Is Indian Aggresive Posturing Prelude to a Fourth War with Pakistan

[dr.umer]

India Says No Military Action Against Pakistan: Report​

2 Dec 2008

NEW DELHI - India is not considering taking military action against Pakistan over the attacks in Mumbai, Foreign Minister Pranab Mukherjee said.

"Nobody is talking about military action," Mukherjee told reporters.

His comments followed a meeting earlier of India's security cabinet, the top decision-making body on military and diplomatic affairs, which met in the aftermath of last week's Mumbai attacks that claimed 188 lives.

"What will be done, time will show and you will come to know," Mukherjee said.

Earlier, the minister said India had called on Pakistan to hand over 20 terror suspects, including the founder of the militant group accused of carrying out the carnage in Mumbai.

The government demanded "the arrest and handover of those persons who are settled in Pakistan and are fugitives of Indian law," Mukherjee said.

"We will await the response of Pakistan," he added.

The names come from a list of suspects originally put together by New Delhi after Lashkar-e-Taiba gunmen attacked the Indian parliament in December 2001.

The foreign ministry called in the Pakistani High Commissioner late Dec. 1, and demanded Islamabad take "strong action" against what India has described as "elements" in Pakistan behind the Mumbai assault.

The men sought by New Delhi include Hafeez Saeed, the founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based militant group which has become the focus of investigations into the attacks.

Other prominent names include Maulana Masood Azhar, chief of the Jaish-e-Mohammed rebel group, and Dawood Ibrahim, wanted in India on charges of masterminding serial bombings in Mumbai in 1993 that killed around 300 people.

Ibrahim was designated as a "global terrorist" by the U.S. Treasury Department in 2003. He is believed to be living in the southern Pakistani city of Karachi.

Pakistan has repeatedly ruled out sending any of the men on the list to India and has denied Ibrahim even lives in the country.

 

[Cheetah786]

The one known surviving militant behind last week's terrible attacks in Mumbai is reported to have come from the Pakistani village of Faridkot. The BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan travelled there to speak to some of the villagers.

"We're tired of being hounded by people from the media," says Bilal, a Faridkot villager. "They have been coming here every day since the news broke."

He is referring to reports in the international media, following the terror attacks in Mumbai, which said the only surviving militant comes from Faridkot in the province of Punjab.

The reports, which have led to an outcry in India, said the gunman is a Pakistani national variously named as Ajmal Amir Qasab or Kasav.

The information came from interrogation of the gunman, the reports added.

Fertile recruiting ground

They also said that Qasab is a 21-year-old and a fluent English speaker.

That description seems to be at odds with the general population in the village he is said to hail from.

Confusingly, there are three villages by the name of Faridkot in this part of southern Punjab. A BBC Urdu service colleague visited two of them and found no one who knew of the man currently in Indian detention.

I visited a third Faridkot, about 50km (31 miles) from Multan on the road to Khanewal.

It is an archetypal Punjabi village - a dusty enclave of mud and stone buildings of about 4,000 people.
Almost all of the villagers are semi-literate farmers and labourers. They are surrounded by green fields and brimming canals.

Nearby Multan - known as city of the saints - is one of the oldest cities in the world and the hometown of Pakistan's current prime minister and foreign minister.

Located close to the Indian border, the city also houses the headquarters of the Wifaq-ul-Madaris (association of religious schools), which operates establishments throughout Pakistan.

Khanewal is another, smaller city in southern Punjab, an area which since the partition of India has long been known for its strong religious sentiments and staunchly anti-Indian views.

It is also one of Pakistan's most under-developed and poverty stricken areas.

Multan and its adjoining districts have served as a fertile recruitment ground for militant organisations fighting in Kashmir and Afghanistan.

In particular, hundreds of young men joined the Lashkar-e-Toiba and the Jaish-e-Mohammad groups to fight Indian forces in Kashmir.

'Indian propaganda'

But just a week ago, this Faridkot was just another obscure village in Pakistan's rural landscape. Now, question marks over the identity of Mumbai's attackers has shaken it out of its rustic existence.
School is out, and dozens of girls and boys line the broken streets as we venture deep into the village.

A local and his friends are willing to talk, although they are a little jaded by the questions.

"We are all hardworking, honest people here," says Mohammad Ilyas Khan, a local farmer.

"People in the village rarely leave and that is only for occasional work or business trips."

Ilyas Khan adds that no-one from the village has been to India, and he does not know of anyone who has been a member of a militant organisation.

"There were three Ajmals in the village, and none of them fits the description of the man the media has named," he explains.

"One Ajmal worked in Faisalabad (another city in the Punjab) and was killed in an accident. The other two are young men who live in the village. One works as a waiter and the other is employed in a factory."

Qamar-uz-Zaman, another villager, says the men have been recently questioned by Pakistani security agencies
"Obviously, it was a serious accusation and the officials came here to check things out," he said. "They checked the ID cards of both the men and their activities."

Evidently, the security personnel were satisfied by the answers they received as no arrests or detentions have taken place so far.

But the villagers are quite perturbed by this recent turn of events, and vehemently denounce what they call "Indian propaganda".

"No man from our village has ever been involved in any such activity," one says. "It is not fair that so many people have been disturbed by these false accusations."

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Hunting Mumbai militant's roots

So to see where this Terrorist comes from I say clearly RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW RAW.
That bracelet and the color of bracelet naaaaaaah never seen any pakistani wear that specially mullahs no way in hell This is clearly India herself.

