Armstrong
RETIRED TTA
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My two cents on what we can or cannot learn from Turkey :
Democracy, liberalism, women's emancipation, religious pluralism, economic independence and growth, along with national cohesion, is something that we can, and should, readily learn from Turkey.
However, at the same time, we must realize that none of the above, with certain provisions, are exclusive of Islam and as such calling an Islamic State as Secular is simply a moot point. For example, the production or consumption of Alcohol or of prostitution as a business model, would be a big No in a state with Islam as its dominant culture and thats exactly what I meant previously when I mentioned 'with certain provisions'. A ban on alcohol would be there simply because just as marijuana (a very mild intoxicant) is considered a socially unacceptable drug in a country like the United States and many the world over, Alcohol is thought of in the same light by us, and if one doesn't infringe upon individual freedom in the case of one then the principle is equally valid for the other.
However, as it so happens, the Islamic States out there, are not only following a regressive, bigoted and perverted version of Islam but also the societal tendencies in many Muslim majority countries are borderline fascistic. However, if we take Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or any other self-proclaimed Islamic State as a barometer to measure Islam by then we are not only doing grave injustice to Islam but also to an academic discourse on Islam.
Mr.Jinnah said : Everyone, except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal, penal code, it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all to those of each individual; from morality to crime, from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Prophet has enjoined on us that every Musalman should possess a copy of the Quran and be his own priest. Therefore Islam is not merely confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines or rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collective[ly] and individually. (Eid message in September 1945)
And yet he saw no conflict between Islam and democracy, Islam and liberalism, Islam and religious pluralism and the equality of man, when he said : Islam and its idealism have taught democracy. Islam has taught equality, justice and fairplay to everybody. What reason is their for anyone to fear democracy, equality, freedom on the highest standard of integrity and on the basis of fairplay and justice for everybody ..Let us make it (the future constitution of Pakistan), We shall make it and we shall show it to the world. (Address, Bar Association, Karachi, 25 January 1948)
In short, my dear friends, when you judge Islam, don't do so by looking at us - Islamic States, because there is much we do, that Our Prophet would be incapable of.
P.S Deno, my dear sister, most of our women are not samurai sword wielding Ninjas
, neither my mother, my grandmother, my sisters nor my cousins, wear the Hijab. Us, the Muslim men out there, have a tendency to disguise male chauvinism in the garb of modesty - something that the Prophet would find despicable.
And yeah, Jinnah had an opinion on women too
: I have always maintained that no nation can ever be worthy of its existence that cannot take its women along with the men. No struggle can ever succeed without women participating side by side with men. There are two powers in the world; one is the sword and the other is the pen. There is a great competition and rivalry between the two. There is a third power stronger than both, that of the women. (Speech at Islamia College for women March 25, 1940.)
Democracy, liberalism, women's emancipation, religious pluralism, economic independence and growth, along with national cohesion, is something that we can, and should, readily learn from Turkey.
However, at the same time, we must realize that none of the above, with certain provisions, are exclusive of Islam and as such calling an Islamic State as Secular is simply a moot point. For example, the production or consumption of Alcohol or of prostitution as a business model, would be a big No in a state with Islam as its dominant culture and thats exactly what I meant previously when I mentioned 'with certain provisions'. A ban on alcohol would be there simply because just as marijuana (a very mild intoxicant) is considered a socially unacceptable drug in a country like the United States and many the world over, Alcohol is thought of in the same light by us, and if one doesn't infringe upon individual freedom in the case of one then the principle is equally valid for the other.
However, as it so happens, the Islamic States out there, are not only following a regressive, bigoted and perverted version of Islam but also the societal tendencies in many Muslim majority countries are borderline fascistic. However, if we take Pakistan or Afghanistan or Iran or any other self-proclaimed Islamic State as a barometer to measure Islam by then we are not only doing grave injustice to Islam but also to an academic discourse on Islam.
Mr.Jinnah said : Everyone, except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal, penal code, it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all to those of each individual; from morality to crime, from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Prophet has enjoined on us that every Musalman should possess a copy of the Quran and be his own priest. Therefore Islam is not merely confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines or rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collective[ly] and individually. (Eid message in September 1945)
And yet he saw no conflict between Islam and democracy, Islam and liberalism, Islam and religious pluralism and the equality of man, when he said : Islam and its idealism have taught democracy. Islam has taught equality, justice and fairplay to everybody. What reason is their for anyone to fear democracy, equality, freedom on the highest standard of integrity and on the basis of fairplay and justice for everybody ..Let us make it (the future constitution of Pakistan), We shall make it and we shall show it to the world. (Address, Bar Association, Karachi, 25 January 1948)
In short, my dear friends, when you judge Islam, don't do so by looking at us - Islamic States, because there is much we do, that Our Prophet would be incapable of.
P.S Deno, my dear sister, most of our women are not samurai sword wielding Ninjas
, neither my mother, my grandmother, my sisters nor my cousins, wear the Hijab. Us, the Muslim men out there, have a tendency to disguise male chauvinism in the garb of modesty - something that the Prophet would find despicable. And yeah, Jinnah had an opinion on women too
: I have always maintained that no nation can ever be worthy of its existence that cannot take its women along with the men. No struggle can ever succeed without women participating side by side with men. There are two powers in the world; one is the sword and the other is the pen. There is a great competition and rivalry between the two. There is a third power stronger than both, that of the women. (Speech at Islamia College for women March 25, 1940.)
) to look like a figging tent). And you know the strangest thing is that whenever an Arab sees this...they're like what the frig ? This is part of our bedouin culture and not religion.
