Is Reverse engineering a Good Option for India?

[sudhir007]

Is Reverse engineering a Good Option for India? IDRW.ORG

Reverse engineering is a Big No-No in Indian Defence Sector, Country’s major weapons producer like DRDO, Hal and other various labs always wanted in house research and development of indigenous weapons .Indian weapons development have seen continuous delays, mainly due to this following factors . Lack of funds, poor Ground facilities, lack of expertise, over ambitious Projects by our scientist which has resulted in almost all Weapons development going over budget, facing delays or project been scrapped . Due to which imported weapons had to be purchased to fill in the gaps left by delays in production of this Indigenous Weapons systems.

Reverse engineering of Military application really started after World War –II, When US and Soviet Union used German V-2 Rocket designs to build up their Missile and Space rockets. Even at the height of World War II Soviet s copied American B-29 strategic bomber which had landed after Bombing Mission over Japan and made perfect copy and named it Tu-4. Cold war only intensified the Reverse engineering in Military Weapons. Soviet Defence Forces was the major Benefiter of Reverse engineering; they perfectly copied Roll Royce Engine for Mig-15 and also Reverse-engineered copy of the AIM-9 Sidewinder, made possible after a Taiwanese AIM-9B hit a Chinese MiG-17 without exploding, later Soviet scientists would describe as a university course in missile development.

Lately China has been Reverse engineering every thing that they have purchased from Russia or Europe. Russian officials have been irritated for years by what they view as China’s illegal reverse engineering of combat systems From Sukhoi-27 to Engines and many subsystems. China still manufactures many of the Soviet Designed Fighter aircrafts and Bombers till date .But China’s illegally Reverse engineering also means that Many European Nations and even Russia refuse to give china latest or advance weapons’ to them .Russia even did not considered China for their Pak-FA 5th generation fighter aircraft project, Sukhoi Su 27/30 MKK which china have in it armed forces and not top notch and come with under powered Radar and no latest Avionics Package.

Even China’s Claims of bettering over Russian Weapons is just more of claims then actually acceptable by other countries which uses Chinese weaponry, even Major Chinese Weapons importer like Pakistan are opting for European Avionics over Chinese For their Joint Project of 4 Gen Fighter like JF-17 and may again likely go for European Weapons again for J-10B fighter aircraft which they have decided to purchase from China. Russia trust in India can be seen by recent negotiations for Russia to export two Akula II SSNs to India. These advanced nuclear submarines never have been available to China. India has been procuring and gaining production licenses from Russia and several Western nations for decades, and it never has copied any systems illegally. Level of confidence in dealing with India is very high among Arms manufactures; this has seen many Advance levels of Technology transfers or Joint development of Futuristic Weapons, developments which various labs in India are engaged in.

 

[grey boy 2]

Is Reverse engineering a Good Option for India ?

Answer= No, not a option at all, because India simply lack the needed

technonogy to reverse engineering.

India never reverse engineering any weapon ?

Answer=Wrong=Proof=The Indian armed forces had been equipped with an unlicensed reverse-engineered copy of the famous Belgian FN FAL rifle since the 1950s
INSAS rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Honor]

Is Reverse engineering a Good Option for India? IDRW.ORG

Reverse engineering is a Big No-No in Indian Defence Sector, Country’s major weapons producer like DRDO, Hal and other various labs always wanted in house research and development of indigenous weapons .Indian weapons development have seen continuous delays, mainly due to this following factors . Lack of funds, poor Ground facilities, lack of expertise, over ambitious Projects by our scientist which has resulted in almost all Weapons development going over budget, facing delays or project been scrapped . Due to which imported weapons had to be purchased to fill in the gaps left by delays in production of this Indigenous Weapons systems.

Reverse engineering of Military application really started after World War –II, When US and Soviet Union used German V-2 Rocket designs to build up their Missile and Space rockets. Even at the height of World War II Soviet s copied American B-29 strategic bomber which had landed after Bombing Mission over Japan and made perfect copy and named it Tu-4. Cold war only intensified the Reverse engineering in Military Weapons. Soviet Defence Forces was the major Benefiter of Reverse engineering; they perfectly copied Roll Royce Engine for Mig-15 and also Reverse-engineered copy of the AIM-9 Sidewinder, made possible after a Taiwanese AIM-9B hit a Chinese MiG-17 without exploding, later Soviet scientists would describe as a university course in missile development.

Lately China has been Reverse engineering every thing that they have purchased from Russia or Europe. Russian officials have been irritated for years by what they view as China’s illegal reverse engineering of combat systems From Sukhoi-27 to Engines and many subsystems. China still manufactures many of the Soviet Designed Fighter aircrafts and Bombers till date .But China’s illegally Reverse engineering also means that Many European Nations and even Russia refuse to give china latest or advance weapons’ to them .Russia even did not considered China for their Pak-FA 5th generation fighter aircraft project, Sukhoi Su 27/30 MKK which china have in it armed forces and not top notch and come with under powered Radar and no latest Avionics Package.

Even China’s Claims of bettering over Russian Weapons is just more of claims then actually acceptable by other countries which uses Chinese weaponry, even Major Chinese Weapons importer like Pakistan are opting for European Avionics over Chinese For their Joint Project of 4 Gen Fighter like JF-17 and may again likely go for European Weapons again for J-10B fighter aircraft which they have decided to purchase from China. Russia trust in India can be seen by recent negotiations for Russia to export two Akula II SSNs to India. These advanced nuclear submarines never have been available to China. India has been procuring and gaining production licenses from Russia and several Western nations for decades, and it never has copied any systems illegally. Level of confidence in dealing with India is very high among Arms manufactures; this has seen many Advance levels of Technology transfers or Joint development of Futuristic Weapons, developments which various labs in India are engaged in.

India is a elephant with no tusks! Russia will be more willing to sell India any weapon and get big $$$$$$

Russia is worry on Chinese capability! I will not sell top weapon to China if i am a Russian

 

[Red Dwarf]

India is a elephant with no tusks! Russia will be more willing to sell India any weapon and get big $$$$$$

Russia is worry on Chinese capability! I will not sell top weapon to China if i am a Russian

Tusk is only one the features of elephant. Female asian elephant has no tusks. Does that mean females are not elephant.

 

[faithfulguy]

Tusk is only one the features of elephant. Female asian elephant has no tusks. Does that mean females are not elephant.

India lack technical know how to reverse engineer and improve upon the design. As a result, other countries are willing to sell technology to India knowning well that India is not capable to improving on it. For the next generation of weapons, India would take money that should be spend on its poor and destitute and buy Tot for these weapons. Thus a never ending cycle of wasting money.

Therefore, India should just buy the product and forget about Tot. Why buy Tot if India is not going to improve upon the technology? big waste of money that can go some whre else.

 

[wangrong]

Is Reverse engineering a Good Option for India ?

Answer= No

because India's manufacturing sector is poor

 

[saurabh]

India never reverse engineering any weapon ?

Answer=Wrong=Proof=The Indian armed forces had been equipped with an unlicensed reverse-engineered copy of the famous Belgian FN FAL rifle since the 1950s
INSAS rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can you provide some other link to that, I cannot find any.

And no, we dont need to reverse engineer anything because we can get tot on most things we want.

 

[beckham]

Reverse engineering isn't Good Option for India.It might help for some temporary gains but for long term .

We could loose our credibility like what happened to China, and all out future developments would be considered as nothing more than mere cheap imitations.

Moreover it would irritate our military suppliers and make them hesitant to offer top of the line systems.(something we currently enjoy over our adversaries).

I think Technology transfers or Joint development are the best options for India !

 

[grey boy 2]

Can you provide some other link to that, I cannot find any.

And no, we dont need to reverse engineer anything because we can get tot on most things we want.

Sure, no problem, here you go;
NationMaster - Encyclopedia: FN FAL

Greece
Adopted the FAL and FALO under license by the Pyrkal factories before using Elliniki Biomihania Oplon-made G3A3s. This move was due to lack of support by the Greek government on Pyrkal. It was in use with the Greek special forces and the 4th Army Corps in the Evros region from 1973 to 1999. From 2000, the FAL was replaced by the M16A2 and M4 series in special forces. At this time, the use of the FAL is reserved to the Greek national guard, Police and Coast Guard. Image File history File links Flag_of_Greece. ... EBO (Standing for Elliniki Biomihania Oplon, or Hellenic Arms Industry) has been the main arms manufacturer of Greece. ...

India
Designated the 1A SLR (Self Loading Rifle), Indian-made FALs were roughly based on the British L1A1, but the measurements match neither the FN nor the British made weapons. It was the mainstay rifle of the Indian Army for almost 45 years, and first saw combat use during the 1965 war with Pakistan. The variant manufactured in India is restricted to semi-automatic fire. The INSAS is part of a family of rifles, carbines and light machine guns - partially derived from the SLR, but in 5.56 mm - that has replaced the SLR in the military. Considerable number of SLRs continued to be used by paramilitary, constabulary and police forces of India. Indian 1A SLRs have been provided to Nepal. Image File history File links Flag_of_India. ... The M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, one of the most popular modern 5. ...

The reason i post about Greece is to show you it will stated under

licence production, but not on the India's one.

You can also check out the rest of the countries under licence

production for FN FAL rifle.

 

[vsdoc]

^^^ I agree.

"Reverse engineering" something without permission from the innovator, while it is still within its intellectual property protection period, is commonly called copying ..... or piracy ..... or counterfreiting ..... or stealing ..... or industrial espionage.

It has wide ranging repercussions for the guilty country in the global market.

Much better to grow organically but ethically ..... than be known as a nation of ripoffs and sniggered at behind ones back.

Over the long run, India will see a lot more tech transfer from the West for this very reason ..... and contract manufacturing ..... and licensed joint ventures/partnerships.

Yes, ethical/legal reverse engineering has an important role to play in our country's development in industries like the Pharma/Biotech sector ..... when really expensive Western patented drugs go off patent ..... and Indian companies can then develop off-patent generics/biosimilars at a fraction of the cost ..... not just for India ..... but like the company I am part of ..... for more than 160 countries around the world.

And THAT is something one can be truly and righteously PROUD of!

Cheers, Doc

 

[xinhui]

This might not be directly related to the question of "Reverse Engineering" but arms sales is considered to be an important component of international relations. India's diplomatic push "Look East" policy could be enhanced if India has significant arms to sell. AAA to Burma and choppers to South American and possible T-72 to Nepal does not seems to have much of an impact on the situation.

There is a reason that UN Security Council's five permanent members is also the five major arms exporters of the world, (generally speaking as the rankings changes from year to year)

 

[duhastmish]

its crazy how people cry over- chinese rverse engineering.

i really dont see any harm in it. its not a childs play.

china have good infrastructure and maufecturing sector. India is always playing ethical mask game.

they cant do it because of their ethics, oh get a life buggers. India would love to reverse engineer a f-18 . f-35 . they would get only one aircraft of each - f-35, f-16, su-30, su-47, fa-18, eurofighter , rafaele etc. amd make a big fleet.

there is surely soem problem why india couldnt reverse engineer much of anythign while they can get hand on most of world's technology.

reverse engineering is good option if india could do it sucessfully.

ofcourse - you have to keep your own research and development running- reverse engineering doesnt mean you close your own doors and copy paste-

its not all that ctrl+ c --ctrl + v

 

[desimorty]

The reason India has access to these technologies in the first place is because it has integrity. You break that trust and it is unlikily that western nations would be willing to share their secrets. Yes, india is capable of immitating and copying, but why copy when you can recieve ToT and liecsense production? Do you realize how much china spends on trying to copy something that can be easily bought under liecence?
India currently builds many things inhouse under liecense. But why does DRDO try to reinvent the wheel beyond recognition? Because they don't want to be seen as a leech. If that was to happen the Army and the GOI would question they;re very existance as a DESIGN RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT ORGINIZATION. Other wise they'll have to be renamed COPY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT ORIGIZATION.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Ofcourse its good under proper evaluation and forecasts of its implicatiions.

Reverse Engg. Makes u self reliant, no matter what the results. If one seriusly considers the benefits of a indigenous product. Like economy, employment etc. Its obvious that LCA AND MCA ARE FAR BETTER OPTIONS THAN WHAT OTHERS HAVE 2 OFFER.

As i said, if we take calculated reverse engineering, its good for us.
Reverse Engineering is Not New for India, The INS ARIHANT CAN B CONSIDERED AS A COPY OF CHARLIE 2, The Hull is certainly largely Influenced.

Moreover in 1985, as told by Dr. Kalam in "Wings of Fire" , The Indian scientists actually wanted to Reverse Engineer SA2 SAM, and develop it as a Ground-to-Ground Missile, However later with the Arrival of the Much Larger IGMDP, This was abandoned. In Both Cases USSR was in agreement.

Reverse Engineering is a Highly Sophisticated job as you need to develop R&D for every Nut and Bold involved in the end product.
So IMO, India should actually Go For Limited Reverse Engineering , especially for those products which benefit its Current and Future Researches in Military.

Of course India do lag compared to China , but Some Real complex projects are being completed in every sector .. From UAVs to Fighter Jets ... Nuclear Subs .. Carriers .. Nothing really slips the list.
So we do have some basic Infrastructure for every Military Product.

In short, If its possible why not Reverse Engineer RD-33 ( with Russian Nod ) if it helps LCA ?

Also, in other cases where India cannot go for a real Reverse Engineering India Can intensify its current path of co-production.
Joint Ventures offer somewhat good options though can never really match "on your own" approach.

 

[Merilion]

Is Reverse engineering a Good Option for India?

no, it's not a good option. it's not even an option for india as of now due to its poor industrial knowledge base.
some indian members like to bashing China as a copycat but they conveniently forget india is not even qualified to be a copycat in tech field. For their failed or much delayed military projects some indians like taking excuses that india doesn't do reverse engineering. what a joke! If a military project is matter of national interest/concern of national security, what can prevent india scientists from taking a look at a good proven sample to refresh their out of ideas brains?? dont tell me indians are stupid enough always want to reinvent wheel.