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Is Indian Aggresive Posturing Prelude to a Fourth War with Pakistan

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the indian police force is woefully under equipped. the terrorists killed a dozen or more policemen, and the military had to be called in to clear terrorists from the building. also, the reaction of the police to the attacks were too slow.

when our country is facing so much terrorism, its a shame that we can spend large amounts on ships and planes that may never see action, but can't spend some money to enable the police to better protect the citizens of india.

Yes I was surprised that the police were using primitive single shot rifles against AK 47's and other assault weapons.
 
http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1210789

It’s time Pakistan got slammed for harbouring terrorists
R Vaidyanathan
Tuesday, December 02, 2008 03:52 IST


Army-controlled as it is, the country will not mend its ways unless forced to

The three-day-long terror strike on the country’s financial capital was devastating in terms of its reach and impact. It has left Corporate India badly shaken and the elites numb.

It is no more about bombs being thrown at bus stations or trains getting blasted. It is no longer about only Nagpada or Govindpuri residents losing limbs and lives. Terror has now climbed up the value chain. As the new age entrepreneur Kiran Majumdar Shaw told a Bangalore newspaper, “So far, the terrorists targeted common people. Now the society’s elite, the business sector, is the target. What happened in Mumbai is a loud wake-up call for all of us to do something to protect ourselves.”

Corporate India did not bat an eyelid when Mumbai train blasts took place, or when Sarojini Nagar was burning on a Diwali day, or Hyderabad was weeping two years before. But today, every corporate captain is angry, and so are the celebrities who people Page 3 of newspapers, due largely because the attacks on the three top hotels were directly aimed at those who frequent these places, for business or pleasure (contrast this with the scant coverage of the carnage at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, for example, where commoners were involved).

All the same, the bleeding-heart liberals would be back to their routine ways after a few days. They will lament that the captured terrorist has not been given his favourite food and not allowed to watch TV or use his cell phone; they will say his human rights are violated. Just wait for the chorus. Of course, this time it will be between Page 3 and the jholawalas (activists) and that should be an interesting match to watch, but that’s another story.

In the last ten years, not a single session of any seminar sponsored by the CII or Ficci or business/ general journals has focused on terrorism. When this writer once broached the importance of talking about it, a senior business captain said it is for the government to deal with. Many of those seminars gave importance to Musharraf and now Zardari, as if they are going to provide any solution when they are a part of the problem.
Now, at least, terrorism is being realised as a problem facing the country.

Let us summarise what the real situation is and corporate sector should do if we are serious in fighting terrorism on our soil.

1. Recognise and treat Pakistan as a terrorist state. The state policy of Pakistan is terrorism and their single-point programme is to destroy India. This needs to be internalised by every business baron including the owners of media.

2. Now, the elite of Pakistan are more angry, since India is growing at 7% and they are given CCC rating and stiff conditions for borrowing from IMF. Many an academic from that country, who I have met in global conferences, has openly lamented that nobody talks about Indo-Pak relations anymore, but only Indo-China or Indo-American, etc. They want to be equal but they are in deep abyss

3. Pakistan is the only territory in the world where an army has a whole country under its control. This is an important issue since studies have found that a large number of corporates in Pakistan are ultimately owned by the Fauji Foundation (FF), Army Welfare Trust (AWT) Bahria Foundation (BF), Shaheen Foundation (SF) all owned by different wings of armed forces (See paper presented by Dr Ayesha Siddiqa-Agha on “Power, Perks, Prestige And Privileges: Military’s Economic Activities In Pakistan” in The International Conference on Soldiers in Business—Military as an Economic Actor; Jakarta, October 17-19, 2000). Hence, do not try to think of Pakistan without its army, irrespective of who rules that country temporarily and nominally. At least 70% of the market capitalisation of the Karachi stock exchange is owned by the army and related groups.

4. There are three groups in India, who are obsessed with friendship with Pakistan. One is the oldies born in that part before partition and who are nostalgic about the Lahore havelis, halwas and mujras. The second is the Bollywood and other assorted groups, who look at it as a big market. The Dawood gang has financed enough of these useful idiots. The third is the candle light holding bleeding heart liberals (BHLs) who cannot imagine India doing well without its younger brother taken care. All three have been proved wrong hundreds of times, but they are also opinion makers. Shun them, avoid them and ridicule them.

