Is the pro-Israel lobby panicking?

[Righteous_Fire]

As I hope you will acknowledge, this kind of religious justification for a territorial dispute would not hold up in any court of law. You can't evict someone from their house and take over their property because your religion says so. Yet this is exactly what the Jews have done in Palestine. The only reason they got away with it is because the Western superpowers backed them.

Nice reply !

 

[Thomas]

Nice reply !

no they gained their territory under authority of the U.N. in 1948 and then gained more land after fighting two wars with the Arabs. The Arabs upset that they ended up being no match for the Israeli's. wanted the land back they lost. Israel did not want to give any land back at first becuase they figured that Arabs would just attack them again. Eventually they did give the Sinai back to Egypt. after Egypt made peace with them. They have been open to talks with Syria over the Golan heights. But Syria has never dealt in good faith with them. The Palestinians had the chance under the Oslo peace accords to reach a lasting peace with Israel. But Arafat decided he wanted to squeeze more concessions out of Israel through the Infatada. That only hardened Israel's stance. Now Hamas and the Palestinian authority are locked in a defacto civil war and there will never be peace with that situation.

Bottom line is Israel is not going anywhere. You might as well get used to it. And make peace instead of war. As far as the religious aspect I hoped you might acknowledge Gods hand in matters. He can influence nations as easy as individuals. The Jews believe it and act according to it. So far they seem to be proved right.

 

[Thomas]

As I hope you will acknowledge, this kind of religious justification for a territorial dispute would not hold up in any court of law.

what will hold up in a court of law is the U.N. mandate for Israels creation.

 

[Thomas]

Many of us believe in God but that shouldn't be relevant here.

But you are right about Israel. They have turned what should have been a secular territorial dispute into a religious war.

It's always been about religion all the way from the time of Abraham. The territorial dispute is just the justification. There is a reason Palestine is called the Holy Lands.

 

[Developereo]

no they gained their territory under authority of the U.N. in 1948 and then gained more land after fighting two wars with the Arabs. The Arabs upset that they ended up being no match for the Israeli's. wanted the land back they lost. Israel did not want to give any land back at first becuase they figured that Arabs would just attack them again. Eventually they did give the Sinai back to Egypt. after Egypt made peace with them. They have been open to talks with Syria over the Golan heights. But Syria has never dealt in good faith with them. The Palestinians had the chance under the Oslo peace accords to reach a lasting peace with Israel. But Arafat decided he wanted to squeeze more concessions out of Israel through the Infatada. That only hardened Israel's stance. Now Hamas and the Palestinian authority are locked in a defacto civil war and there will never be peace with that situation.

Oh, give it a rest!
You keep repeating the same lines over and over again but they have explained by the BBC documentary I mentioned.

Promises and Betrayals: explains the history behind these swindles to which you keep referring. The UN 'mandate' and everything else are a coverup for the Western superpower illegal landgrab.

Bottom line is Israel is not going anywhere. You might as well get used to it. And make peace instead of war.

That's the language of banditry, not reason.

As far as the religious aspect I hoped you might acknowledge Gods hand in matters. He can influence nations as easy as individuals. The Jews believe it and act according to it. So far they seem to be proved right.

By your logic, since you claim to be a Native American, the treatment of Native Americans was God's will and the European settlers were only doing God's work.

 

[Developereo]

It's always been about religion all the way from the time of Abraham. The territorial dispute is just the justification.

Wrong again. It has always been a territorial dispute. Israel turned it into a holy war.

It was the Zionists, not the Muslims, who introduced religious fundamentalism into Middle East politics.

Incidently, it was the Jews who introduced political terrorism into Middle East politics by attacking British civilians. The Arabs learned terrorism from the Jews.

 

[tallman]

Israel has nothing to worry about.

AIPAC is just the tip of the iceberg. The real workhorse for Israeli interests is the American media which is utterly and completely dominated by Zionists (both Jewish and Christian).

