Is The JF17 Thunder Stil Relevant Now

[Kinshuk]

why indians were kept off limits? no one was to bee seen in the picture?

However at this moment PAK-FA specs. are not known. Just flying a frame influenced from JF-17 blk2 does not tell that it could beat JF-17 in itzs present form. PAK-FA is still at prototype1 phase while JF-17 is fully integrated into PAF and has been tested against F-16.
In any case the major difference between JF-17 and PAK-FA will remain that former was custome built for PAF requirements, where as later is not build specifically for InAF.

I can only laugh after reading your post. Custom built? SU 30 mki this is what you call custom built, India wanted a 2 seater, they got it, India wanted Israel avionics, got it, India wanted french systems as well, again got it. Thats what you call custom built.

JF 17 has nothing so far. You have not much choice whatsoever in choosing the engine. Avionics are chinese and will remain as such, What customisation was done on it?

Regarding PAK FA..... India will modify it as it wants it to be, FGFA a 2 seater, India will even develop avionics and some other systems I can't recall right now, But easily available. Please read or provide a link before posting thrash.

 

[Storm Force]

jxx i keep hereing is arriving.

JXX is now where near to fly its a mere concept like INDIA MCA.

And ven wen it arrives say 2025 DOES NOT MEAN china will sell it or PAKISTAN could even afford it in 2025+

 

[saurabh]

jxx i keep hereing is arriving.

JXX is now where near to fly its a mere concept like INDIA MCA.

And ven wen it arrives say 2025 DOES NOT MEAN china will sell it or PAKISTAN could even afford it in 2025+

Jf17 was built with specific purpose and cost. It fills the role for which it was built. J10 etc will have their own role. You cannot replace a plane meant for certain requirement with other. Its not practical.
Just like India is going to replace mig21 with lca and not mki or mrca. So why this question. You have requirement for a plane, it is required now, and requirement gets fulfilled. Why question that.

 

[Kinshuk]

Well storm force, please look at the adversary also, Pak is a potent AF, your idea of dropping j 17 is like dropping the idea of lca mmrca etc... But my say is that Pak should also look for some french or other western fighter. Relying 100% on china is anytime stupid not saying that they aren't your frend, they are closest friends, But still you need very advanced technology which China cannot provide for at least next 10 years.

See please don't take the comment otherwise. Russia develop good fighters but we replace the avionics from west package, So china has develop good J 10 but that doesn't mean the whole suit is up to the mark,

In the end Get these. and Get something which is truely world class and not just good.

 

[Imran Khan]

Well storm force, please look at the adversary also, Pak is a potent AF, your idea of dropping j 17 is like dropping the idea of lca mmrca etc... But my say is that Pak should also look for some french or other western fighter. Relying 100% on china is anytime stupid not saying that they aren't your frend, they are closest friends, But still you need very advanced technology which China cannot provide for at least next 10 years.

See please don't take the comment otherwise. Russia develop good fighters but we replace the avionics from west package, So china has develop good J 10 but that doesn't mean the whole suit is up to the mark,

In the end Get these. and Get something which is truely world class and not just good.

we just waiting for you bro.finish your MMRCA so world feel free to sell us others fighters select one and leave others for us.

 

[blain2]

MY QUESTION STIL is unanswered.

SHOULD PAF stil induct a mid tech THUNDER with no western radar or weapons and standard chinease radar to FACE OFF SU30MKI today and til 2017 AND then FACE off against fifth generation PAK FA.

Will PAF have anthing left in its pockets IF IT BLOWS $2.5 billion on a THUNDER programme.

OR should they go double even triple J10 ORDER now

36-40 is too small an order

PAF is catering to multiple threats. When the IAF has an all-5th generation fleet then we can say JF-17 is obsolete. This will not be the case for the next 20 years or so at least.

PAF has a requirement to retire upwards of 250 older aircraft with new airframes. This is the raison detre for the JF-17 program. While you will have to contend with fatigued airframes on the Bisons, Mirage 2000s and Fulcrums along with Jaguars, PAF will be fielding brand new airframes during the years up to the point IAF will go for the PAK-FA. By the time, PAK-FA comes around, PAF will have to look at what Chinese are able to provide vs. weighing their options on the F-35 option.

The JF-17 program is essential for a viable PAF to carry on its program of upgrades and evolution over this decade. It took IAF 6 years to put into operation an MKI which fulfills all of their ASRs. Even if the IAF start off on the drawing board with the Russians, considerable avionics and weapons may be integrated sourced from Western or indigenous sources. All of this takes time. The Russian AF is talking about getting this platform operational in the 2015 timeframe (although even a proper Russian engine and avionics suite is nowhere close to being available) without taking into account any of the potential delays. It will take IAF an additional couple of years to operationalize the aircraft with their specifications to start induction around the 2016-17 timeframe. To build up inventory it will take an additional 3-4 years.

Point being there is a long time to get there before this capability can be effectively deployed against the PAF. In the meantime, IAF will have no options but to rely on 4th generation aircraft. These platforms can be deterred with the JF-17 along with other acquisitions PAF is looking at.

 

[saurabh]

we just waiting for you bro.finish your MMRCA so world feel free to sell us others fighters select one and leave others for us.

Why not buy the one that we buy. Than we wont have to fight on defence forums that our plane is better than yours!!

 

[Imran Khan]

Why not buy the one that we buy. Than we wont have to fight on defence forums that our plane is better than yours!!

i don't think so if we both buy refale they will be refale-pe1 and refale-ie1 then we fight for ie pe models.same like some BD members post that there mig-29 are best mig-29 in world.

 

[Kinshuk]

Why not buy the one that we buy. Than we wont have to fight on defence forums that our plane is better than yours!!