5. We should categorically, unambiguously, unequivocally boycott Pakistan in all aspects for a decade or more. Be it art, music, economy, commerce, or other hand-holding activities. That army-controlled state has to realise that it has done enough damage to global civilisation. More than 100 acts/attempts of terror recorded in the world since 9/11 have had their roots in Pakistan. More than 40% of the prisoners in Guantanamo are Pakistanis.

6. We should recognise that it is our war and nobody in the world is going to wage it on our behalf. What the Americans are thinking, or what the Britishers are going to do will not help. A determined country should have a sense of dignity and independence to fight its war.

We should stop interviewing leaders from that country who mouth the same inanities that “you have not produced any proof.” Government of India should perhaps create a museum of proof between India Gate and North block.

I am amazed that a country of billions is required even to furnish proof. If one-sixth of humanity says that the terrorist state of Pakistan is the root cause of global terrorism - it is factual. Let us not fall into the trap of providing proof to the culprits.

7. We should realise that a united Pakistan is a grave threat to the existence of India. Hence, we should do everything possible to break up Pakistan into several units. This is required to be done not only for our interest, but for world peace.

8. We have made a grave blunder by suggesting in the international fora that “Pakistan is also a victim of terror.” That is a grave error and it will haunt us for decades. They are perpetrators and our government is in deep illusion if it tries to distinguish between organs of power in that country thinking it is like India. There is only one organ, namely its army (with ISI as a sub-organ) in that country, which owns and controls at least 70% of the GDP in that country.

If we want the world to treat Pakistan for what it is, then we should start practising it. Always call it the ‘terrorist state of Pakistan’ and never have any illusion that it is going to be any different. If corporate India, including electronic/ print media, starts practising this, we should see results in a few years. Are the elites listening?

The writer is professor of finance and control, Indian Institute of Management - Bangalore, and can be contacted at vaidya@iimb.ernet.in. Views are personal.
 
Yes I was surprised that the police were using primitive single shot rifles against AK 47's and other assault weapons.

What is more disturbing that some policemen were caught in this tragedy only with sticks let alone a rifle.
 
What is more disturbing that some policemen were caught in this tragedy only with sticks let alone a rifle.

No wonder the terrorists are doing so well in India. If India did not waste its time thinking on non-existent external threats and spent more money on their police forces terrorism in the country would be significantly cut.
 
India Terror Attacks Won't Hurt Economy, Goldman Says

Dec. 2 (Bloomberg) -- India's economy may outperform expectations as long as relations with neighboring Pakistan aren't derailed by last week's terrorist attacks on Mumbai, said Jim O'Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

``So long as Indian and Pakistani policy makers don't do really silly things, India is in a position to start doing better than people think it might do,'' said O'Neill, who in 2001 coined the acronym BRIC from the initials of the four big emerging economies of Brazil, Russia, India and China.

India's foreign ministry yesterday blamed Pakistani ``elements'' for the shooting and bombings in Mumbai and told its neighbor to match its words of cooperation with ``strong action'' to build a ``qualitative new relationship.''

India stopped short of accusing the Pakistan government of complicity, which may help ease tensions between the two nuclear-armed rivals. India's economic growth slowed to an 11- year low in 2003 as the neighbors placed 1 million troops on their shared border for six months following a terrorist attack on India's parliament in New Delhi.

``Relations between the countries have come to a level of maturity now and such incidents won't hurt relations,'' said Monis Ahmer, head of the international relations department at Karachi University. ``There are some elements, such as terrorist organizations, extremists and the smuggling gangs that dislike the peace and joint cooperation between two countries.''

The attacks on luxury hotels, a railway station, a cafe and a Jewish Center in the financial capital of Mumbai on Nov. 26 killed 195 people, making it the worst terrorist strike in India in 15 years.

Three Wars

It came four days after President Asif Ali Zardari called for improved economic and political ties with India and said Pakistan won't be the first country to use a nuclear weapon in any conflict with India.