The media controls public opinion and the American media dominates the globe. In particular, it sets the tone for most of the Western media about what is and is not acceptable.

No Western politician in their right mind will stand out from the pack and critisize Israel. The media will destroy their career.

One of the biggest reasons USA supports Israel, it is the only country in the Middle that resembles the US in its values and democracy. Both countries have long-recognized that their mutual interests of deterring war, promoting stability and eventually achieving peace are only possible if the United States continues to stand firmly behind Israel.

In addition Israeli created the only liberal democracy in the middle east giving its 1 million israel arabs more rights/freedoms than any country in the region.

Lot of americans think the reason Arabs hate Israel is because Arabs are racist and religious bigots that would not even speak out if another Islamic County was doing the same thing Israel has done. Atrocities such as burning Christians alive,, burying women alive and 911 is not doing much to change Americans minds eithers. I was born in Pakistan and even I can understand that...you cant explain or justify such thing in the 21st century....

 

[Developereo]

One of the reasons USA supports Israel, the only country in the Middle is that that it resembles the US in its values and democracy, is very strong.

Israel is a sham democracy. It grants automatic citizenship to Jews anywhere in the world and refuses to let millions of displaced Arabs return to their homes because it would dilute the "Jewish nature of Israel". Anybody can trump up a fake "democracy" if you filter out people who might vote differently than you want them to.

In addition Israeli created the only liberal democracy in the middle east giving its 1 million israel arabs more rights/freedoms than any country in the region.

I guess these Israeli Arabs didn't get your message.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Palestinians evicted in Jerusalem

Lot of americans think the reason Arabs hate Israel is because Arabs are racist and religious bigots

Lots of Americans are brainwashed by Zionist media. Speaking of religious bigots, it is Israel who are the biggest bigots. Israel is the only country on Earth that enshrines religious bigotry in it's constitution. Any Jew anywhere on Earth is automatically an Israeli citizen. Millions of Muslim and Christian Arabs were thrown out of their homes to make room for God's Chosen People and these Arabs cannot return to their ancestral homes.

Atrocities such as burning Christians alive,, burying women alive and 911 is not doing much to change Americans minds eithers.

Sectarian violence occurs in many countries and in every religion, including Hinduism and Christianity, but the Western media tends to focus mostly on crimes by Muslims. Come back after you have read this thread and the articles referenced.

I was born in Pakistan and even I can understand that...you cant explain or justify such thing in the 21st century....

Clearly you have issues of your own with bigotry and racism. Counseling would be advisable...

 

[Thomas]

Wrong again. It has always been a territorial dispute. Israel turned it into a holy war.

It was the Zionists, not the Muslims, who introduced religious fundamentalism into Middle East politics.

Incidently, it was the Jews who introduced political terrorism into Middle East politics by attacking British civilians. The Arabs learned terrorism from the Jews.

Religious fundamentalism has been around for thousands of years. And some Muslims have practiced it for hundreds at least.

Some groups of Jews did practice Terrorism against the British. They were known as the "Irgun".

Members of the Irgun came mostly from Beitar and from the Revisionist Party both in Palestine and abroad. The Revisionist Movement made up a popular backing for the underground organization. Ze'ev Jabotinsky, founder of Revisionist Zionism, was the commander of the organization until he died. He formulated the general realm of operation, regarding Restraint and the end thereof, and was the inspiration for the organization overall. An additional major source of idealogical inspiration was the poetry of Uri Zvi Greenberg. The symbol of the organization, with the motto רק כך (Only Thus), alongside a hand holding a rifle in the foreground of all of mandatory Palestine (both sides of the Jordan River), symbolized the striving for Hebrew independence over the entire land of Israel, to be achieved only by the power of "Jewish weapons".

The number of members of the Irgun varied from a few hundred to a few thousand. Most of its members were people who accepted the organization's command, under which they carried out various operations and filled positions, largely in opposition to British law. Most of them were "ordinary" people, who held regular jobs, and only a few dozen worked full time in the Irgun.

