Is the Indian state really secular?

[Suriya]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1055468728798887937

 

[padamchen]

Naah A really secular state will have a Uniform Civil Code.

What do you think @padamchen @pothead @Tom M @jamahir

I'm actually off late daily getting reminded of how I truly was the apex Sanghi and how guys like you and @Shankranthi and @Gadkari and @pothead are sanitizer watered down versions carrying the movement forward on petty small hatreds and losing the chance to be really big.

It's really sad when you as a Sanghi hater talk to Hindus and find them being diplomatic and politically correct and liberal about matters of an ancient living faith thousands of years old in the name of "progress" and "democracy" and "secularism".

As a fundamentalist Zoroastrian, I am fucked both ways.

Cheers, Doc

I agree. The UCC is a must for India to become an actual secular state.

What is necessary for India to actually become secular is leave religion to the people.

The state and judiciary should just stay out.

Period.

Treat people as people. Indians. Only Indians.

Their faith is their personal.matter.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Flash_Ninja]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1055468728798887937

lol even in their internal issues they have to mention Pakistan

So obsessed

 

[pothead]

It's really sad when you as a Sanghi hater talk to Hindus and find them being diplomatic and politically correct and liberal about matters of an ancient living faith thousands of years old in the name of "progress" and "democracy" and "secularism".

I think you missed the beat there.
There are core religious practices & there are core social practices.

At many times our social practices are linked to our religious practices.
We as Hindu civilization have changed our social practices so many times over centuries.
Even certain religious practices have changed and evolved through consensus.

When we distinguish between the two, the social ones needs to change with times and at times need a prod from law & legislation.
Religious practices ALWAYS must be done with consensus within the religious group.
Neither Law & Legislation have any role to play in these.

As far as I am concerned constitution is a negotiated contract between people & govt to make people's life better, to empower people. When it starts encroaching on people's lives when the contract originally enacted explicitly gives rights under article 25 for religious freedom, then all bets are off.

 

[Divergent]

Namely. Practically? No.

 

[pothead]

https://www.facebook.com/

This happened yesterday,
Because the old man is a Hindu and his attackers are muslims, no one even mentions this.

 

[ranawat]

https://www.facebook.com/

This happened yesterday,
Because the old man is a Hindu and his attackers are muslims, no one even mentions this.

This is failure of system.

 

[pothead]

This is failure of system.

When Hindus are divided and are cowards, why blame the system?
Try to attack and muslim or Christian and see what they do in terms of getting coverage.
Even farting near a church became matter for national debate couple of years back..

That's why I was pleasantly surprised by the Hindu unity in Kerala on Sabrimala.

 

[jamahir]

What is necessary for India to actually become secular is leave religion to the people.

The state and judiciary should just stay out.

Period.

Treat people as people. Indians. Only Indians.

Their faith is their personal.matter.

Cheers, Doc

I agree that religious faith is a personal matter but it needs to be channeled otherwise it becomes a problem.

This is how it was done in Muslim-majority socialist countries and the Russia-influenced Christian countries. Of course, it helped that that Christianity and Islam ideologically the newer forms of socialism.

 

[padamchen]

I agree that religious faith is a personal matter but it needs to be channeled otherwise it becomes a problem.

This is how it was done in Muslim-majority socialist countries and the Russia-influenced Christian countries. Of course, it helped that that Christianity and Islam ideologically the newer forms of socialism.

Russia has an orthodox church that is extremely powerful.

Don't mistake the Russians for the Chinese.

The Muslim socialism you speak about I cannot comment on.

Cheers, Doc

I think you missed the beat there.
There are core religious practices & there are core social practices.

At many times our social practices are linked to our religious practices.
We as Hindu civilization have changed our social practices so many times over centuries.
Even certain religious practices have changed and evolved through consensus.

When we distinguish between the two, the social ones needs to change with times and at times need a prod from law & legislation.
Religious practices ALWAYS must be done with consensus within the religious group.
Neither Law & Legislation have any role to play in these.

As far as I am concerned constitution is a negotiated contract between people & govt to make people's life better, to empower people. When it starts encroaching on people's lives when the contract originally enacted explicitly gives rights under article 25 for religious freedom, then all bets are off.

I was talking specifically about Sabarimala.

I was on a ban at the time so could not participate.

I was speaking to three Hindus. The RSS guy remained silent.

The other two were pro SC.

It just blew my mind.

You guys have broken the encroaching mosque when I was in my 20s.

