Is The JF17 Thunder Stil Relevant Now

[MAB]

The primary focus of the thunder is to replace aging aircrafts and give PAF bvr capability which it is doing so I believe we should still induct them

 

[Imran Khan]

Actually, you should try to develop more industries. Remove poverty. Before 90s, west didn't considered India like it is doing now. Its just money game. You have money, You get respects and toys like this.

yes very true we need industry we need good gov we need finsh terarr we need finish powerty.then we can stand up

 

[Kinshuk]

I think I answered your question Storm.please advise

 

[saurabh]

yes very true we need industry we need good gov we need finsh terarr we need finish powerty.then we can stand up

Well ok, now when I think, every country tries for what I said. So I admit I didnt think before posting. But then still, blaming USA wont get you anywhere. Do you really believe any other country in place of USA would have acted differently?

 

[HAIDER]

Haider People IN pakistan and indeed on this very forum have been burying their heads in the sand.

We first herd of India joining Russia on a NEW russian fighter (5th generation) in 2006-2007. We all laughed it off as Russia cannot do this and india will not be allowed to join.

Well TODAY we all saw the evidence.

Let me tell you know I think the PAK FA is nearly 60-70% ready.

The Radar is virtually ready and i have now doubt a NEW 3 dimensional TVC engine is just round the cornor. Russians have always built good powerful engines but poor on maintenance.

The QUESTION how long will a THUNDER or indeed a F16/52 last against a FIGHTER like PAK FA.

They are both 1.5 generations behind the PAK FA.

If you cant see it HOW YOU GOING TO KILL IT.

PAK FA will pik up Thunders from 250 km away based on ibris AESA radar.

Novatar BVR KILLS AT 200KM and travels at mach 5..

With 3rd generation radars on both Thunder/F16/52 (NON AESA) AND COUPLED with PAK FA design the PAF won,t see the indian FGFA unless he is within 30 miles.

its too late as the F15 pilot found out against F22 with kill ratios of 144- nil.

You cant kill what you cant see or SEE TO LATE

First it was planned India will be 50 percent partner in development of this plane. Later Russian ejected India from this joint venture and went solow .. Russian are now pure business men, they will ask thier price to any nation who wants to buy the plane. Plus Russian will manipulate the price of F35 too. Let s see Russian price tag for this plane and how they charge for extras, it will come with lots of bugs. Anyway it was PAK-FA first flight. Remember F22 program been launched many years ago and still not mature.

 

[BATMAN]

why indians were kept off limits? no one was to bee seen in the picture?

However at this moment PAK-FA specs. are not known. Just flying a frame influenced from JF-17 blk2 does not tell that it could beat JF-17 in itzs present form. PAK-FA is still at prototype1 phase while JF-17 is fully integrated into PAF and has been tested against F-16.
In any case the major difference between JF-17 and PAK-FA will remain that former was custome built for PAF requirements, where as later is not build specifically for InAF.

 

[Imran Khan]

Well ok, I admit I didnt think before posting. But then still, blaming USA wont get you anywhere. Do you really believe any other country in place of USA would have acted differently?

not b laming i point out policy mess.now when we see our whole policy we sucs we have to do some thing or just wait?. we have to do and as i see we need to change our whole policy arabs which got benifts from pakistan and use us were they are now? no were .we don't recognise israil but they enjoy with them.afghans and cia paid jihad what we earn TTP talibans kashmir jihad and indo russian hostile.USA we suck them and continuing it but we got kick only.westren friends need money which we don't have bacause of our policy.we have best country even we make it toirst atractive we can earn 15bn per year but we make our country terarr symbol.****.

 

[Storm Force]

Haider plz see post about INDO RUSSIAN agreement on PAK FA december 2009

I could post another 100 links if you want

Russia, India to advance deal on PAK-FA fighter variant

 

[Imran Khan]

83 millions per f-35 if its same for pak -fa india can buy easy 150 of them money is no matter.

 

[Kinshuk]

First it was planned India will be 50 percent partner in development of this plane. Later Russian ejected India from this joint venture and went solow .. Russian are now pure business men, they will ask thier price to any nation who wants to buy the plane. Plus Russian will manipulate the price of F35 too. Let s see Russian price tag for this plane and how they charge for extras, it will come with lots of bugs. Anyway it was PAK-FA first flight. Remember F22 program been launched many years ago and still not mature.

Wrong, funding is the word, not development. Lol India developing 50% of pakfa, what a joke, and FYI We are still going to introduce 50% monet but 25 % contribution,

Bro it is business only which makes you a developed person intitution or a country, please come out of this eternal love and stuff, No country has such thing for any, ya faith, common interest, culture do exist, Sukhoi is a business project so whats wrong in it? thats how the system works, what do you expect from sukhoi to give it to us for free???

Just because of that AC carrier deal people carry this perception, but read more about it, and stop using RUSSIA everywhere, it is the company which increases the prices, Putin won't do this accounting stuff. SU 30 MKI is one of the cheapest of most of the jets in the same league same with other weapons. So stop questioning that.

 

[Storm Force]

You see folks This is just the prototype flight.

Russia has estimated 5to 7 years more work and estimated cost of $8 billion dollars.

They want indian money $4billion to help finish of the engine sensor fusion work ramcoatig technology and compsites tech additions. As well as deveope a range of new air/ground strike weapons.