 

[Rafael]

DNA - Money - It’s time Pakistan got slammed for harbouring terrorists - Daily News & Analysis

It’s time Pakistan got slammed for harbouring terrorists
R Vaidyanathan
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 03:52 IST


Army-controlled as it is, the country will not mend its ways unless forced to

The three-day-long terror strike on the country’s financial capital was devastating in terms of its reach and impact. It has left Corporate India badly shaken and the elites numb.

It is no more about bombs being thrown at bus stations or trains getting blasted. It is no longer about only Nagpada or Govindpuri residents losing limbs and lives. Terror has now climbed up the value chain. As the new age entrepreneur Kiran Majumdar Shaw told a Bangalore newspaper, “So far, the terrorists targeted common people. Now the society’s elite, the business sector, is the target. What happened in Mumbai is a loud wake-up call for all of us to do something to protect ourselves.”

Corporate India did not bat an eyelid when Mumbai train blasts took place, or when Sarojini Nagar was burning on a Diwali day, or Hyderabad was weeping two years before. But today, every corporate captain is angry, and so are the celebrities who people Page 3 of newspapers, due largely because the attacks on the three top hotels were directly aimed at those who frequent these places, for business or pleasure (contrast this with the scant coverage of the carnage at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, for example, where commoners were involved).

All the same, the bleeding-heart liberals would be back to their routine ways after a few days. They will lament that the captured terrorist has not been given his favourite food and not allowed to watch TV or use his cell phone; they will say his human rights are violated. Just wait for the chorus. Of course, this time it will be between Page 3 and the jholawalas (activists) and that should be an interesting match to watch, but that’s another story.

In the last ten years, not a single session of any seminar sponsored by the CII or Ficci or business/ general journals has focused on terrorism. When this writer once broached the importance of talking about it, a senior business captain said it is for the government to deal with. Many of those seminars gave importance to Musharraf and now Zardari, as if they are going to provide any solution when they are a part of the problem.
Now, at least, terrorism is being realised as a problem facing the country.

Let us summarise what the real situation is and corporate sector should do if we are serious in fighting terrorism on our soil.

1. Recognise and treat Pakistan as a terrorist state. The state policy of Pakistan is terrorism and their single-point programme is to destroy India. This needs to be internalised by every business baron including the owners of media.

2. Now, the elite of Pakistan are more angry, since India is growing at 7% and they are given CCC rating and stiff conditions for borrowing from IMF. Many an academic from that country, who I have met in global conferences, has openly lamented that nobody talks about Indo-Pak relations anymore, but only Indo-China or Indo-American, etc. They want to be equal but they are in deep abyss

3. Pakistan is the only territory in the world where an army has a whole country under its control. This is an important issue since studies have found that a large number of corporates in Pakistan are ultimately owned by the Fauji Foundation (FF), Army Welfare Trust (AWT) Bahria Foundation (BF), Shaheen Foundation (SF) all owned by different wings of armed forces (See paper presented by Dr Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha on “Power, Perks, Prestige And Privileges: Military’s Economic Activities In Pakistan” in The International Conference on Soldiers in Business—Military as an Economic Actor; Jakarta, October 17-19, 2000). Hence, do not try to think of Pakistan without its army, irrespective of who rules that country temporarily and nominally. At least 70% of the market capitalisation of the Karachi stock exchange is owned by the army and related groups.

4. There are three groups in India, who are obsessed with friendship with Pakistan. One is the oldies born in that part before partition and who are nostalgic about the Lahore havelis, halwas and mujras. The second is the Bollywood and other assorted groups, who look at it as a big market. The Dawood gang has financed enough of these useful idiots. The third is the candle light holding bleeding heart liberals (BHLs) who cannot imagine India doing well without its younger brother taken care. All three have been proved wrong hundreds of times, but they are also opinion makers. Shun them, avoid them and ridicule them.

5. We should categorically, unambiguously, unequivocally boycott Pakistan in all aspects for a decade or more. Be it art, music, economy, commerce, or other hand-holding activities. That army-controlled state has to realise that it has done enough damage to global civilisation. More than 100 acts/attempts of terror recorded in the world since 9/11 have had their roots in Pakistan. More than 40% of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pakistanis.

6. We should recognise that it is our war and nobody in the world is going to wage it on our behalf. What the Americans are thinking, or what the Britishers are going to do will not help. A determined country should have a sense of dignity and independence to fight its war.

We should stop interviewing leaders from that country who mouth the same inanities that “you have not produced any proof.” Government of India should perhaps create a museum of proof between India Gate and North block.

I am amazed that a country of billions is required even to furnish proof. If one-sixth of humanity says that the terrorist state of Pakistan is the root cause of global terrorism - it is factual. Let us not fall into the trap of providing proof to the culprits.

7. We should realise that a united Pakistan is a grave threat to the existence of India. Hence, we should do everything possible to break up Pakistan into several units. This is required to be done not only for our interest, but for world peace.

8. We have made a grave blunder by suggesting in the international fora that “Pakistan is also a victim of terror.” That is a grave error and it will haunt us for decades. They are perpetrators and our government is in deep illusion if it tries to distinguish between organs of power in that country thinking it is like India. There is only one organ, namely its army (with ISI as a sub-organ) in that country, which owns and controls at least 70% of the GDP in that country.

If we want the world to treat Pakistan for what it is, then we should start practising it. Always call it the ‘terrorist state of Pakistan’ and never have any illusion that it is going to be any different. If corporate India, including electronic/ print media, starts practising this, we should see results in a few years. Are the elites listening?

The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore, and can be contacted at vaidya@iimb.ernet.in. Views are personal.

Poor chap seriously needs someone to take care of him...may be some good psychatirist... in bangalore

 

[dr.umer]

World community rules out Pak involvement in Mumbai attacks​

December 02, 2008

WASHINGTON: United States, Britain and European Union, rebuffing the possibility of Pakistani involvement behind Mumbai attacks, urged both Islamabad and New Delhi to work together in the probe.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will visit India and Pakistan in a bid to normalise the tense atmosphere and to restore the confidence between the two countries.

