Is US succumbing to Pakistani diplomacy?

[shootingstar]

I m not under estimating US but US is in for a ride... they can pretty much waive bye bye to Afghanistan


We had full US sanctions in 1998 and economy was booming....

If Pakistan stops the logistics then US would have no option but to leave Afghanistan.

 

[Falcon26]

Again, You are under-estimating Pakistan resolves to its security.
We cannot be bullied like this, you are up against a resilient matador.

Not doubting that but hard to see that when you remove your biggest leverage out of the equation

Such measures are bound to follow, foriegn policy shift doesnt happen on the whims of twitter mood changes of a crazy man in other countries u knw. Its not like we havent suspended the routes in the past. Closing the routes is not a big deal n will happen at an appropriate time in the near future...

That’s all fine and all but so far you have been punished and have taken it well. Who knows what happens in the future. I am an astrologer

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Trump has outsourced diplomacy to the generals - a 100% guaranteed path to failure!!! Six centuries of the Ottoman Empire was lost in six years of military government.....

 

[Tameem]

Not doubting that but hard to see that when you remove your biggest leverage out of the equation

Again, Its US, who is removing its leverage from Pakistan being desperate to an impending defeatist scenario emerging in Afghanistan, We are smooth and calm and can wait out US over another 100 years.
Bear in mind, both US and Pak have conflict of interests in Afghanistan...Simple.

 

[Falcon26]

Again, Its US, who is removing its leverage from Pakistan being desperate to an impending defeatist scenario emerging in Afghanistan, We are smooth and calm and can wait out US over another 100 years.
Bear in mind, both US and Pak have conflict of interests in Afghanistan...Simple.

The US hasn’t removed its leverage.Pakistan did. That’s a horrible reading of what has happened in the past few days. For years, it’s been argued that Pakistan will close its ground and air access to NATO if securuty assistsnce was cut. Trump has called that bluff and showed widely held assumptions as phony. Your military and government have been humiliated and still trying to salvage some sort of respite from Trump’s onslaught. I don’t see a smooth and calm reaction, just desperation and cluelessness. My fair assessment.

 

[Tameem]

The US hasn’t removed its leverage.Pakistan did. That’s a horrible reading of what has happened in the past few days. For years, it’s been argued that Pakistan will close its ground and air access to NATO if securuty assistsnce was cut. Trump has called that bluff and showed widely held assumptions as phony. Your military and government have been humiliated and still trying to salvage some sort of respite from Trump’s onslaught. I don’t see a smooth and calm reaction, just desperation and cluelessness. My fair assessment.

Your fair Assessment...hmmm......Let's agree to dis-agrees.
Trump wants us to behave like an enemy....while we are showing shenanigans here and there as usual.

 

[Falcon26]

Your fair Assessment...hmmm......Let's agree to dis-agrees.
Trump wants us to behave like an enemy....while we are showing shenanigans here and there as usual.

At the end of the day, Trump administration carried out its threat. Without repercussions. This is dangerous for your country. It’s a behavior that invites aggression. Everyone can see that but Pakistanis

But let’s agree to disagree

 

[Tameem]

At the end of the day, Trump administration carried out its threat. Without repercussions.

Sheer desperation, nothing else.

 

[Falcon26]

Sheer desperation, nothing else.

It’s not desperation if your country is too weak to retaliate lol haven’t you ever been in a street fight?

 

[sparten]

At the end of the day, Trump administration carried out its threat. Without repercussions. This is dangerous for your country. It’s a behavior that invites aggression. Everyone can see that but Pakistanis

But let’s agree to disagree

Its been literally 36 hours. It took several days after Salala, when we had actual dead people on the ground to act.

We are not Iran who talk loudly and then acquiesce to everything, see Iran nuclear deal. We act in our best interests, what we define as our interests, not what foreigners do. There is a lot more than "shutting supply" lines that we can do. Stop intelligence sharing. Refuse to act against any militants. We have already ordered 1.5 million Afghan refugees to leave the country in 30 days, which has caused alarm bells in Kabul.

And lets face facts. The World's Greatest Military (TM) has failed to impose the national will over a barren rock of a country and if its own security establishment is to be believed, the largest intelligence apparatus that the world has ever seen has been outfoxed and outwitted by...... the intelligence agency of a mid level power.

It.Is.Pathetic.

 

[Tameem]

It’s not desperation if your country is too weak to retaliate lol haven’t you ever been in a street fight?

We can bear it. That is why i stated earlier that US under estimating Pakistan.
Our deep state interest are most dear and important than a show of timid ego.

 

[Canuck786]

It’s not desperation if your country is too weak to retaliate lol haven’t you ever been in a street fight?

How weak do you think are we then. Do you recall the victor among David vs Goliath. Is USA vs PAK today's David vs Goliath. Some smart ancestor once said that no person or entity should be looked upon as too weak and conversely, none should be considered too strong.

 

[jzeebravo]

It’s not desperation if your country is too weak to retaliate lol haven’t you ever been in a street fight?

There's a difference between geo-politics and street fight. Even in a street fight, you measure the size and heart of your opponent before taking a decision. Their is no military parity between US and Pak, but US knows and we know that for the last 37 years we have been fighting covert wars with opponents much bigger than our size and we managed to match it despite contrary expectations. You expect Pakistan to give a knee-jerk reaction? Well if we had too, we could have done that after Black Water was caught red-handed, or after Ray-Davis episode or after Abbotabad or at least after Salala but we did not. Even at that time observers like yourself quipped with similar phrases like 'taking it like a good boy' but time proved quite the opposite. We cleared Fata at the time of our own choice, not on American demand. Zarb e Azb and Radd ul Fasaad, is an effort to clear internal foreign assets, again we are doing it at the time of our own choosing. Border Management, which we have been asking the Yanks and Afghans for over a decade and which they were strongly opposed to, we are doing it now. It doesn't make us taking it like a good boy sir, we are returning the favor in kind but only on our terms. If US is yelling at us in 2018 after 16 years of futile effort, we must have done something right, don't you think?

Speaking of leverage, there is no worst-case scenario yet, and all kind of leverage exists before that. US knows about the limits of its leverage with Russia, China, Pakistan and a hostile Iran around it in Afghanistan. We had taken US embargoes in our stride before in a uni-polar world and we can still take it now when the world is almost multi-polar. We don't have to shut the routes now, Yanks have to do a lot before that for example, ending the non-NATO ally status for Pakistan, Economic sanctions, declaring Pakistan a terrorist state or sanctioning ISI, freezing our worldwide assets and bank accounts so on and so forth and we'll see how far they can go.. so you were wrong because eventually it will be us, who will call the American bluff. I believe US won't go that far (despite many Indians wanting them too) , it's plain lunacy if they take things to that level, they are testing waters to see how far they can go with their leverage before deciding to call it quits. In the meanwhile, we'll quietly keep doing what we have been doing and the Yanks can't do s*** about it.

Just to give you some food for thought before I conclude, Yanks have lost a lot of clout and credibility post Crimea and Syria, still if that doesn't ring you any bell, nothing will.

 

[Falcon26]

How weak do you think are we then. Do you recall the victor among David vs Goliath. Is USA vs PAK today's David vs Goliath. Some smart ancestor once said that no person or entity should be looked upon as too weak and conversely, none should be considered too strong.

That could very well be true but it’s not how relations between states work.

 

[Canuck786]

That could very well be true but it’s not how relations between states work.

You are right when one state says that we don't want your money nor friendship, the other should respect it, shut up and move aside. Right?