Is the JF-17 Really a Tough Sell for China and Pakistan?

[SipahSalar]

Hare Bhaia calm down. Topic is why Egypt choosing second hand mirage or 2nd F16 for more money than JF17 which is 15 mil $ ? Articles states that's if Egypt goes for mirage or f 16 other will also do the same . As low budget nations also not buying in. So will it be hard to sell ?
Jf 17 is perfectly ment for PAF and it's doing its job Wat it ment to be ...

This article gets alot of things right. The thing is about "prestige". Pakistan-built JF-17 will never have the same prestige as a French Mirage, even if a fully armed JF-17 for $25million will wipe the floor with these Mirages the Egyptians are buying.
It's called Brand recognition. The same reason as some people will prefer to buy an older IPAD 1 instead of Nexus 7, Even if Nexus 7 is head and shoulders above the older IPAD.

 

[ganesh177]

I dont think jf-17 was ever meant for egypt. They have a respectable defence budget and certainly can procure some sensible planes available in the market with the blessings of its arab friends.
JF-17 is meant for cash ridden, poor , and desperate nations who need to showcase the jets in number rather than on efficiency. China have so far found such a customer in pakistan, i am sure there are few others in coming years.

 

[asad71]

Making a good machine and selling it are two different ball games. Pak Def marketing doesn't look competitive. May be they should approach people like Adnan Khasgogri to help.

 

[xyxmt]

JF-17 is a new plane and only been in service for few years, we need to have patience and keep improving it. First fill PAF requirements and then think about selling it. Next show its capabilities in real fights, might not be a bad idea to go for a limited war with India.

 

[thrilainmanila]

People r not fools I think a large reason is they do not want PAC to be involved as they are incapable of fulfilling the suppliers demands they would rather china fully manufacture and provide it, an example of this can be seen with the alkhalid tank several countries like morroco, Bangladesh,Venezuela went to china and purchased the mbt2000
JF17 is pretty inferior to the m2000 and F16 why would a country like Egypt want to buy an inferior plane when it has hundreds of more Modern planes in its fleet .

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There is a customer who already bought 250-300 Fighter Jets !!!

Operational in combat what else is needed

 

[niaz]

Thunder was tailor made or PAF needs which may be different from the requirements of other air forces. Besides, we must remember that fighter export market is highly competitive and aircraft manufacturers employ skilled and wily salesman. The big question remains, if the aircraft was so good, why does not PLAAF make use of it.

In my humble opinion, until the country of origin, that is China, inducts JF-17 in large numbers, export possibilities will remain limited.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Next show its capabilities in real fights, might not be a bad idea to go for a limited war with India.

You dont know how KEEN we are for that

 

[Ind4Ever]

There is a customer who already bought 250-300 Fighter Jets !!!

Operational in combat what else is needed

Khon hey ? 250 Jf17 ? Who is have bhaiii ? Pakistan have 50 JF -17 . If am right. Chinese don't have . So how 250 ?

Thunder was tailor made or PAF needs which may be different from the requirements of other air forces. Besides, we must remember that fighter export market is highly competitive and aircraft manufacturers employ skilled and wily salesman. The big question remains, if the aircraft was so good, why does not PLAAF make use of it.

In my humble opinion, until the country of origin, that is China, inducts JF-17 in large numbers, export possibilities will remain limited.

RIGHTLY SAID . If china buys 2 squadron then confidence will will also increase . Fighters must must have atleast 30 years of life . But JF17 is 17 years if am not wrong. It It also can be increased.

 

[deckingraj]

JF-17 is a new plane and only been in service for few years, we need to have patience and keep improving it. First fill PAF requirements and then think about selling it. Next show its capabilities in real fights, might not be a bad idea to go for a limited war with India.

so you want to go for a limited war with India to showcase JF17 capabilities in order to bag sales...must say that was brilliant

 

[Najam Khan]

JF-17's export orders can't be met before 2016 from Pakistani assembly lines. The roll out of new FC-1 from Chengdu flight center and its evaluation is important for this project. If PLAN/PLAAF plans to induct FC-1 after this evaluation(on which they were not reluctant in past) or agrees for a separate production line for FC-1 then these export orders can be catered early.