Mumbai attacks on 26/11 are being termed as Indian 9/11 in which people, belonging to various countries were killed.

However, world powers criticized the negative and anti-Pakistan propaganda of Indian media.

US President-elect Barack Obama said it was important to let the investigators do their jobs and determine who was responsible for carrying out “these heinous acts” in Mumbai.

“I can tell you that my administration will remain steadfast in support of India’s efforts to catch the perpetrators of this terrible act and bring them to justice. And I expect that the world community will feel the same way,” said Mr Obama.

“And my expectation is that President Zardari of Pakistan, who has already said that he will fully cooperate with the investigation, will follow through with that commitment.”

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said US has no reason to believe that Pakistan’s government was involved in last week’s terrorist attacks in Mumbai, and the Bush administration trusts Pakistan to investigate the issue.

“We have no reason not to trust Pakistan right now,” Ms Perino told reporters at a briefing. “I’ve heard nothing that says the Pakistani government was involved.”

Throughout the briefing the White House spokeswoman played down the suggestion that Pakistan or Pakistani intelligence agencies were involved in the Mumbai attacks or Pakistan cannot be trusted to investigate the attacks despite a promise by President Asif Zardari to do so.

“Remember, Pakistan has been the victim of terrorism, as well, and it is not even quite a year since Benazir Bhutto was assassinated by a terrorist. And so it’s a fresh wound for
them, as well.”

Besides, US and British foreign secretaries held a meeting in London to discuss the prevailing situation in the wake of Mumbai attacks.

Addressing a joint press conference after the meeting, Condoleezza Rice said the criminal elements involved in Mumbai attacks should be brought to the court of justice. She urged both countries to work together for the probe.

While British Foreign Secretary said President Asif Ali Zardari is fully committed to combat terrorism and asked India to improve its security situation.

Similarly, European Union (EU) foreign policy chief Jaiver Solana stressed Pakistan should extend its full cooperation to Indian officials for Mumbai probe.

Solana telephoned Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi and his Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee on Monday.

Speaking to Foreign Minister Qureshi, he lauded Pakistan’s role in terror war.

 

[IceCold]

India is not running after the wrong enemy, the real culprit is Pak, it does not matter who does it, it is orchestrated from Pak.

Ppl are losing lives in Pak simply coz the mechanism created by the ISI for Afghanistan & J&K is like an acid that is now eating into its container.

By all means do carry on with your blame game, We Pakistanis are now quite use to it.
Also people in India are loosing their lives because minorities are constantly being suppressed by the fanatic Hindus under the disguise of secularism, don't take my word for that, just see the amount of freedom movements, the seven sisters, Assam and what not, and you might see the mirror.
Get your own house inorder before raising fingers on others.

 

[third eye]

India has failed to provide any "evidence" so far to Pakistan or US. India is obviously trying to bluff the world. If they really had the evidence why they didn't provide it to us. If they didn't want to provide it to Pakistan, they should have handed it over to FBI but obviously IF THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE...

What evidence has Pak sought from US to authorise Drone & othe Msl attacks on Pak soil ?

What evidence does the world want to know Pak complicity in almost everything that goes wrong in the region ?

What evidence does Pak want to know of Masood & his complicity ?

What evidence does Pak want to know that it is a nation out of control ?

 

[blain2]

DNA - Money - It’s time Pakistan got slammed for harbouring terrorists - Daily News & Analysis

It’s time Pakistan got slammed for harbouring terrorists
R Vaidyanathan
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 03:52 IST


Army-controlled as it is, the country will not mend its ways unless forced to

The three-day-long terror strike on the country’s financial capital was devastating in terms of its reach and impact. It has left Corporate India badly shaken and the elites numb.

It is no more about bombs being thrown at bus stations or trains getting blasted. It is no longer about only Nagpada or Govindpuri residents losing limbs and lives. Terror has now climbed up the value chain. As the new age entrepreneur Kiran Majumdar Shaw told a Bangalore newspaper, “So far, the terrorists targeted common people. Now the society’s elite, the business sector, is the target. What happened in Mumbai is a loud wake-up call for all of us to do something to protect ourselves.”

Corporate India did not bat an eyelid when Mumbai train blasts took place, or when Sarojini Nagar was burning on a Diwali day, or Hyderabad was weeping two years before. But today, every corporate captain is angry, and so are the celebrities who people Page 3 of newspapers, due largely because the attacks on the three top hotels were directly aimed at those who frequent these places, for business or pleasure (contrast this with the scant coverage of the carnage at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, for example, where commoners were involved).

All the same, the bleeding-heart liberals would be back to their routine ways after a few days. They will lament that the captured terrorist has not been given his favourite food and not allowed to watch TV or use his cell phone; they will say his human rights are violated. Just wait for the chorus. Of course, this time it will be between Page 3 and the jholawalas (activists) and that should be an interesting match to watch, but that’s another story.

In the last ten years, not a single session of any seminar sponsored by the CII or Ficci or business/ general journals has focused on terrorism. When this writer once broached the importance of talking about it, a senior business captain said it is for the government to deal with. Many of those seminars gave importance to Musharraf and now Zardari, as if they are going to provide any solution when they are a part of the problem.
Now, at least, terrorism is being realised as a problem facing the country.

Let us summarise what the real situation is and corporate sector should do if we are serious in fighting terrorism on our soil.

1. Recognise and treat Pakistan as a terrorist state. The state policy of Pakistan is terrorism and their single-point programme is to destroy India. This needs to be internalised by every business baron including the owners of media.

2. Now, the elite of Pakistan are more angry, since India is growing at 7% and they are given CCC rating and stiff conditions for borrowing from IMF. Many an academic from that country, who I have met in global conferences, has openly lamented that nobody talks about Indo-Pak relations anymore, but only Indo-China or Indo-American, etc. They want to be equal but they are in deep abyss

3. Pakistan is the only territory in the world where an army has a whole country under its control. This is an important issue since studies have found that a large number of corporates in Pakistan are ultimately owned by the Fauji Foundation (FF), Army Welfare Trust (AWT) Bahria Foundation (BF), Shaheen Foundation (SF) all owned by different wings of armed forces (See paper presented by Dr Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha on “Power, Perks, Prestige And Privileges: Military’s Economic Activities In Pakistan” in The International Conference on Soldiers in Business—Military as an Economic Actor; Jakarta, October 17-19, 2000). Hence, do not try to think of Pakistan without its army, irrespective of who rules that country temporarily and nominally. At least 70% of the market capitalisation of the Karachi stock exchange is owned by the army and related groups.

4. There are three groups in India, who are obsessed with friendship with Pakistan. One is the oldies born in that part before partition and who are nostalgic about the Lahore havelis, halwas and mujras. The second is the Bollywood and other assorted groups, who look at it as a big market. The Dawood gang has financed enough of these useful idiots. The third is the candle light holding bleeding heart liberals (BHLs) who cannot imagine India doing well without its younger brother taken care. All three have been proved wrong hundreds of times, but they are also opinion makers. Shun them, avoid them and ridicule them.

5. We should categorically, unambiguously, unequivocally boycott Pakistan in all aspects for a decade or more. Be it art, music, economy, commerce, or other hand-holding activities. That army-controlled state has to realise that it has done enough damage to global civilisation. More than 100 acts/attempts of terror recorded in the world since 9/11 have had their roots in Pakistan. More than 40% of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pakistanis.

6. We should recognise that it is our war and nobody in the world is going to wage it on our behalf. What the Americans are thinking, or what the Britishers are going to do will not help. A determined country should have a sense of dignity and independence to fight its war.

We should stop interviewing leaders from that country who mouth the same inanities that “you have not produced any proof.” Government of India should perhaps create a museum of proof between India Gate and North block.

I am amazed that a country of billions is required even to furnish proof. If one-sixth of humanity says that the terrorist state of Pakistan is the root cause of global terrorism - it is factual. Let us not fall into the trap of providing proof to the culprits.

7. We should realise that a united Pakistan is a grave threat to the existence of India. Hence, we should do everything possible to break up Pakistan into several units. This is required to be done not only for our interest, but for world peace.

8. We have made a grave blunder by suggesting in the international fora that “Pakistan is also a victim of terror.” That is a grave error and it will haunt us for decades. They are perpetrators and our government is in deep illusion if it tries to distinguish between organs of power in that country thinking it is like India. There is only one organ, namely its army (with ISI as a sub-organ) in that country, which owns and controls at least 70% of the GDP in that country.

If we want the world to treat Pakistan for what it is, then we should start practising it. Always call it the ‘terrorist state of Pakistan’ and never have any illusion that it is going to be any different. If corporate India, including electronic/ print media, starts practising this, we should see results in a few years. Are the elites listening?

The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore, and can be contacted at vaidya@iimb.ernet.in. Views are personal.

Seems like the chap is a regular at BRF with his idea of "TSP" (quite a few of the type find solace there after venting). 70% of the GDP owned and controlled by the Army? Nice!

Point #7 is not something that needs realization. Its always been part of the Indian psyche to a certain extent. Its understood quite well in Pakistan.

I could respond to a few others as well but then it will be in bad taste.

 

[Rafael]

Pakistan, an international migraine: Albright
Agencies Posted: Dec 02, 2008 at 1044 hrs

Washington Counting many elements, including terrorism and nuclear weapons, in Pakistan as causes of international worries, a former top US official has described the South Asian country as an "international migraine".
"...my own sense is Pakistan has everything that gives you an international migraine. It has nuclear weapons, it has terrorism, extremists, corruption, very poor and it's in a location that's really, really important to us. And now with this issue with India. So, I think that the current president and the current secretary of state, who's on her way to India right now, have a very big job ahead of them," said former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

"And I also do think that the next president and the secretary of state are going to have to pay a great deal of attention to that combination of issues, Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, that all fit together. That's very important to the United States," she added.

In the wake of current tension between India and Pakistan following the Mumbai terror attacks, Albright said that Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari was trying very hard to deal with the issue.

"...there's an agreement that the Pakistanis understand what the issue is. I think that if we have clear evidence and intelligence that is one part of this. And that is the Achilles' heel of everything, which is whether you have actual intelligence.

"...I think that he is their president and he is working very hard to try to get control over what is a very difficult place," she added.

Responding to a query on a remark made by President-elect Barack Obama, at his press conference in Chicago, in the wake of last week's terror attacks in Mumbai, the ex-official also endorsed the stand of the incoming US president.

"I think that what President-elect Obama said about the fact that every country, under the United Nations, has the right to defend itself, that is absolutely true. But it's also true that they are investigating everything right now and that it is not appropriate for those of us that are not in the government to comment on this," Albright said on CNN's Situation Room programme.

"I think that sovereign nations obviously have a right to protect themselves. Beyond that, I don't want to comment on the specific situation that has taken place in South Asia right now," Obama had said when asked if India had the same right as he claimed his administration had in going after terror targets inside Pakistan with or without the permission of the government in Islamabad.

