being major non Nato ally when you are under virtual military embargo. Heck, you were blocked from even buying second hand Jordanian F-16s. The US will continue to take many propping steps before the real hammer comes down. Any weakness and submissive behavior will only invite more aggression. If the US’ actions “failed” for the past 16 Years, Pakistan’s efforts have amounted to zero. If you can’t understand that, you won’t understand anything.
The importance of being a major non-NATO ally go beyond military assistance. Politically speaking, if the US was to remove this designation for Pakistan then it would accelerate the cooling of relations between the two states which would result in the US losing out more in the long-run. It would signal that the US does not see Pakistan as a valuable ally which would give Pakistan more than enough justification to work against the US's interests in the region.

I fail to see where you get the idea that Pakistan's efforts have "amounted to zero" while we have drastically cleared terrorism in our country without the US's cooperation while the US and its NATO allies have failed to make overall gains against the Taliban. And now guess what? IS has decided to show its face and the US can do nothing but take a beating like a good boy. If you can’t understand that, you won’t understand anything.

If your country can remove the Afghani immigrants before your 23rd march parade, you should mark that date as your second Independence Day. It’s the biggest political and strategic liability your country faces. They have given your country nothing but hate, backstabbing and turmoil. But I doubt your leadership has the wisdom to act on its interests. Despite, its pathetic position and circumstances the Kabul regime is a major threat to your security.
We're already in the process of sending them back to Afghanistan.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fe...-home-pakistan-crackdown-170225103737546.html
 
.
@ziaulislam I gave you a friendly head's up on how to post respectfully (post 59 I deleted), but you JUST DON'T GET IT DO YOU? You're not posting on this thread anymore and if you insist I'll ban, not giving a damm.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom