Is Reverse engineering a Good Option for India?

[xinhui]

Just point out the mis-conception out there that is all.

JV = joint venture.

India doesnt do copy paste.....

the google ad from Indian companies I posted in this thread disagree with with that notion.

 

[xinhui]

.India beleives in R&D so that there is real advancement of scientific community

Here is a good overview.
Science|Business India’s patent progress

22 October 2009

Intellectual property | Patents | Policy | India
India’s patent progress

Science|Business reporting


The reform of India's patent system has given foreign companies the confidence that they can protect their intellectual property rights, but the economic boom is yet to translate through to a surge in home grown innovation, according to the latest research from the market analyst Evalueserve.

India has witnessed rapid changes in its patenting landscape as a result of growing economic activity and patent reforms. The number of patent applications filed with the Indian Patent Office (IPO) has increased threefold over the past six years.

This has been primarily due to multinational companies setting up and expanding their markets in India, says Balwant Rawat, Group Manager with the Intellectual Property Division of Evalueserve, and author of the report, “Patent Landscape in India 2009.”

One of the main things to jump out of the study, which covers the four years from January 2005 to December 2008, is the reduced growth in patent filings in 2008 because of the economic downturn. More than 80 per cent of the applications filed with the IPO are from foreign applicants, and growth slowed considerably, to 5 per cent as against the 20 per cent increase seen in the three previous years.

The study also shows that the ability of the Indian system to protect intellectual property rights is being stress-tested, with an increase in the number of applicants approaching the courts to enforce their patents or challenging the validity of patents, or even challenging the decisions of the IPO. In 2008 a number of patent-related cases were pending in various Indian courts, with more than 175 cases pending in the Delhi High Court.

While there has been an increase in the filing of patents overall, Indian companies have not kept pace with their foreign counterparts. In 2007–2008, domestic applicants filed 6,296 applications with the IPO, which constitutes about 18 per cent of the total applications.

This was lower than the percentage share in 2006–2007 at 19 per cent, 2005–2006 at 20 per cent, and 2004–2005, when the share of domestic patents was 23 per cent.

Reflecting its increasing stature on the world stage, the domestic pharma sector is performing significantly better than the other industries, with six domestic companies in the list of top 100 filers during 2005–2008. Among these six companies, Ranbaxy Laboratories emerged as the top filer (rank 31), followed by Dr. Reddy’s Laboratories (rank 45) and Cadila Healthcare (rank 66).

The domestic automobile sector is also looking up. Rawat says this is partly the result of increased awareness on the back of a recent patent lawsuit between TVS Motors and Bajaj Aut, but it is also due to the development of the $1,000 Nano car by Tata Motors. Tata Motors’ published applications and patenting intensity significantly increased in 2008.

Meanwhile, there was little change in the domestic information technology sector, with the leading company Infosys publishing 25 applications in 2008 as against 19 in 2007.

Of foreign companies, Qualcomm was the top patent filer for 2007 and 2008, publishing 2,068 published applications at the IPO. General Motors, General Electric, Tata Group, LG Electronics, Research in Motion, 3M and Sony Ericsson made gains in their 2008 rankings, while Philips, Bayer, Microsoft and AstraZeneca slipped marginally.

However, approximately 80 per cent of patents filed in 2007–2008 took priority from other countries, indicating that most of the innovations are happening outside India.

One of the reasons for low patenting activity among domestic IT companies could be that many such firms are predominantly serving markets outside India, says Rawat. “Their clients usually own the intellectual property they produce.”

Another reason could be a problem that is familiar in Europe also - the lack of clarity on the patentability of software inventions.

For whatever reason, apart from Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services, the top eight IT and IT-based services firms in India, which have substantial Indian ownership and are all listed on the Indian public bourses, have filed few patents. Rawat says this is not commensurate with their respective revenues and revenue growth rates, and suggests these Indian firms may lack a cohesive strategy to protect their intellectual property.

On the administrative side, the IPO has modernised its patent offices and upgraded its infrastructure. The first phase of modernisation worth Rs 1.53 billion (€22.1 million) has been completed and the second phase with a budget of Rs 3 billion (€43.3 million) has been approved by the government. In July 2007, the IPO started an online facility for filing patent applications. The process of digitisation of patent records and development of the Indian Patent Database is underway.

The World International Property Organisation recently awarded the status of International Searching Authority and International Preliminary Examining Authority to the IPO. The Indian government has also established National Institute for Intellectual Property Management for conducting training/awareness programmes on Intellectual Property Rights.

 

[xinhui]

MEDICINE MERCHANTS / Pirated Pills
Selling Cheap 'Generic' Drugs, India's
Copycats Irk Industry

http://rfrost.people.si.umich.edu/courses/SI110/readings/IntellecProp/Indian_Pharm_[non-]patents.pdf

 

[xinhui]

They [India]achieve these low production cost due to their expertise in reverse engineering new manufacturing processe

Drug Manufacturers in India | India Drug Manufacturers

 

[ironman]

^^^ zinhui, are you the mod of WAB?

By the way you are slipping from the subject. Its about defense manufacturing..

All the JV of China you have posted, about civilian or commercial purpose products not for military use.

 

[xinhui]

I do realize that. While I make it clear that some Chinese companies validated IP laws and the Chinese government has a rather poor record in copyrights protections. At the same time, reverse engineering is not a Chinese only thing.