I guess india have these too... or they have washed out every thing from ganga???

 

[was]

Pakistan, an international migraine: Albright
Agencies Posted: Dec 02, 2008 at 1044 hrs

Washington Counting many elements, including terrorism and nuclear weapons, in Pakistan as causes of international worries, a former top US official has described the South Asian country as an "international migraine".
"...my own sense is Pakistan has everything that gives you an international migraine. It has nuclear weapons, it has terrorism, extremists, corruption, very poor and it's in a location that's really, really important to us. And now with this issue with India. So, I think that the current president and the current secretary of state, who's on her way to India right now, have a very big job ahead of them," said former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

"And I also do think that the next president and the secretary of state are going to have to pay a great deal of attention to that combination of issues, Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, that all fit together. That's very important to the United States," she added.

In the wake of current tension between India and Pakistan following the Mumbai terror attacks, Albright said that Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari was trying very hard to deal with the issue.

"...there's an agreement that the Pakistanis understand what the issue is. I think that if we have clear evidence and intelligence that is one part of this. And that is the Achilles' heel of everything, which is whether you have actual intelligence.

"...I think that he is their president and he is working very hard to try to get control over what is a very difficult place," she added.

Responding to a query on a remark made by President-elect Barack Obama, at his press conference in Chicago, in the wake of last week's terror attacks in Mumbai, the ex-official also endorsed the stand of the incoming US president.

"I think that what President-elect Obama said about the fact that every country, under the United Nations, has the right to defend itself, that is absolutely true. But it's also true that they are investigating everything right now and that it is not appropriate for those of us that are not in the government to comment on this," Albright said on CNN's Situation Room programme.

"I think that sovereign nations obviously have a right to protect themselves. Beyond that, I don't want to comment on the specific situation that has taken place in South Asia right now," Obama had said when asked if India had the same right as he claimed his administration had in going after terror targets inside Pakistan with or without the permission of the government in Islamabad.

do not post articles from times of india or other shits like that here

 

[IceCold]

What evidence has Pak sought from US to authorise Drone & othe Msl attacks on Pak soil ?

India is not USA, so dont even compare yourself with the situation that is there.

What evidence does the world want to know Pak complicity in almost everything that goes wrong in the region ?

Don't hide behind paper walls, bring out just one, already the world is saying that Pakistan is not involved in this drama of yours, go check out the article posted on this forum.

What evidence does Pak want to know of Masood & his complicity ?

What evidence does India needs to know about BLA and their complicity?

What evidence does Pak want to know that it is a nation out of control ?

Nothing and that too from India who has no control over its own people and one that has more number of freedom movements going on then anywhere else in the whole of the south Asia.

 

[IceCold]

Pakistan, an international migraine: Albright
Agencies Posted: Dec 02, 2008 at 1044 hrs

Washington Counting many elements, including terrorism and nuclear weapons, in Pakistan as causes of international worries, a former top US official has described the South Asian country as an "international migraine".
"...my own sense is Pakistan has everything that gives you an international migraine. It has nuclear weapons, it has terrorism, extremists, corruption, very poor and it's in a location that's really, really important to us. And now with this issue with India. So, I think that the current president and the current secretary of state, who's on her way to India right now, have a very big job ahead of them," said former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

"And I also do think that the next president and the secretary of state are going to have to pay a great deal of attention to that combination of issues, Pakistan, India and Afghanistan, that all fit together. That's very important to the United States," she added.

In the wake of current tension between India and Pakistan following the Mumbai terror attacks, Albright said that Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari was trying very hard to deal with the issue.

"...there's an agreement that the Pakistanis understand what the issue is. I think that if we have clear evidence and intelligence that is one part of this. And that is the Achilles' heel of everything, which is whether you have actual intelligence.

"...I think that he is their president and he is working very hard to try to get control over what is a very difficult place," she added.

Responding to a query on a remark made by President-elect Barack Obama, at his press conference in Chicago, in the wake of last week's terror attacks in Mumbai, the ex-official also endorsed the stand of the incoming US president.

"I think that what President-elect Obama said about the fact that every country, under the United Nations, has the right to defend itself, that is absolutely true. But it's also true that they are investigating everything right now and that it is not appropriate for those of us that are not in the government to comment on this," Albright said on CNN's Situation Room programme.

"I think that sovereign nations obviously have a right to protect themselves. Beyond that, I don't want to comment on the specific situation that has taken place in South Asia right now," Obama had said when asked if India had the same right as he claimed his administration had in going after terror targets inside Pakistan with or without the permission of the government in Islamabad.

What happened? IS bandwidth on BR too filled with the trash, so much so that it has started to ponder elsewhere.

Too many Indians bad for health.

 

[dr.umer]

McCain opposes military action against Pakistan, wants hard evidence​

December 3rd, 2008

New Delhi, Dec 2 (IANS) US Senator John McCain, the Republican candidate who lost the presidential race to Barack Obama, Tuesday said he was hopeful of Pakistan’s cooperation with India in the Mumbai terrorist attack probe and opposed a military strike against Islamabad. Underlining solidarity with India in the wake of the Nov 26 terror attacks, he said the US would not allow terrorists to provoke a confrontation between India and Pakistan.

“I assume the government of Pakistan will cooperate. They realise that this act of terror is not something that affects India but all the civilised nations,” McCain said.

“No,” he replied when asked whether the Mumbai attacks were a “fit case” for India to launch military action against Pakistan.

“We do not have hard evidence yet. Obviously, there are allegations that this organisation, this individual or this group were trained or operated or had some training in Pakistan,” said McCain.

“This government is committed to better relations between India and Pakistan. They (those behind the Mumbai carnage) tried to provoke a confrontation between India and Pakistan,” McCain told reporters here.