Thats why INDIA WILL OWN 25% OF PAK FA

 

[saurabh]

not b laming i point out policy mess.now when we see our whole policy we sucs we have to do some thing or just wait?. we have to do and as i see we need to change our whole policy arabs which got benifts from pakistan and use us were they are now? no were .we don't recognise israil but they enjoy with them.afghans and cia paid jihad what we earn TTP talibans kashmir jihad and indo russian hostile.USA we suck them and continuing it but we got kick only.westren friends need money which we don't have bacause of our policy.we have best country even we make it toirst atractive we can earn 15bn per year but we make our country terarr symbol.****.

I believe Pak gov should deviate a large portion of its funds from military to infrastructure. Your nukes and friend in north is more than enough deterrence for any possible war. So you should spend that money in development. Pakistan cannot compete with India in this arm race for long in the current state of economy. After all, our growth in economy will also increase the difference in armaments, both in numbers and quality.

 

[Windjammer]

The thread is irrelevant since it's questioning the relevance of JF-17.
A reminder is in place that when Russia unveiled the prototype MIG-35, it was hailed a winner soon after the project was cancelled.
The PAK-FA has just taken to air and even IF it goes through, the earliest induction into Squadron service is not likely for a decade and looking at the roller coaster involving the Aircraft carrier, period is any one's guess. On the other hand JF-17 is entering Squadron service and is primarily intended to replace PAF's A-5s, F-7s and Mirage aircraft and is designed to meet the threat pertaining over the next 15 years and in due course, no doubt the Thunder will have it's capabilities enhanced.
Please don't assume that even if the PAK-FA enters service, it will be fighting all the wars. Firstly it will need to survive the blender of capability, economically viability and bureaucracy.

 

[TechLahore]

with all the dynamics you just mentioned ^, in the same context, think of the Indian side, what the PAK Fa and MKIs will be backed up by!

the equation is heavily towards their side, we not only lack the numbers but also the tech and the approach.

as per the thread title, JF-17s even J-XXs in 1/3rd to 1/4th the enemies numbers added by a few FC20s is the same equation as is now but even more tilted in Indias favor!

I am assuming Pakistan will not be the aggressor. And that changes things quite a bit. The Indians will not fly Phalcon aircraft over Pakistan or close to the border. They will not have the home ground advantages and a mesh of AA and SAMs on the ground when they pay Pakistani airspace a visit.

There will probably be a play to neutralize enemy AWACS; both sides will try this which will probably cause both sides to maintain these assets only over their own territory, adequately protected. This is fine for us, because again, we are defending.

For us, precision strike early on in any conventional conflict will mostly be conducted via cruise missiles. Therefore, you see Pakistan investing heavily in ground and air launched cruise missiles.

I can also see the short and medium range Hatf ballistic missiles playing a conventional role. So with non-nuclear missile capabilities, you've got over 700+km of enemy territory covered. As long as there is substantial investment in these missiles (which there seems to be), key strategic targets should be taken care of without requiring too many PAF assets to be tied up in deep strike. You can avoid sending a large number of fighters into well defended enemy airspace when you have a strong missile capability. I think we do.

For CAS, I think the JF-17 will do the job nicely because realistically, we're talking operations less than 50-75km across the international border. The Erieye and LR-SAM cover can extend far enough into enemy territory in this CAS scenario, to create an environment where the mission can be conducted succesfully.

Long range SAMs are an important area for us also and if I were a betting man, I would reckon that we will have these in our inventory prior to the PAK-FA becoming operational with the IAF.

I also believe that you are going to see massive use of decoys, drones and EW... that adds another dimension to the conflict.

The Indians invested in the SU-30 and we later went for the Block 52 to acquire a deterrent. There were several years in the middle when we didn't have an aircraft that was matched with the SU-30... but the world didn't end. On the whole, our military deterrent was maintained through 2002 and the post Mumbai scenario. Even if the J-XX is inducted into the PAF a couple of years after the PAK-FA enters the IAF, I don't think that is something to be particularly worried about.

I do feel that the PAF should increase FC-20 numbers. The Chinese are already pretty far along in developing ramjet powered longer range AAMs (beyond SD-10), and it is not unreasonable to expect that we will see these on the FC-20 and on the JF-17.

See AAM reference here: China hints at new air-launched missiles - Jane's Defence Systems News

 

[Adios Amigo]

Jf-17 program will continue, its going no where,with more robust modernization, probably there numbers might drop to 200, but i dont believe less than that.

Secondly FC-20 might be coming a bit early now, may be around 2012 or 2013, if you consider its prototype flew back in 2009, Pushing Chinese to put PAF initial order ahead of theirs, maturity is not the issue here, Its already based on a mature J10 platform. Also the number will surely go up to at least 100, to counter both MMRCA and MKIs, less then that is not gonna work out.

Lastly some guys are getting to optimistic about PAK-FA and forgetting JXX, where as JXX as real as PAK FA, and as per chinese sources Jxx are multiple programs, and they are in prototype stages, I personally believe a median flight somewhere b/w 2011 and 2012, guys suggesting 2015 are to far off reality, and as a Chinese general clearly indicated that they will be inducting them by 2018, same time when India will start inducting PAKFA , for Pakistan, it can take couple of years off from inducting a fifth generation fighter, and carry on completion of its modernization program up till 2020, which i believe will be completed by 2019 as per Air Force Modernization Plan 2019 after 2020 any time may be we will be able to induct Jxx, and there total figure will not cross 50,i.e not more then 3 squadrons, basically it means we will be inducting next generation fighter at least 4 to 5 years after India, so you guys are well ahead in the race.

However having said that, the more time and gap we have in technologies, the greater chances of a nuclear war, because of strategic imbalance, and in order to counter, GOP will Put a lot more focus on PAF now, and divert more resources to meat its need.






Adios