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Is Obama's drone doctrine counter-productive?

fd24

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US President Barack Obama personally approves every single drone strike against suspected terrorists, so he can take full moral responsibility for the deaths these cause.

That is the main thrust of a long, detailed and fascinating piece in the New York Times.

It comes as experts have been telling me that the president is wrong to see drones as a "silver bullet" that solves some critical problems about the morality and efficacy of America's use of military power.

The New York Times paints a picture of a regular, 100-strong video conference meeting that decides the names to be put on a "kill list": the next suspected terrorists to be targeted.

It quotes the president's national security adviser, Tom Donilon: "He is determined that he will make these decisions about how far and wide these operations will go… he's determined to keep the tether pretty short."

White House spokesman Jay Carney says he will not discuss specific details of decision-making.

The article confirms that the care taken by the president is significant and he takes "extraordinary measures" to avoid civilian casualties.

Obama's drone doctrine


In reality, I cannot believe that as many officials spoke as freely as they apparently did without being given the presidential green light.

At a time when Republicans want to paint Mr Obama as a ditherer, unwilling to take firm action, it paints him as tough and strong, willing to take hard decisions and kill America's enemies.

But this goes beyond political spin. It is a doctrine of warfare.

We have known for a while that drones are the president's weapon of choice.

He believes that they kill America's enemies with minimum risk to the innocent and are a "light foot-print" compared to the heavy boot of invasion and occupation. The Obama administration is becoming more and more frank about the use of these unmanned planes.

Some are appalled.

There are plenty of blogs which say that drone attacks are murder, plain and simple. Others argue that they are illegal under international law.

But some say they simply do not have the desired result. Gregory Johnsen of Princeton University is an expert on Yemen and he told me that the rain of drone attacks has strengthened the hand of terrorists there.

"Look at Yemen on Christmas Day 2009, the day the so-called underwear bomber attempted to bring down a flight over Detroit.

"On that day al-Qaeda numbered about 200 to 300 individuals and they controlled no territory. Now today, two-and-a-half years later, despite all the drone strikes al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has tripled in size, it's now around 1,000 members and it controls significant territory.

"The more the US bombs, the more they grow."

No 'silver bullet'


He says drones strikes have killed women and children and al-Qaeda are adept at using this to recruit people for revenge.

Someone else who questions the light foot-print theory is David Rhode. He speaks form very personal experience. While a New York Times reporter, he was held hostage in the tribal areas of Pakistan by the Taliban. He recalled to me one attack.

"There was one drone strike close to the house where we were being held. It was so close that shrapnel and mud showered down into the courtyard.

"Just the force and size of the explosion amazed me. It comes with no warning and tremendous force."

He says that is not a light foot-print.

"They are a constant presence, you hear them circling over head the whole time.

"It's terrifying for everyone on the ground because they can hear it, like a small plane. What is so unsettling is you have no idea when this missile is going to come and kill you. There's a sense that your sovereignty is being violated.

"… It's a serious military action. It is not this light precise pin prick that many Americans believe."

Gregory Johnson says politicians can become mesmerised by this one tactic.

"The problem with drones is there is almost a seduction of simple solutions going on here. It is like a 'silver bullet', a magic missile solution to al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and I think that's very dangerous.

"What needs to happen is that the US has to do the very hard policy of diplomacy, or intelligence on the ground. The United States has a huge tool box at its disposal in Yemen and it is only using one of these tools."

I suspect the sci-fi allure of bringing retribution from the skies, with no risk to any American lives, will out-weigh such considerations.

The president may think very carefully before he approves individual killings, but in the end, as a strategy, drone attacks have too many attractions compared to doing nothing or sending in the troops.

BBC News - Is Obama's drone doctrine counter-productive?

I suggest reading some of the comments - and viewing the overwhelming condemnation of these drone attacks....