“This government will not allow it to happen,” he said, indicating a pro-active US role in thwarting any breakdown of dialogue between India and Pakistan in the wake of the Nov 26 terror strikes.

“Relations between India and Pakistan were on an improving path. That was one of the objectives of terrorists (to strain ties between the two countries),” McCain said.

He, however, hoped that Pakistan will cooperate in addressing India’s concerns over the terror strikes and show “transparency” in this connection.

“It is in the national interests of Pakistan to weaken these elements,” he replied when asked whether the US will put pressure on Islamabad to act against those elements in Pakistan whom India suspect to be behind the Mumbai attacks.

McCain, the Republican senator from Arizona, was on his way to Bangladesh and Bhutan but decided to make a brief stopover here in the wake of the Mumbai strikes that has killed 183 people, including six Americans, and left 239 people injured.

McCain was echoing anxieties in Washington about the repercussions of potential India-Pakistan confrontation on the US war against fundamentalists in Afghanistan.

If such a situation arises, Pakistan is likely to move its troops from the Afghan border to its border with India - a move which could damage the US hopes of defeating the Taliban in Afghanistan.

McCain’s trip to India comes a day before US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice arrives here in a bid to arrest the drift in fraying India-Pakistan ties in the wake of the terror attacks.

McCain, along with two other senators, Democrat Jospeh Lieberman and Lindsey O. Graham, called on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh here and underlined the US’ solidarity with India in the fight against terrorism.

In their conversation with the prime minister, they offered to share the US’ experiences in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, Lieberman said.

They also told the prime minister about the counter-terror steps he US has taken, including the creation of the department of homeland security and a national counter-terrorism centre, said Lieberman.

President George W. Bush and president-elect Obama are acting in close coordination over the Mumbai terror strikes, the Republican senator said while underlining bipartisan support in the US to India in the aftermath of the terror strikes.

“We would be meeting Pakistan General (Ashfaq) Kiyani over the weekend and raise some questions with him,” Liebermann told reporters here.

 

[hasang20]

McCain opposes military action against Pakistan, wants hard evidence​

December 3rd, 2008

New Delhi, Dec 2 (IANS) US Senator John McCain, the Republican candidate who lost the presidential race to Barack Obama, Tuesday said he was hopeful of Pakistan’s cooperation with India in the Mumbai terrorist attack probe and opposed a military strike against Islamabad. Underlining solidarity with India in the wake of the Nov 26 terror attacks, he said the US would not allow terrorists to provoke a confrontation between India and Pakistan.

“I assume the government of Pakistan will cooperate. They realise that this act of terror is not something that affects India but all the civilised nations,” McCain said.

“No,” he replied when asked whether the Mumbai attacks were a “fit case” for India to launch military action against Pakistan.

“We do not have hard evidence yet. Obviously, there are allegations that this organisation, this individual or this group were trained or operated or had some training in Pakistan,” said McCain.

“This government is committed to better relations between India and Pakistan. They (those behind the Mumbai carnage) tried to provoke a confrontation between India and Pakistan,” McCain told reporters here.

“This government will not allow it to happen,” he said, indicating a pro-active US role in thwarting any breakdown of dialogue between India and Pakistan in the wake of the Nov 26 terror strikes.

“Relations between India and Pakistan were on an improving path. That was one of the objectives of terrorists (to strain ties between the two countries),” McCain said.

He, however, hoped that Pakistan will cooperate in addressing India’s concerns over the terror strikes and show “transparency” in this connection.

“It is in the national interests of Pakistan to weaken these elements,” he replied when asked whether the US will put pressure on Islamabad to act against those elements in Pakistan whom India suspect to be behind the Mumbai attacks.

McCain, the Republican senator from Arizona, was on his way to Bangladesh and Bhutan but decided to make a brief stopover here in the wake of the Mumbai strikes that has killed 183 people, including six Americans, and left 239 people injured.

McCain was echoing anxieties in Washington about the repercussions of potential India-Pakistan confrontation on the US war against fundamentalists in Afghanistan.

If such a situation arises, Pakistan is likely to move its troops from the Afghan border to its border with India - a move which could damage the US hopes of defeating the Taliban in Afghanistan.

McCain’s trip to India comes a day before US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice arrives here in a bid to arrest the drift in fraying India-Pakistan ties in the wake of the terror attacks.

McCain, along with two other senators, Democrat Jospeh Lieberman and Lindsey O. Graham, called on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh here and underlined the US’ solidarity with India in the fight against terrorism.

In their conversation with the prime minister, they offered to share the US’ experiences in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, Lieberman said.

They also told the prime minister about the counter-terror steps he US has taken, including the creation of the department of homeland security and a national counter-terrorism centre, said Lieberman.

President George W. Bush and president-elect Obama are acting in close coordination over the Mumbai terror strikes, the Republican senator said while underlining bipartisan support in the US to India in the aftermath of the terror strikes.

“We would be meeting Pakistan General (Ashfaq) Kiyani over the weekend and raise some questions with him,” Liebermann told reporters here.

seriously stop posting unicorn atricles India wont go to war with Pakistan for very very simple facts

-India Nuclear Missiles doesnt work (they need 10 more years)

 

[dr.umer]

seriously stop posting unicorn atricles India wont go to war with Pakistan for very very simple facts

-India Nuclear Missiles doesnt work (they need 10 more years)

No one is saying India is going for war with Pakistan. From where did you get that ?

Seriously - your comments about Indian nuclear weapons - Was it an effort to flame this thread ?

Better don't.