The Irgun disagreed with the policy of the Yishuv and with the World Zionist Organization, both with regard to strategy and basic ideology and with regard to PR and military tactics, such as use of force for Zionist ends, attitude towards the Arabs during the riots, and relations with the British mandatory government. Therefore the Irgun tended to ignore the decisions made by the Zionist leadership and the Yishuv's institutions.

Some accounts of Arab terrorism under British rule.

1929 Hebron massacre - the mass murder of sixty-seven Jews on 23 and 24 August 1929 in Hebron, then part of the British Mandate of Palestine, by Arabs incited to violence by false rumors that Jews were massacring Arabs in Jerusalem and seizing control of Muslim holy places. This massacre, together with that of Safed, sent shock waves through Jewish communities in Palestine and across the world.

The survivors were evacuated from Hebron by the British authorities. Many returned in 1931, but almost all left again during 1936-1939. It also led to the re-organization and development of the Jewish paramilitary organization, the Haganah, which later became the nucleus of the Israel Defense Forces

1929 Safed massacre - 1929 Safed massacre took place on 29 August during the 1929 Palestine riots. Eighteen Jews were killed (some sources say twenty) and eighty wounded. The main Jewish street was looted and burned. these are just a couple there are other incidents.

 

[gambit]

this is not a scientific issue to have a "source", rather it's an analysis.

Any analysis should be based upon quantifiable data and the sources of the data themselves should also be credible. So far there are no credible quantifiable data that indicate the US mainstream media deliberately overemphasize Islam while at the same time suppresses other religions as elements in their reportage. Atheist bank robbers do not shout 'Darwin is great' in performing the deed, do they?

what about hollywood movies how many depicts muslim or arabs as heroes? and how many depicts them as bloodthirsty and primitive savages?

In order for Hollyweird to portray a demographic as 'primitive savages', there must be a dominant culture to which the intended victims are held against and to be gauged. The US mainstream media and Hollyweird usually regards themselves as guardians of freedom of expression nonpareil. So when they, the US mainstream media and Hollyweird, sees another culture that forces women to be enshrouded and restricts freedoms of expressions, some of them will express their opinions as to how they view that culture. There are plenty of individuals and organizations, such as CAIR, devoted to counter those views. Sorry...But the intellectual chaos that is Hollywood cannot be held to be emblematic of the claim that there is a concerted effort in the US to overemphasize Islam while downplaying other religions. Ever watch HBO's series 'Big Love'? Look it up and see what religion is the focus.

 

[Developereo]

Religious fundamentalism has been around for thousands of years. And some Muslims have practiced it for hundreds at least.

The issue is religious fundamentalism in the Middle East conflict. It was the Zionists who introduced religious fundamentalism as a weapon in Palestine.

Some groups of Jews did practice Terrorism against the British. They were known as the "Irgun".

Stern gang, Haganah...
There were any number of terrorist atrocities by these groups.

these are just a couple there are other incidents.

There was terrorism on both sides. I notice you conveniently chose to leave out Jewish terrorism. The difference is that the Jewish terrorists have been treated as heroes in Israel as well as the US. Double standards as usual.

 

[tallman]

Israel is a sham democracy. It grants automatic citizenship to Jews anywhere in the world and refuses to let millions of displaced Arabs return to their homes because it would dilute the "Jewish nature of Israel". Anybody can trump up a fake "democracy" if you filter out people who might vote differently than you want them to.

What ever Israel is its a sucess,, building a thriving properous democracy in area . Where Arab countries are still fascist, autocratic or theocratic, where women are subjugated and minorities persecuted. among countries that are rife with poverty and have been for centuries. What is the differance in per capita income of an Israeli compared to a Pakistani,,, 20,000 vs 1000

Counseling would be advisable...

Counseling would be advisable to people that keep doing the same thing the same way for over a 1000 years and keep thinking they are going to get differant results.