``I don't feel threatened by India and India shouldn't feel threatened by us,'' Zardari said in a videoconference at an event in New Delhi on Nov. 22.

India and Pakistan have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947 and have been seeking to improve ties in the past five years after coming close to a fourth conflict in 2002.

Two of the wars were over control of the Himalayan territory of Jammu and Kashmir, the only Muslim-dominated province in India.

Zardari said the impulse for reaching an accord on Kashmir, divided between the neighbors and claimed by both, should come from the people and politicians. He said the need for a visa to cross the border could be scrapped and that an ``e-card swipe'' would suffice.

`Positive Noises'

``What really interests me about the whole of this, is that this attack came at the end of a week where Pakistan was making the most powerfully positive noises toward rapprochement with India that I have seen in a long time,'' London-based O'Neill said. ``I worry whether the attacks were motivated partly to derail some of the momentum from the Pakistani proposals. Hopefully they won't.''

The outlawed Lashkar-i-Taiba, a Kashmiri guerilla group alleged to have carried out the attacks, still operates training camps for militants inside Pakistan and has expanded its membership, the Washington Post reported, citing Michael Scheuer, a former Central Intelligence Agency analyst.

Ajmal Amir Kasab, the only suspected terrorist caught by the police, told interrogators that 24 people were trained in Pakistan over the course of a year, 10 of whom were picked for the Mumbai operation, the Times of India reported Nov. 30, citing unidentified people.

Oil Prices

O'Neill said the fact that the Bombay Stock Exchange's stock index rose on the first trading day after the attacks showed there was no ``panic'' among investors.

``It's not going to have any long-term impact on business in India,'' said Karl Slym, managing director of the Indian unit of General Motors Corp., the largest U.S. automaker. ``We have a billion-dollar investment. We had a new plant that just opened a couple of months ago. We continue to ramp up that new plant and other investments as well for India.''

O'Neill said the drop in global crude oil prices ``is really important positive news'' for India, which imports three- quarters of its oil needs.

Falling oil prices have helped slow India's inflation to 8.84 percent from a 16-year high of 12.42 percent in less than three months. That may result in more ``aggressive'' interest- rate cuts by the central bank, said Sonal Varma, an economist at Nomura International Plc in Mumbai.

The decline in energy prices prompted Minister Palaniappan Chidambaram, who was moved to the home ministry yesterday from finance to tackle internal security, to say last month that growth in India will ``bounce back'' to 9 percent next year from as low as 7 percent in the year ending March 31.

``If India can stop worrying about its constant coalition politics and do some things to stimulate investments including attracting more foreign direct investments both in finance and elsewhere, I think India could easily start to do better soon,'' O'Neill said. ``India's basic framework means it's much more resilient to global de-leveraging than everywhere else including China.''

Indian commercial lenders have just $1 billion of sub-prime loans in the U.S. out of a total loan portfolio of $510 billion, according to the central bank.

Bloomberg.com: India & Pakistan
 
No wonder the terrorists are doing so well in India. If India did not waste its time thinking on non-existent external threats and spent more money on their police forces terrorism in the country would be significantly cut.

Indeed, same goes for spending billions building tanks that never work or aircraft that fly after 30 years only to be rejected. :disagree:
 
People are dying just because India is running after the wrong enemy, every time when something of this sort happens, the real culprits escape while both the government and media is busy blaming Pakistan.
Like i said elsewhere does it help? no it doesn't not even one bit. People are loosing their lives in Pakistan as well, but we for one don't jump on to conclusions unlike you guys who by default know that whenever something bad happens, it has to be Pakistan and not anyone else.
Rest assured, if moods on your street are changing, so are they on ours, government is already facing some heavy criticism not only from the opposition parties, but also from ex army men, defense analysts, media and what not for adopting a negative sorry *** attitude. How long do you think that Zardari will sacrifice his political career just to please India? PM has already called on the security council meeting tomorrow to discuss the growing tensions between Pakistan and India, the tribals have not only agreed for a cease fire in the FATA region but also to assist PA in the time of need so that PA could focus on her energy on the Indian front if tensions continue to grow.
So in any way India is not going anywhere with this, as i mentioned previously 200000 more just to avenge for 200, i don't think Indian sarkar is that stupid, however i do agree on this fact that Singh will be under pressure, the elections are near by too.