I am nearing the end of my 40s and you've had two pro Hindu terms at the top.

And there is still no temple.

It makes me question your faith. It's intensity.

It makes me question whether there really is a unified religious construct called Hinduism that is even pan India.

Sabarimala remained and remains a Kerala story. Regardless of some of you painting pictures of pan Indian movement.

That tells me a HUGE amount.

Cheers, Doc

 

[pothead]

Russia has an orthodox church that is extremely powerful.

Don't mistake the Russians for the Chinese.

The Muslim socialism you speak about I cannot comment on.

Cheers, Doc



I was talking specifically about Sabarimala.

I was on a ban at the time so could not participate.

I was speaking to three Hindus. The RSS guy remained silent.

The other two were pro SC.

It just blew my mind.

You guys have broken the encroaching mosque when I was in my 20s.

I am nearing the end of my 40s and you've had two pro Hindu terms at the top.

And there is still no temple.

It makes me question your faith. It's intensity.

It makes me question whether there really is a unified religious construct called Hinduism that is even pan India.

Sabarimala remained and remains a Kerala story. Regardless of some of you painting pictures of pan Indian movement.

That tells me a HUGE amount.

Cheers, Doc

Don't rub it in buddy.
Ram temple is one of the many issues we have.
Yes it is a thorn but it is just a thorn that will happen. Although BJP has not showed enough b@lls to bulldoze it, I keep thinking, if NOT BJP, then WHO?

I don't get the answer for Who, hence I move on to the core issues of Hindus which BJP has responded admirably well.
Have they done everything we wanted them to do? NO
But they have done more than enough to warrant another chance.

Had you told me 5 years back that Congress would be dumping their muslim leaders and Pappu would proclaim himself to be a JaneuDhari Hindu doing temple runs - I would have laughed my bottom off.
THAT is the biggest achievement of BJP. Now every one is aware that Hindus CAN BE vote banks and you can't take us for granted.

THAT single achievement of BJP is enough to convince me where my loyalties should lie.

 

[jamahir]

The Muslim socialism you speak about I cannot comment on.

Do give this thread of mine a read :

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...steryears-and-the-pious-muslims-of-now.417825

 

[padamchen]

Don't rub it in buddy.
Ram temple is one of the many issues we have.
Yes it is a thorn but it is just a thorn that will happen. Although BJP has not showed enough b@lls to bulldoze it, I keep thinking, if NOT BJP, then WHO?

I don't get the answer for Who, hence I move on to the core issues of Hindus which BJP has responded admirably well.
Have they done everything we wanted them to do? NO
But they have done more than enough to warrant another chance.

Had you told me 5 years back that Congress would be dumping their muslim leaders and Pappu would proclaim himself to be a JaneuDhari Hindu doing temple runs - I would have laughed my bottom off.
THAT is the biggest achievement of BJP. Now every one is aware that Hindus CAN BE vote banks and you can't take us for granted.

THAT single achievement of BJP is enough to convince me where my loyalties should lie.

Man it is so fukin CRUSHING for an Aryan to hear of kindred bloodline faith followers numbering over a billion talking of themselves as a votebank.

As I said, as a fundamentalist Zoroastrian in India, I'm now fucked both ways.

THAT to me has been the biggest learning of the past 5 years.

The discussion just ends with an axe through it when you call yourself a votebank.

Instead of the resident faith and inheritors of its heritage.

And keepers of the land.

Bund marwao ...

Cheers, Doc

 

[pothead]

Man it is so fukin CRUSHING for an Aryan to hear of kindred bloodline faith followers numbering over a billion talking of themselves as a votebank.

As I said, as a fundamentalist Zoroastrian in India, I'm now fucked both ways.

THAT to me has been the biggest learning of the past 5 years.

The discussion just ends with an axe through it when you call yourself a votebank.

Instead of the resident faith and inheritors of its heritage.

And keepers of the land.

Bund marwao ...

Cheers, Doc

LOL

I was probably like u few years back.

Then I realized that this is a civilization fight that will take a generation to reclaim back.

There is no perfect party or group that can fight this.
BJP & RSS are best equiped, if anyone finds others which are better, let me know, i will support them.

 

[padamchen]

LOL

I was probably like u few years back.

Then I realized that this is a civilization fight that will take a generation to reclaim back.

There is no perfect party or group that can fight this.
BJP & RSS are best equiped, if anyone finds others which are better, let me know, i will support them.

A word of advice.

Be Hindu.

The rest will follow.

You are right now being everything but.

Cheers, Doc