I guess these Israeli Arabs didn't get your message.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Palestinians evicted in Jerusalem

Lots of Americans are brainwashed by Zionist media. Speaking of religious bigots, it is Israel who are the biggest bigots. Israel is the only country on Earth that enshrines religious bigotry in it's constitution. Any Jew anywhere on Earth is automatically an Israeli citizen. Millions of Muslim and Christian Arabs were thrown out of their homes to make room for God's Chosen People and these Arabs cannot return to their ancestral homes.

It was not millions it was not more the the 600,000 Jews that were driven out of Arab Countries after the six day war losing more then the Arabs that left Israel.

Sectarian violence occurs in many countries and in every religion, including Hinduism and Christianity, but the Western media tends to focus mostly on crimes by Muslims. Come back after you have read this thread and the articles referenced.

Really can you remember any one other then Pakistan, Iran or Arab countries where people are burned alive over religion or stoned to death. Let me know....

Clearly you have issues of your own with bigotry and racism. Counseling would be advisable...[/QUOTE]

You are the one that sees this as a clash betwee religions I dont,,,
This Clash between Arabs and the middle east and the Civilized world we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations.. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras, .....a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentalityh that belongs to the 21st Century.

 

[Developereo]

Any analysis should be based upon quantifiable data and the sources of the data themselves should also be credible. So far there are no credible quantifiable data that indicate the US mainstream media deliberately overemphasize Islam while at the same time suppresses other religions as elements in their reportage.

Muslims are relative newcomers to global media compared to Westerners, so don't have established media monitoring tools.
I already posted links to articles in The Guardian and The Washington Post which reference polls and studies demonstrating the effects of the media bias if not the mechanism.

In order for Hollyweird to portray a demographic as 'primitive savages', there must be a dominant culture to which the intended victims are held against and to be gauged. The US mainstream media and Hollyweird usually regards themselves as guardians of freedom of expression nonpareil. So when they, the US mainstream media and Hollyweird, sees another culture that forces women to be enshrouded and restricts freedoms of expressions, some of them will express their opinions as to how they view that culture.

There is more to Arab and Muslim culture than one that "forces women to be enshrouded and restricts freedoms of expressions". After all, there are many cultures that restrict freedom of speech or commit horrible crimes against women (from widespread female infanticide to widow burning to institutionalized child prostitution), but Hollywood portrays a balanced view of those cultures instead of focussing excessively on the negative.

Stereotypes of Arabs and Muslims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Developereo]

Really can you remember any one other then Pakistan, Iran or Arab countries where people are burned alive over religion or stoned to death. Let me know....

Mistaken for a Christian, Hindu girl burnt alive | Spero News
A Hindu extremist mob entered a Christian orphanage in Sambalpur and gang-raped 20 year old Rajan Majhi, a child-care worker. Mistaken for a Christian, the Hindu woman was then burnt alive.

Graham Staines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's lots more if you'll bother to look around.

a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentalityh that belongs to the 21st Century.

No. I would say it is a clash between a mentality that finds justification in a 5000 year old religious "Covenant", and a 21st century secular world.

 

[tallman]

Mistaken for a Christian, Hindu girl burnt alive | Spero News
A Hindu extremist mob entered a Christian orphanage in Sambalpur and gang-raped 20 year old Rajan Majhi, a child-care worker. Mistaken for a Christian, the Hindu woman was then burnt alive.

Graham Staines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's lots more if you'll bother to look around.


No. I would say it is a clash between a mentality that finds justification in a 5000 year old religious "Covenant", and a 21st century secular world.

Are you actually trying to justfiy burning 8 people alive....??? in the 21st century

But at least India did something about it The trial ended in August 2003 and judgement was passed in September 2003 convicting Dara Singh and Hembram. In spite of Gladys Staines' appeal for clemency, Dara Singh was sentenced to death and 12 others were given life imprisonment[2].

However, the death sentence was commuted to life imprisonment in May 2005 by the Orissa High Court[4], who also acquitted the other appellants.

What do you think will happen to those the burnt the 8 christians alive.