As for not changing anything in Pakistan, well the same could be said against India who’s in spite of numerous claims, still considers Pakistan as the main cause for all its problems.


India is not running after the wrong enemy, the real culprit is Pak, it does not matter who does it, it is orchestrated from Pak.

Ppl are losing lives in Pak simply coz the mechanism created by the ISI for Afghanistan & J&K is like an acid that is now eating into its container.
 
India is not running after the wrong enemy, the real culprit is Pak, it does not matter who does it, it is orchestrated from Pak.

Ppl are losing lives in Pak simply coz the mechanism created by the ISI for Afghanistan & J&K is like an acid that is now eating into its container.

India has failed to provide any "evidence" so far to Pakistan or US. India is obviously trying to bluff the world. If they really had the evidence why they didn't provide it to us. If they didn't want to provide it to Pakistan, they should have handed it over to FBI but obviously IF THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE...;)
 
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Its kind of stupid what some section is predicting a war ,but let me make some points clear here ,people of India donot want war but want police and other forces to be well equipped and better terror laws and Federal anti-terror unit and more commandos unit ,to avoid any future attacks
 
India has failed to provide any "evidence" so far to Pakistan or US. India is obviously trying to bluff the world. If they really had the evidence why they didn't provide it to us. If they didn't want to provide it to Pakistan, they should have handed it over to FBI but obviously IF THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE...;)

FBI and Australian and Israeli investigation agency are already in India and all evidence will be provided to them ,ISI chief was asked to come but he did a U-turn now who is bluffing ??
 
FBI and Australian and Israeli investigation agency are already in India and all evidence will be provided to them ,ISI chief was asked to come but he did a U-turn now who is bluffing ??

Does it really make difference that ISI's Chief is visiting or Joint Director is visiting ? Come out of kiddish mentality please.
 
The US has already said they do not feel that Pakistan is to blame, Indians try to over play it and they will end up looking foolish.
 
The US has already said they do not feel that Pakistan is to blame, Indians try to over play it and they will end up looking foolish.

Unlike Pak, what the US feels does not matter much in India.
 
Here is an interesting clip from Capital Talk aired on Dec 1, 2008. Just look at how confidently Indian media is creating a war hype in Indian masses and also read (below) one "Indian press report" denying it.

Lt. General (R) Asad Durrani's (former DS ISI) comments are worth listening.


Now in this report published in "Hindu" their Chacha has disappeared.

No evidence so far of local involvement

1 Dec 2008

Praveen Swami

MUMBAI: Sources in the joint Mumbai Police-Intelligence Bureau investigation team, probing last week’s terror attack, said efforts to harvest further evidence through exploring the Lashkar’s possible local infrastructure have so far yielded little.

Police were investigating the possible role of a Mumbai smuggling syndicate run by city resident Ali Mohammad Sheikh. Investigators had explored the possibility that Sheikh may have been involved in facilitating the landing of the 10 fidayeen on Mumbai’s coast and the providing local infrastructure needed for target reconnaissance.

“No substance”

However, police sources said, both source reports and Kamaal’s interrogation suggested that no local Lashkar supporters were involved in the execution of Wednesday’s terror attack.

Police sources also said there was no substance in reports that the terrorists had communicated with their command headquarters in Pakistan using mobile phones.

Reports that Lashkar operatives had checked into one or more hotels prior to the attacks, and rented accommodation in Mumbai’s Coloba area remain unsubstantiated.

FBI team in fracas

A Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) team, which flew in from the U.S., was briefly detained at the Chattrapati Shivaji International Airport here, after Customs officials refused to allow forensics equipment on board their aircraft on Indian soil.

India had granted permission to the FBI to examine the sites involved in the fidayeen attack, since U.S. nationals were also targeted.

Kept in the dark

However, government sources said, the team arrived here without providing prior lists of personnel and the specialised forensic equipment they were carrying.

“Since Customs officials in Mumbai had no idea what the FBI team was carrying,” a New Delhi-based Ministry of Home Affairs official in New Delhi said, “they naturally asked for an explanation”.

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