The Z-15 is a military project, so is the Sino-Turkey B-611/WS-2 missile, there nothing civilian about it. Other items I cited is considered dual purpose and that is why I cited them.

 

[xinhui]

^^^ zinhui, are you the mod of WAB?

By the way you are slipping from the subject. Its about defense manufacturing..
.

Yes.
It is new year and I have some time off. This place is fun, so many emotional folks making too many over-generalizations. As you know, I worked for one of the world's largest defense contractors, I did this for a living.

 

[ironman]

^^^ nice to see you here friend..

 

[ironman]

I do realize that. While I make it clear that some Chinese companies validated IP laws and the Chinese government has a rather poor record in copyrights protections. At the same time, reverse engineering is not a Chinese only thing.


The Z-15 is a military project, so is the Sino-Turkey B-611/WS-2 missile, there nothing civilian about it. Other items I cited is considered dual purpose and that is why I cited them.

Yes, you are right. But unlike China India has the option to buy from the Western world. If India goes for reverse eng, that will be a black mark and subsequently restricted from the buying option.

Z-15 is transport helicopter and not to be armed. China can do whatever in the limits of MTCR pledge with interested nations.

 

[faithfulguy]

Then please explain the difference between an IRBM and an ICBM.

Look it up yourself. This is a common knowledge.

 

[faithfulguy]

What I see the difference between the approach between China and India is that China is strive to be indigenous while India seek to import the weapon. The problem for China is that it would take a long time. However, its likely that Chinese defence technology will supass that of Russia and then Western Europe in 20+ years. India will not be able to buy weapons from these countries to have any technical advantage over China so its only option will be the US. I would urge India to join the US camp if it wants to counter China. Otherwise, fail at your own peril. Without US protection and assistance, India would not be able to provide minimal deterrance against China in 20 years.

 

[Red Dwarf]

Look it up yourself. This is a common knowledge.

I'm not a military person. I'm dealing in a field which is no way connected to military. When I said about ICBM, you said i don't know anything about missiles. For you to said so you have to be an expert in those areas. So it is your responsibility to give answer to a question that I asked.

 

[faithfulguy]

I'm not a military person. I'm dealing in a field which is no way connected to military. When I said about ICBM, you said i don't know anything about missiles. For you to said so you have to be an expert in those areas. So it is your responsibility to give answer to a question that I asked.

Look, I'm not an expert in that area and never claimed to be one. But there is such thing as common sense and general knowledge. I've been following US mid course ABM capbilities against ICBM and there are just too many problem for this technology to work. Just read up on US afforts and you will realize that India is wasting its time if its trying the same thing.

 

[gogbot]

Look, I'm not an expert in that area and never claimed to be one. But there is such thing as common sense and general knowledge. I've been following US mid course ABM capbilities against ICBM and there are just too many problem for this technology to work. Just read up on US afforts and you will realize that India is wasting its time if its trying the same thing.

IS that why the US is pouring in Billions into the project. as well developing Circuit frying lasers. To achieve a defense shield.

ABM project is long term. and the anti missiles are just Phase 1

Development

Phase 1

Development of ABM System began in 1999. Around 40 public and private Companies were involved in the development of ABM System. They include Bharat Electronics Ltd and Bharat Dynamics Ltd, Astra Microwave, ASL, Larsen & Toubro, Vem Technologies Private Limited and KelTech. Development of LRTR (Long Range Tracking Radar) and MFCR (Multi-function Fire Control Radar) was lead by Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (ERDE).

For the AAD Missile System, Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) developed the mission control software. Research Centre, Imarat (RCI) developed navigation, electromechanical actuation systems and Active Radar Seeker. Advanced System Laboratory (ASL) provided the motors, jet vanes and structures for the two missiles. High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) supplied the propellants for the missile.

it is a two tiered system consisting of two interceptor missiles, namely the Prithvi Air Defence (PAD) missile for high altitude interception, and the Advanced Air Defence (AAD) Missile for lower altitude interception. The two-tiered shield will be able to intercept any incoming missile launched 5,000 kilometers away.

Phase 2

* Two new anti-ballistic missiles that can intercept IRBM/ICBMs at greater ranges are being developed. These high speed missiles (AD-1 and AD-2) are being developed to intercept ballistic missiles with the range of 5000 km.The test trials of these two systems is expected to take place in 2011.The new missile will be similar the THAAD missile deployed by the U.S.A. These missiles will have to travel at hypersonic speeds and will require radars with scan capability of over 1500 kilometers to successfully intercept the target.


* India is also planning to develop a laser based weapon system as part of its Ballistic Missile Defence to intercept and destroy missiles soon after they are launched towards the country. DRDO's Air Defence Programme Director V K Saraswat says its ideal to destroy a ballistic missile carrying nuclear or conventional warhead in its boost phase. Saraswat further added that it will take another 10–15 years for the premier defence research institute to make a laser based weapon system usable on the ground.

 

[Red Dwarf]

Look, I'm not an expert in that area and never claimed to be one. But there is such thing as common sense and general knowledge. I've been following US mid course ABM capbilities against ICBM and there are just too many problem for this technology to work. Just read up on US afforts and you will realize that India is wasting its time if its trying the same thing.

I'm not talking about the technologies used in ABM. What you are saying is that, ABM is only for ICBM. And an ICBM can only be brought down by another ICBM. I questioned only that part.

There is no system in the planet to destroy a missile if its mirved whether it is IRBM or ICBM.