 
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Hmm. Keeps us safe and has kept us safe is an undenial fact. That he chooses themselves bore from the fact his very first strike under his administration had a high casualty count and he did not like that.

Now there is some truth that these attacks helps recruitment but it is a balance that needs to be struck. 911 recruitment was not hurt because the US had no boots on the ground or drones in the sky I.e. jihadist will still keep attacking us regardless of drone or nodrone.

You'd wish your govt kept you safe like the Americans when you leave the propaganda of anti American hysteria behind...

Now for some candid thoughts and talk: comments on the Internet against drone strikes means jack , honestly. Stop funding, supporting terrorist like haquini network . Stop being so quiet about the radicals among y'all and we wil draw down. We don't care about your umma and whatever agenda you have for your women... Just don't come trying to kill our civilians or citizens. Finally when you insist to come live among us, respect out laws and keep your darn religious beliefs within the 4 walls of your house. That goes of all you wanna turn us into a sharia law country aspirational radicals. I mean really what's with that crap.
 
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As long as Pakistan is unable/unwilling to do the right thing and eliminate global terrorism in its territory, the US has no other choice but to operate against terror targets inside Pakistan.
 
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As long as Pakistan is unable/unwilling to do the right thing and eliminate global terrorism in its territory, the US has no other choice but to operate against terror targets inside Pakistan.

only a rootless race like jews or anglo-americans can excite and draw a rootless militant ideology and terrorism upon itself. terrorism, by virtue of its very globality and rootlessness, has nothing to do with pakistan and everything to do with the nature of jewish existence and anglo-american power.
 
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As long as Pakistan is unable/unwilling to do the right thing and eliminate global terrorism in its territory, the US has no other choice but to operate against terror targets inside Pakistan.

Explain to me how is it justice or even beneficial to kill random people on the streets of Pakistani tribal areas for any counter-terrorism motives?

As a human being, tell me how does x number of 20 year olds getting killed in NWA is going to help you?
 
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only a rootless race like jews or anglo-americans can excite and draw a rootless militant ideology and terrorism upon itself. terrorism, by virtue of its very globality and rootlessness, has nothing to do with pakistan and everything to do with the nature of jewish existence and anglo-american power.

There are global terror infrastructures in Pakistan (camps, training facilities, fund organisations, recruitment means, arms etc.) which are responsible for most of terror attacks - 9/11, 26/11, 12/2001, the attack on the underground in London and other failed attempts to blow up urban centre in New York and so forth.

How exactly the West draw this terrorism on itself? Please explain how innocent civilians are responsible for the terrorism which murdered them.

Explain to me how is it justice or even beneficial to kill random people on the streets of Pakistani tribal areas for any counter-terrorism motives?

As a human being, tell me how does x number of 20 year olds getting killed in NWA is going to help you?

The drone strikes are not against civilians but against terrorists who plan more attacks against NATO forces in Afghanistan, against Afghan people and against targets around the world.
 
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Explain to me how is it justice or even beneficial to kill random people on the streets of Pakistani tribal areas for any counter-terrorism motives?

As a human being, tell me how does x number of 20 year olds getting killed in NWA is going to help you?

My apologies for replying to a question that you asked another member.

I think the question is not about how the drone attacks are going to help A or B in this forum but how they aid the ISAF in Afghanistan.AFAIK the CIA and other allied agencies have a mechanism in place to detect terrorist 'signatures'.The fact that there is always collateral damage associated is a known fact but there is no denying that many hard-core terrorists are also killed in the process.People who would have made the job of ISAF very difficult if they were let to live.
 
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There are global terror infrastructures in Pakistan (camps, training facilities, fund organisations, recruitment means, arms etc.) which are responsible for most of terror attacks - 9/11, 26/11, 12/2001, the attack on the underground in London and other failed attempts to blow up urban centre in New York and so forth.
Almost everything - has been proven false.