 

[BATMAN]

Well storm force, please look at the adversary also, Pak is a potent AF, your idea of dropping j 17 is like dropping the idea of lca mmrca etc... But my say is that Pak should also look for some french or other western fighter. Relying 100% on china is anytime stupid not saying that they aren't your frend, they are closest friends, But still you need very advanced technology which China cannot provide for at least next 10 years.

See please don't take the comment otherwise. Russia develop good fighters but we replace the avionics from west package, So china has develop good J 10 but that doesn't mean the whole suit is up to the mark,

In the end Get these. and Get something which is truely world class and not just good.

Let us clear few things here lca and mrca are two different aircrafts.... right?
JF-17 is not Chinese tech. it is Pak China technology and so is FC20 and possibly Jxx too. There is nothing better than to rely on oneself.
Since you are claiming it stupid to rely on China thna care to explain why and what is wise in relying on Russia?

 

[BATMAN]

I can only laugh after reading your post. Custom built? SU 30 mki this is what you call custom built, India wanted a 2 seater, they got it, India wanted Israel avionics, got it, India wanted french systems as well, again got it. Thats what you call custom built.

JF 17 has nothing so far. You have not much choice whatsoever in choosing the engine. Avionics are chinese and will remain as such, What customisation was done on it?

Regarding PAK FA..... India will modify it as it wants it to be, FGFA a 2 seater, India will even develop avionics and some other systems I can't recall right now, But easily available. Please read or provide a link before posting thrash.

You should cry on the irony that no indians were invited on the first flight!!!
JF-17 is nothing but indians are requesting Russinas to incorporate JF-17 features! don't you see the obsession with delta wing is over?
Whereas source of InAF specifications is Pakistani defence forums, you collected all the knowledge from Pakistani defence forums and sent it to Russia and now claim it to be your own hard work!
Please.... stop talking about what india WILL develop.... as we are still waiting for things which were talked even 40 years ago.

 

[Luftwaffe]

And that is why i was saying people of Pakistan were in poverty and hunger for the past so many years what difference did all of these govt made after coming in power....
North Korea for the past 50+ is under sanctions and all sorts of problems looming there, looking at Pakistan i believe its is in better conditions..There is only one way to go over ride sequence...Spend whatever we have to strengthen our Armed Forces...Agree or not but this is the way there is no other short cuts or loans or anything else..i still believe Pakistan Govt has funds!

 

[blain2]

I can only laugh after reading your post. Custom built? SU 30 mki this is what you call custom built, India wanted a 2 seater, they got it, India wanted Israel avionics, got it, India wanted french systems as well, again got it. Thats what you call custom built.

JF 17 has nothing so far. You have not much choice whatsoever in choosing the engine. Avionics are chinese and will remain as such, What customisation was done on it?

Regarding PAK FA..... India will modify it as it wants it to be, FGFA a 2 seater, India will even develop avionics and some other systems I can't recall right now, But easily available. Please read or provide a link before posting thrash.

You need to look up the definition of custom-built. There is nothing "custom built" about the MKI. Its only custom upgraded as is the case with all other aircraft bought off the shelf. IAF put certain avionics and MFDs from foreign sources along with a few local systems.

As much as it may bother you to see this, the only "Custom-built" aircraft in the Indo-Pakistan context are the JF-17 and LCA. For the former, it began with the ASRs from the AHQ, PAF and fulfills all of the flight regime and avionics requirements of the PAF in its final form (the same goes for LCA). The PAF has a choice of Western or Chinese avionics and will stick with what makes sense to it from a capabilities and cost standpoint.

On the MKI front, IAF is not the only country with such add ons. The MKM has just as many upgrades and integrations. Hype built up by fanboys aside, MKI specifications are similar to any others that are done for countries when they buy an aircraft.

Another great example of custom-built is the F-16E/F for the UAEAF. MKI does not qualify any which way for the "custom-built" title.

Trust me on this when I say this, even with MMRCA, your Air Force will have to pick and choose between options that they may not want. This is the issue that all airforces face when they have to fit their requirements with designs and capabilities developed for others.

 

[keldorn]

JF-17 is important and relevant for PAF, not only just in terms of replacing/retiring older aircraft, but the experience that is gained from the manufacturing process, building/maintaining etc. Not to mention the benefits of having a competitively priced and featured aircraft for the export market. This experience will enhance the evolution of current and future projects between Pakistan and China.

 

[sathruvinasakh]

I just hit the bulleye with my expectations.I thought that much similar topic will be initiated and it does happen just like europeans feeling with their typhoon and Rafael.Mostly UK is feeling so nervous that its induction of JSF is no where near sights while Russia insisting of having its first fighter in airfroce by 2015.
There were many concerns and appreciations over the world just in one day.
Did I see any country except India feeling proud about the flight? NO
A Russian 5th gen fighter is a nail in the coffin for many many countries world over.

And a good news to people wanting PAK-FA is that, its naval version is on drawing boards.Kremlin is insisting of having it on its future carriers along with supplying the same to Indians.

After reading many replies in this thread, there seems to be no way out for pakistani people to avoid PAKFA.

All you people can do is make china hasten their 5th gen program and look for a possible buying.

IT was made clear that atleast 750-800 PAK-FA/FGFA will be produced.Of which Indians intending to procure 250-280 including single and dual seat ones.
Another threat in the form of JSF of India comes from their own AMCA which they boast as advanced medium combat aircraft and wants to procure some 300 aircrafts. When india finishes thier all deliveries,it will be around 600 5th gen most optimistic estimates 2025-2030.
So pakistan still has lot of time ,even to start a new 5th gen fighter with china from scratch and buy in numbers.