 

[dr.umer]

The Indian Government should reveal why the Indian public should fall prey to terror​

Now described as India’s 9/11, the Mumbai 60 hour siege will go down in history leaving many still baffled at how a handful of men under 30 years of age, were able to take over 10 sites in India’s busiest city in four straight days of carnage. With possibly 300 dead including 3 of Mumbai’s top anti-terrorist officers the gruesome takeover of Mumbai by extremist gunmen only revealed India’s ill-preparedness & institutional incapability despite warnings that should have prompted timely action.

Thus, do not the 18million Mumbai citizens as well as the Indian public not have the right to question the Indian Government – demand why there were no helicopters available to transport the elite commandos to the besieged sites and why it took over 10 hours for them to finally reach Mumbai’s terror sites but more importantly remains the question why such gunmen should hate the Indian public so much? The Indian public needs to know from the Indian Government why terror should take place in India.

The meticulous planning involved goes without saying and it will provide analysts plenty of research material. We can but guess the number of terrorists who entered Mumbai via the trawler, how many entered by land, how long they stayed in Mumbai, how they booked into the hotels, how they were able to store the weapons - were not the rooms cleaned each morning by hotel staff as is customary, who visited them, how many terrorists actually escaped and are they still in India, how they could remain awake through the night firing indiscriminately and what were their actual plan.

India’s intelligence says it was to blow up the Taj and kill 5000 people, the 1st could have been done easily on the first day, 5000 people is somewhat questionable which next raises the question of how much weapons remain unused in the rooms booked by them – India’s public must be having plenty of questions. The gunmen knew each of their targets thoroughly, they knew all the hotel layouts even secret entrances, they had Blackberry’s and GPS devices, including night-vision goggles which the police lacked, even the elite Black Cats had not been provided with thermal imaging equipment to distinguish terrorists from hotel guests to facilitate their operation and eventually all the hostages at Nariman House ended up dead. The 26/11 Mumbai siege can be equated to 21st century terrorism outsmarting India’s 20th century weapons & equipment.

The 26/11 attack on Mumbai has certainly shaken up the Indian establishment. Realizing that promises to beef up security alone is unlikely to decrease the anger amongst India’s public the Home Minister has been replaced with P. Chiddambaran who incidentally was the Minister of State for Internal Security in Rajiv Gandhi's government. Even the infamous National Security Advisor – M K Narayan is also likely to be replaced. He being one of the architects of regional terrorism during the days he was part of the institutional establishment created to destabilize friendly nations.

Whether it was "elements in Pakistan" that were responsible for the attacks the critical question is why would India at all be prone to terror attacks unless India’s Governments have not infringed upon nations, used similar tactics to disturb amd disrupt another country. If this be the case, then the 26/11 is likely to be ghosts of ones past misdemeanors returning to remind India that there is a thing called nemesis. It then gives India’s citizens every right to demand of its Governments what follies they have committed for obviously India’s public is not party to any of these malpractices that successive Indian Governments have adopted to reign supreme. Indians are proud to be Indian but surely not if it means that India has cheated its way to supremacy through covert and overt tactics used by Indian Governments.

Having managed to capture one of the gunman the Indian authorities interrogating him has revealed that he belongs to the militant Islamic group Lashkar-e-Taiba which obviously meant to insinuate Pakistan’s involvement & stir anti-Pakistan Muslim sentiments though all the time aware that there is a large Muslim vote base that none of the politicos wish to disturb too much. The Pakistan Government has denied any links to the Mumbai attacks and has even asked India to investigate the possibilities of the men being from South India and having ties to the LTTE terrorists.

With elections in India drawing near the anti-terrorism drives will usher similar sentiments of the US 9/11 which took place at a time when George Bush’s popularity was at an all time low. The 9/11 incident created a rebound and Bush ended up the Messiah for the US public with his "war on terror" slogan. Now evidence keeps surfacing that the Bush administration was well aware of an attack in 2001 some even claiming US staged 9/11 to strategically base itself in the Middle East & take over its oil reserves & build up a pro-western culture base. Similarly, India is now seeing to follow a similar path though the Indian publics have elevated themselves and refuse to be befooled again. They are now demanding more accountability from their politicians.

More than "who" actually attacked Mumbai the critical question any Indian should ask is "why"? Politicians will eagerly attempt to run after the "who" ignoring the "why" for answering the "why" would lead to many skeletons being revealed in their closets which have been hidden from the public.

We all understand the power of the Indian media – apart from their desire to "be the first to report" they do a very commendable job. The manner in which they covered the Mumbai siege needs commendation for they kept most of the footage disclosed not wishing to jeopardize the NSG operation. They voiced the sentiments of the public but did not overdo nor attempted to take any political side – this is a far cry from the journalistic or media coverage happening in Sri Lanka. The open praise and salutes of gratitude to the men in uniform repeatedly over media gave Indians a sense of pride in them and was important to hold sentiments of unification. In Sri Lanka we often find the media those opposing the Government ever ready to sensationalize stories even fabricate and very few channels actually have a good word to say about the agonies that the Sri Lankan men in uniform go through in their bid to rid terrorism from Sri Lanka.

The moment the news of the gunmen signaling out US and British passport holders broke out it guaranteed US and British media attention, the takeover of the Nariman House gave the message that the gunmen were anti-Israeli – this was obviously what the gunmen wanted. We are well aware that terrorists enjoy media coverage just as much as the media gains from such coverage.

What we need to remember is that it is not important whether the gunmen were Al Qaeda or a franchise – what can be deduced by the deaths is that age, religion, caste or creed did not matter when the gunmen began their shooting spree. They were purely trained to kill indiscriminately – that is why we call them terrorists. What is the point in referring to them as "suspected" – if they hold a gun and they shoot randomly they are nothing but terrorists. It is timely to go back 10 months when more than 200 people were killed throughout India, but Mumbai’s attack was by far different and more dramatic – it lasted almost 4 days and must surely provide inspiration for even homegrown terrorists to try similar soft targets.