1. 9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan
2. 26/11 - had nothing to do with NWA where drone bombings is going on and we are trying in federal courts the people who are alleged to be responsible
3. 12/2001 has never been proven to be linked to Pakistan, in fact most probably it was a drama by India. Which is why the US didn't believe India and India backed off and went home.

It's only NWA where we have little control over the local people there but that isn't going to change till the US doesn't stop bombing them and further radicalize them. We are not arguing to support any terrorists, we have a plan a better one, a common sense one and humanity demands that you desist from revenge killing the people of NWA to satisfy your frustrations in the war.

How exactly the West draw this terrorism on itself? Please explain how innocent civilians are responsible for the terrorism which murdered them.
I am with the western civilians, it is the foreign policies that I oppose. They have no clue and are bringing more terrorism upon their civilians and to some degree their soldiers as well.

If Obama kills your children tomorrow, wouldn't you be against his country? That is what's happening in NWA when Obama targets their children.
 
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Although I do somewhat admire the fact that he personally gives the green light on these attacks, I do believe we are technically breaking international law. We are firing missiles into Pakistan without its approval. Some say that the Pakistan govt is actually secretly giving approval for these strikes, essentially, if they made public that they were allowing these highly unpopular strikes to take place, Pakistan would face a great amount of scrutiny from the public. So instead of taking heat from it they make it look like big bad America is bullying their way around. Why else would they watch idled by while the public chants death to America? Were making Pakistan safer too..
 
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The drone strikes are not against civilians but against terrorists who plan more attacks against NATO forces in Afghanistan, against Afghan people and against targets around the world.

Read the article.

1. Obama's policy is that do not rely on intelligence that there is a terrorist somewhere, just keep shooting at people who you think are terrorists. 3 guys are doing jumping jacks - shoot him. Three cars are travelling together, blow them up.

2. The people who die, eventually their ages come out. If they are adult and male just call them terrorists.

So I ask you again, are you sure the drone strikes are not killing civilians? It may be that all of them are male and adults and all of them were civilians.

Although I do somewhat admire the fact that he personally gives the green light on these attacks, I do believe we are technically breaking international law. We are firing missiles into Pakistan without its approval. Some say that the Pakistan govt is actually secretly giving approval for these strikes, essentially, if they made public that they were allowing these highly unpopular strikes to take place, Pakistan would face a great amount of scrutiny from the public. So instead of taking heat from it they make it look like big bad America is bullying their way around. Why else would they watch idled by while the public chants death to America? Were making Pakistan safer too..

Read, read, read the articles!

Its been clearly written that none of the people killed may have been terrorists, Obama just decided to call one category of civilians killed as terrorists.

This information has come out of interviewing three dozen white house aides.
 
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Read the article.

1. Obama's policy is that do not rely on intelligence that there is a terrorist somewhere, just keep shooting at people who you think are terrorists. 3 guys are doing jumping jacks - shoot him. Three cars are travelling together, blow them up.

2. The people who die, eventually their ages come out. If they are adult and male just call them terrorists.

So I ask you again, are you sure the drone strikes are not killing civilians? It may be that all of them are male and adults and all of them were civilians.



Read, read, read the articles!

Its been clearly written that none of the people killed may have been terrorists, Obama just decided to call one category of civilians killed as terrorists.

This information has come out of interviewing three dozen white house aides.

All this would have been a moot point is Pakistan did its job of ensuring that the terrorists on its soil are not allowed to attack other countries..Everything else is just buck passing and obfuscation of the real issue..
 
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My apologies for replying to a question that you asked another member.

I think the question is not about how the drone attacks are going to help A or B in this forum but how they aid the ISAF in Afghanistan.AFAIK the CIA and other allied agencies have a mechanism in place to detect terrorist 'signatures'.The fact that there is always collateral damage associated is a known fact but there is no denying that many hard-core terrorists are also killed in the process.People who would have made the job of ISAF very difficult if they were let to live.

Every day the Taliban grows stronger in Afghanistan carrying out more and more brazen attack.

