Is Obama's drone doctrine counter-productive?

[fd24]

Do you think I do not know?

No you obviously don't know - you haven't a clue.

You fail to understand a fundamental point which I will repeat for the last time in order to give you the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of whether you feel people of other nations are making the correct choices or not, it is not their choice to make. You may feel the murderous contras (U.S imposed) provided a better form of government, that's not your choice to make. Nor the U.S'

The total lack of moral (and judicial) thought behind these attacks is staggering.

How indeed would have the USA responded if back in the 1980s when they used to facilitate the IRA terrorists holding public gatherings and fund raising funds for their atrocities in Ireland in New York and Chicago – if the British had carried out a few drone attacks to remove these people?
Would the loss of innocent lives be judged as “acceptable”? I think not.

 

[vsdoc]

Is it possible for the Pakistani Army to shoot down the drones?

What would be the likely repurcussions?

We are missing the forest for the trees.

 

[illusion8]

Maybe if the US stops 200 people roaming in Afghanistan and bomb those sc*m to bits, that would be alot better than doing these strikes in Pakistan.

The common excuse is that they originate from Pakistan. Fair enough. But what about the fact that they stroll through 200 km into Kabul and launch an attack there. Isn't that somebody's responsibility too? To secure their side of the border? Or is that Pakistans fault as well?

Kasab travelled to Mumbai to carry out the attack, so is it India's fault?

 

[vsdoc]

No you obviously don't know - you haven't a clue.

You fail to understand a fundamental point which I will repeat for the last time in order to give you the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of whether you feel people of other nations are making the correct choices or not, it is not their choice to make. You may feel the murderous contras (U.S imposed) provided a better form of government, that's not your choice to make. Nor the U.S'

The total lack of moral (and judicial) thought behind these attacks is staggering.

How indeed would have the USA responded if back in the 1980s when they used to facilitate the IRA terrorists holding public gatherings and fund raising funds for their atrocities in Ireland in New York and Chicago – if the British had carried out a few drone attacks to remove these people?
Would the loss of innocent lives be judged as “acceptable”? I think not.

Personally, if I was a Pakistani, I would be mad as hell against my leadership and my armed forces for allowing such to happen in the first place.

Why is it evident to all except you guys that your anger is totally misdirected?

 

[Jango]

Kasab travelled to Mumbai to carry out the attack, so is it India's fault?

Kasab's case was different.

He went through water in a DInghy to a coastal city. So you get some leeway. But your response was despicable as well.

The US case is different. They can spot 2 people in a Mosque and brand them terrorists, but when 300 people come across to attack a pakistani post, they are blind

Personally, if I was a Pakistani, I would be mad as hell against my leadership and my armed forces for allowing such to happen in the first place.

Why is it evident to all except you guys that your anger is totally misdirected?

And you don't think we are?

 

[vsdoc]

Has it not struck a single Pakstani here (or elsewhere in your friend and family circles) - especially the older ones - that this is exactly how we were colonised?

A little bit at a time.

And you don't think we are?

Not on the evidence of this thread and countless others here I have briefly skimmed through.

You are more interested in debating the morals and ethics of it.

Playing the victims.

Going to the UN to protest.

Writing op eds.

Wringing your hands online.

Attending rock show jalsas.

Blaming the Americans.

Always the Americans.

 

[illusion8]

No you obviously don't know - you haven't a clue.

You fail to understand a fundamental point which I will repeat for the last time in order to give you the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of whether you feel people of other nations are making the correct choices or not, it is not their choice to make. You may feel the murderous contras (U.S imposed) provided a better form of government, that's not your choice to make. Nor the U.S'

The total lack of moral (and judicial) thought behind these attacks is staggering.

How indeed would have the USA responded if back in the 1980s when they used to facilitate the IRA terrorists holding public gatherings and fund raising funds for their atrocities in Ireland in New York and Chicago – if the British had carried out a few drone attacks to remove these people?
Would the loss of innocent lives be judged as “acceptable”? I think not.

NATO has asked Pakistan number of times to carry out operations in the Northern areas against the Taliban and Haqqani's, For some reason they feel that Pakistan is not complying. According to Obama's stated policies "he is determined to go after the Taliban anywhere they are. If the host country does not do the clean up, the US takes it upon itself and will do it". Now Pakistan's options here are limited to three - either they do the operations themselves or they let US do it or third is they oppose it and stop the US from doing it.

 

[fd24]

Personally, if I was a Pakistani, I would be mad as hell against my leadership and my armed forces for allowing such to happen in the first place.

Why is it evident to all except you guys that your anger is totally misdirected?

I do have a lot of anger at our leadership vsdoc - if they had the sincerity our people deserve this situation would never have arisen. Lining their personal pockets at the expense of allowing the US to take the pi*s.