Having said that, my assessment is that CATIC and PAC now want revenue from this project. This new FC-1 rollout from Chengdu point to the fact that CATIC wants export orders as well, any potential sale shall include weapons package which would be positive for CATIC/NORINCO and other Chinese companies.

 

[xyxmt]

so you want to go for a limited war with India to showcase JF17 capabilities in order to bag sales...must say that was brilliant

hey US does it

You dont know how KEEN we are for that

yes we know, but only deep inside you heart...short of sending "Attack US" greeting card, we have done everything in our power.

 

[Luftwaffe]

People r not fools I think a large reason is they do not want PAC to be involved as they are incapable of fulfilling the suppliers demands they would rather china fully manufacture and provide it, an example of this can be seen with the alkhalid tank several countries like morroco, Bangladesh,Venezuela went to china and purchased the mbt2000
JF17 is pretty inferior to the m2000 and F16 why would a country like Egypt want to buy an inferior plane when it has hundreds of more Modern planes in its fleet .

Hi, dear indian friend.., PAF already told that JF-17 orders for PAF will be fulfilled before exports, any deal and export production will be carried out by CAC...are we clear on this subject, besides land for another production line has been acquired. Now don't go offtopic alkhalid production line is busy fulfilling PA orders and upgrading other products. Bangladesh and other states had direct deals for different model for MBT and Pakistan had nothing to do with it you are miss informed do update yourself.

Nobody forced JFT upon Egypt the came checked and evaluated multiple platforms...Egypt F-16 are without AMRAAMS toothless to say and non ever compared JFT to F-16. Mirage 2000-9 is superior to JFT but it is the final upgrade as for Thunder it has just started and superior to anything in EAF except F-16s. Comes with variety of munition weapons systems that Dassault might not offer or offer at high costs. Lets look at it Egypt operates 20 mirage 2000 replacing non ROSE upgraded Mirages atleast a squadron with Mirage 2000-5/-9 might makes sense to Egypt and either a squadron of F-7 or Mig-21 replacement with further squadron of Mirage 2000-5. So its EAF strategy they can decide whatever their needs are knowing France will stop weapons/spares in any conflict with israel. As for rafale deal it is under negations discussion if it materialize being expensive but will help alongside Mirages thus making both deals makes sense yet the factor of banning spares/weapons/upgrades is highly likely. Again I would remind you F-16 without alcm and active bvr are toothless against regional powers like israel and Turkey. As for mig-29 deal it is again very expensive to maintain aircraft than buying but good purchase to replace a number of mig-21s. Still large 7 squadron would require replacement being vintage by intl standards and rafale fulcrums can't replace them all some mirages 3/5, mig-21, F-7 unless EAF has a procurement budget for 7 squadrons that account for some $12b or more which is next to impossible since all funding for f-16 20 of them and possible rafale/mirages are coming from Saudi and u.a.e...

 

[SipahSalar]

Egypt needs BVR capability. And JF-17 brought just that to the table. I don't know what they will do for BVR with Mirages, is France selling them any BVR missiles? Because without them they might as well give up. Israel will never allow EAF to have AMRAAMs.

Here is what makes an aircraft good:
50% Pilot skill
5% airframe
5% Engine
20% Radar
20% weapons package

While JF-17's RD-93 is a poor engine, JF-17 did bring other things to the table.
JF-17 brought a strong radar (block-3 will certainly have AESA radar)
And a very strong weapons package
-CM 400AKG is one of the deadliest Anti-Ship missiles available today and the primary reason why Argentina is considering JF-17, so that they can use the CM 400AKG against British Ships.
-SD-10 BVR missile.

Instead Egypt went with Airframe and Engine. Their loss i guess.

 

[ziaulislam]

I dont think jf-17 was ever meant for egypt. They have a respectable defence budget and certainly can procure some sensible planes available in the market with the blessings of its arab friends.
JF-17 is meant for cash ridden, poor , and desperate nations who need to showcase the jets in number rather than on efficiency. China have so far found such a customer in pakistan, i am sure there are few others in coming years.

its all about threat sensing.
does Egypt looks at neighboring particular Israel as a potential threat or not, if yes than it would have gone for either Russian or Chinese /Pakistan thunder but if not it will continue taking the free F-16s from USA.
the failure of jf-17 there is simply due to the political change in government n Egypt