That's what I'm telling you there are no mechanisms in place to 'detect' a terrorist. There is no terrorist-o-meter out there. They are firing bombs onto people for doing early morning exercises in a group or for driving bumper to bumper, if you have a wedding ceremony your wedding may be bombed.

This is according to three dozen current and former white house aides.

All this would have been a moot point is Pakistan did its job of ensuring that the terrorists on its soil are not allowed to attack other countries..Everything else is just buck passing and obfuscation of the real issue..

Then, I ask you the same question again:

So Pakistan is unable to do a very difficult task - a task the US has not done so far either - then that means that you can start bombing random civilians?
 
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Almost everything - has been proven false.

1. 9/11 had nothing to do with Pakistan
2. 26/11 - had nothing to do with NWA where drone bombings is going on and we are trying in federal courts the people who are alleged to be responsible
3. 12/2001 has never been proven to be linked to Pakistan, in fact most probably it was a drama by India. Which is why the US didn't believe India and India backed off and went home.

It's only NWA where we have little control over the local people there but that isn't going to change till the US doesn't stop bombing them and further radicalize them. We are not arguing to support any terrorists, we have a plan a better one, a common sense one and humanity demands that you desist from revenge killing the people of NWA to satisfy your frustrations in the war.


I am with the western civilians, it is the foreign policies that I oppose. They have no clue and are bringing more terrorism upon their civilians and to some degree their soldiers as well.

If Obama kills your children tomorrow, wouldn't you be against his country? That is what's happening in NWA when Obama targets their children.

The US is making its best in a very difficult situation. All the terror attacks I mentioned used Pakistan territory to transfer the terrorists, the funds and the arms to execute them, so Pakistan is indeed the problem. Apart from NWA Pakistan has apparently a problem to control Punjab where other terror organisations are located (such as LET and HUM) and operate freely from well known centres. In Quetta the capital of Baluchistan the commend of the Taliban is located and no one does anything - apparently Pakistan's control is limited to several districts of Islamabad...

And of course in NWA Pakistan Army refuse again and again to take the necessary actions and clear NW from all terrorists operating from its territory against NATO in Afghanistan. The Army also fail to control this tribal areas is supposedly control - no weapon is being collected no training facilities are demolished, and no recruitment techniques are being banned.

Hence, the US has no choice but to strike in Pakistan and do the job Pakistan is unable/unwilling to do.

The radicalisation of the People of Pakistan and NWA has nothing to do with the US, but with your own military and government authorities which sell them all kind of foolish stories why their country is in its bad situation, and that that situation is always the fault of external forces (mainly the US) and never Pakistan itself.
 
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Then, I ask you the same question again:

So Pakistan is unable to do a very difficult task - a task the US has not done so far either - then that means that you can start bombing random civilians?

You are wrong.. I do not believe terrorists from US soil routinely make it to other countries and blow themselves up.. Terrorists from Pakistan do that.. And Pakistan is responsible for their action since that action originates from its soil. You can not demand sovereignty when people from your soil do not respect the same sovereignty of other countries.. You either stop your citizens from indulging in terrorist activities in other countries or pay the price.. These civilian deaths (however sad) are a part of that price which is the result of Paksitan govt's policies..
 
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Read the article.

1. Obama's policy is that do not rely on intelligence that there is a terrorist somewhere, just keep shooting at people who you think are terrorists. 3 guys are doing jumping jacks - shoot him. Three cars are travelling together, blow them up.

2. The people who die, eventually their ages come out. If they are adult and male just call them terrorists.

So I ask you again, are you sure the drone strikes are not killing civilians? It may be that all of them are male and adults and all of them were civilians.

That is not what the article say or give any evidence for. Of course every drone attack is supported with intelligence and is aimed at terror activists, not civilians. The President himself authorising this operation in order to minimise as much as possible the chances of a mistake and innocent casualties.
 
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