It is for India to pick the forest from the trees. Whether it is the Deccan Mujahideen, the ISI, the Al Qaeda or the Lashkar-e-Taiba or even a complete outsider is secondary what is important to know is that the arms industries, the men who build up hatred amongst youth enough to maim & kill belong to transnational networks. No one in the end is a member of any entity – India must not look for the symptoms but the cause.

There are essentially two threats to global security (national and international) transnational crime & terrorist activity both are not to be taken separately but having close links and ties to one another though transnational criminals are only interested in making money while terrorists desire to make money to support their political and ideological objectives. It is easy to comprehend how terrorists involve themselves in organized crime to financially bolster their appearance and visibility. Both entities operate in areas with weak enforcement of laws, use sophisticated technology and launder money. Southern Philippines, Parts of Indonesia, Russian Far East, and Golden Triangle & Sri Lanka become some of these networks for transnational crime & terrorist activity.

We are all aware that an increasing share of the world economy is attributed to illicit activity such as drugs, human trafficking, small arms sales, illicit transport of natural resource and piracy. Terrorism and narcotics become linked when we consider Colombia’s FARC, the KLA in Kosovo, Taliban & Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and the LTTE in Sri Lanka. These illegitimate dealings however are artfully combined with legitimate fund making drives in the form of charity organizations which are used in large measures to deposit funds.

These groups operate on a network structure that becomes impossible to locate or identify the leaders. Thus the transnational scope with which they function enables them to unite individuals from across the globe at any given time. Such criminal activity is likely to provide a defining problem as the 21st century progresses leaving economic discrepancies between developing & developed countries, weak states that terrorist groups operate to make good of these discrepancies & transform issues into political uprisings.

Countries that join the war on terrorism cannot set aside the links to transnational crime and a cohesive operation across borders and nations is called for leaving aside petty differences between leaderships. India being the larger of the South Asian nations need to assess how it functions within the SAARC region, accept its follies vis a vis destabling operations carried out in practically all of the nations that make up the SAARC.

India need not be reminded of its illicit maneuverings in Sri Lanka amd training supporting LTTE terrorism through Tamil Nadu and other regional terrorist groups though one of India's leaders eventually became assassinated by the LTTE terrorism which turned the tables on its master. India's public many of whom must be clueless about how far the Indian Governments have assisted terrorism in Sri Lanka may be shocked to learn the truth. Furthermore, despite the 2008 Global Hunger Index revealing that 200million Indians suffer from hunger, India sends tons of food to Sri Lanka's North even though the Sri Lankan Government repeatedly insists it has sufficient quantities in stock for 3 months to look after the IDPs.

Is this not a case of political bullying by India without first looking after the hunger needs of Indians first? Similarly, if Indians are proud of their people and take pride in their sovereignty, will the Indian people ask the Indian Government why it allows Tamil Nadu politicos to openly support a banned terrorist entity in the form of the LTTE – a terrorist group that was banned first by India for its assassination on Rajiv Gandhi? Will the Indian people not ask the Indian Government why it allows the Tamil Nadu politicos to virtually hold the Central Government to ransom, why the Indian Prime Minister should given an audience to the Tamil Nadu Chief Minister whose name was even linked to the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi and who was to meet the Indian Premier the very day the gunmen struck Mumbai to force a ceasefire in Sri Lanka and allow the LTTE terrorists to regroup.

What right does the Tamil Nadu politicos have to demand that India’s Central Government should force the sovereign Government of Sri Lanka to stop its army from eliminating LTTE terrorism?

Why should India wish to interfere in internal affairs of another sovereign country – is this the India that says it is against terrorism in all its forms? Is this the India that goes on international stages bemoaning the ills that terrorism brings to the world – the actions of the Indian Government reveals how much vote bank politics becomes important for political survival and the Tamil Nadu politicos know exactly how to play their game.

Does the Indian public not know how much pressure India's Central Government exerts upon Sri Lanka's Government even to force a sovereign nation to buy weapons only from India? Does the Indian public not wonder why India's Central Government is indirectly supporting the LTTE by allowing the Tamil Nadu politicos to unite with the LTTE which wants to secure a separate state for the Tamil people not realizing that this bid is a larger ploy to annexing the Eelam with Tamil Nadu and eventually creating a bigger Tamil State – is the Indian people party to all of this manipulation. The Indian Central Government wishes to have its public focused on terrorism linking it to traditional arch rival Pakistan – this self-serving approach will only create more misery for the Indian public who will bear the brunt of terror strikes since politicos are guarded to the teeth with security.

Obviously the Indian public is clueless of what the Indian Government does in the region – it is such insincere operations, manipulations, covert operations, intelligence faux pax that has today backfired to create a nemesis upon the Indian public.

The Indian public is today going to pay for the sins of their successive Governments and pinning the blame on "elements" is unlikely to solve whats likely to be in store for India. The 26/11 Mumbai terror ended in 4 days, India may have to face more sieges unless the Indian people who have shown great courage in not allowing communalism to brew but have rightly diverted their anger towards the real culprits – the politicians. Their guilt is evident by the manner in which none have entered Mumbai. It is time for the Indian public to take democracy into their own hands & demand that manipulative politics in a region that should remain united largely on account of the historical & cultural ties that exist between the neighbors should be fostered & not festered. Enough is Enough.

Indian public – we urge you not to allow your Governments to bring down our region and create the anarchy that exists in Africa and parts of the Middle East.

- Asian Tribune -