I read an interesting comment to note earlier on worth noting:

When one 'power' stamps its view of the world on the rest of humanity, expect some dissent.

People take up arms for many reasons.

Dropping bombs on another state's domain, from the safety of a great distance, de-humanises murder.

It makes the US no different to its perceived enemies and encourages new ones all the time!

 

[vsdoc]

The Haqqanis are not the issue anymore.

Nor is Afghanistan.

Pakistan is batting time.

Pakistanis are angry.

But they are also cynically frustrated.

Its a Hobson's choice. Actually it isn't even close.

 

[illusion8]

Kasab's case was different.

He went through water in a DInghy to a coastal city. So you get some leeway. But your response was despicable as well.

The US case is different. They can spot 2 people in a Mosque and brand them terrorists, but when 300 people come across to attack a pakistani post, they are blind



And you don't think we are?

I don't see much difference between the cases, the only difference is in the response given to it by the victim countries - India kept insisting that Pakistan take action, and the US went after the terrorists themselves.

I totally disagree on the killing of civilians, on the bakery bombing I just wondered if the bakery was bombed was the baker/ shopkeeper also killed - surely he or she wasn't a terrorist.

 

[vsdoc]

I do have a lot of anger at our leadership vsdoc - if they had the sincerity our people deserve this situation would never have arisen. Lining their personal pockets at the expense of allowing the US to take the pi*s.

I read an interesting comment to note earlier on worth noting:

When one 'power' stamps its view of the world on the rest of humanity, expect some dissent.

People take up arms for many reasons.

Dropping bombs on another state's domain, from the safety of a great distance, de-humanises murder.

It makes the US no different to its perceived enemies and encourages new ones all the time!

Superkaif, get over the US bro. Or its morals. They will do what they feel needs to be done.

Why are YOU not doing the same?

 

[Ignited Mind]

Has it not struck a single Pakstani here (or elsewhere in your friend and family circles) - especially the older ones - that this is exactly how we were colonised?

A little bit at a time.

No it doesn't occur to them.

Why?

Because actually their founding fathers never really fought the British for freedom. They fought the Congress for seperation.

They merely piggybacked the success of the Congress' and general Indian people's struggle against the British and managed to get a country for themselves. Like what we say in Hindi, "Bahti Ganga mein haath dhona."

In fact all the leaders of Indian freedom movement went to jail. All, except one.

Which one did NEVER go to jail?

Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Why did Jinnah never have to go to jail? Why was he never arrested?

Well obviously, only the dissenters and protesters go to jail. Those to cowtowed to the British, never had to go to jail.

...and all these are facts. There's nothing that I've made up here.

So, the point is, when you didn't have to struggle for something which you got as a gift for free, you'll obviously not value it.

They got their freedom without a struggle. Hence, they don't really feel for it.

It's basic human nature. We don't value things we don't have to make an effort for.

 

[OrionHunter]

Will Obama take full responsibility for this.....


Pakistani children killed in a drone strike at Darpa Khel, North Waziristan.

Will Obama stand up and explain why innocent children are being killed? This is a crime against humanity! Period!

 

[vsdoc]

No it doesn't occur to them.

Why?

Because actually their founding fathers never really fought the British for freedom. They fought the Congress for seperation.

They merely piggybacked the success of the Congress' and general Indian people's struggle against the British and managed to get a country for themselves. Like what we say in Hindi, "Bahti Ganga mein haath dhona."

In fact all the leaders of Indian freedom movement went to jail. All, except one.

Which one did NEVER go to jail?

Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Why did Jinnah never have to go to jail? Why was he never arrested?

Well obviously, only the dissenters and protesters go to jail. Those to cowtowed to the British, never had to go to jail.

...and all these are facts. There's nothing that I've made up here.

So, the point is, when you didn't have to struggle for something which you got as a gift for free, you'll obviously not value it.

They got their freedom without a struggle. Hence, they don't really feel for it.

It's basic human nature. We don't value things we don't have to make an effort for.

Civilizational drift?

I'd like to hear from the Pakistani's here.

Events over the past decade are screaming "COLONISATION" to me.

Or maybe I'm just suffering from a severe case of late-generational post-colonial syndrome ....

 

[Ignited Mind]

Civilizational drift?

I'd like to hear from the Pakistani's here.

Events over the past decade are screaming "COLONISATION" to me.

Or maybe I'm just suffering from a severe case of late-generational post-colonial syndrome ....

What do you expedct them to say? They can only give you emotional rebuttals, call me a troll yada yada...

the one thing they can't do, however, is dispute the facts.

Jinnah never went to jail.

You can guess why.