Is India tearing itself apart?

[su-47]

No its not a failed nation .. but its a failed society .
USSR was one , so was East Germany .

Nations shall not grow at the cost of its social development

i dont think china is a failed society. they may have been a failed society back in the 1960s, but now they are socially evolving just as well as the rest of the world.

just look at the social changes between 1960 and 2008 in china. its remarkable. their social structure has evolved to cope with the modern social system.

china maybe a communist country in name and classification, but their style of operations is clearly that of a free market nation. Most chinese are very happy with current situation in china, and about china's future.

East Germany and USSR on the other hand, imposed communism on their people. the average person in east germany or USSr wasnt happy.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

'India failed state' and 'India tearing itself apart' threads merged

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Ok, using your same key + a few of my own:

i) SA - B = I + P

ii) SA - I = B - Pr

iii) SA + C = Pr

iv) (I - AB) + (B - MBI) = S(I + B) = Pr + P

This is why India will never get anywhere. You turn a simply equation into the bloody Law of Relativity. You guys never keep thinks simple and amusing. Hopeless!

I do not hate India just looking out for the interests of my country and India is clearly the problem in South Asia. It is the only country that has problems with all its neighbours.

 

[Vinod2070]

You are deluding yourself if you think you are looking after the interests of your country.

People like you are incapable of looking beyond your nose.

Even a fool can tell that Bangladesh was created due to the sacrifices this country made, we took 10 million of your refugees when you were being raped and murdered as a race, liberated you and now have 20 million-50 millions of your illegal infiltrators.

You have no one to turn to. Being on good terms with India is Bangladesh' only salvation. You are number 1 in corruption in the world (and MBI Munhsi with his hand in the cookie jar contributes in no mean way in that), number 12 in the list of failed states and the least developed country of South Asia. You need help and sympathy of everyone not false bravado. Its not even funny when you act that. Its FOOLISH.

Anyway with the global warming and the rising sea levels, one doesn't know what your map will look like in a few decades. I just hope that we give Bangladeshis a safe passage to Western Pakistan in that eventuality. Though I would personally make sure you are stranded back.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I see that you can win prizes and acclaim for writing about India's failures and social divisions. The White Tiger by Aravind Adiga won the Booker-Man prize for 2008. This is the blurb on the book -

Review
"'In the grand illusions of a 'rising' India, Aravind Adiga has found a subject Gogol might have envied. With remorselessly and delightfully mordant wit The White Tiger anatomizes the fantastic cravings of the rich; it evokes, too, with starting accuracy and tenderness, the no less desperate struggles of the deprived.' Pankaj Mishra"

What makes an entrepreneur in today's India? Bribes and murder, says this fiercely satirical first novel. Balram Halwai is a thriving young entrepreneur in Bangalore, India's high-tech capital. China's Premier is set to visit, and the novel's frame is a series of Balram's letters to the Premier, in which he tells his life story. Balram sees India as two countries: the Light and the Darkness. Like the huddled masses, he was born in the Darkness, in a village where his father, a rickshaw puller, died of tuberculosis. But Balram is smart, as a school inspector notices, and he is given the moniker White Tiger. Soon after, he's pulled out of school to work in a tea shop, then manages to get hired as a driver by the Stork, one of the village's powerful landlords. Balram is on his way, to Delhi in fact, where the Stork's son, Mr. Ashok, lives with his Westernized wife, Pinky Madam. Ashok is a gentleman, a decent employer, though Balram will eventually cut his throat (an early revelation). His business (coal trading) involves bribing government officials with huge sums of money, the sight of which proves irresistible to Balram and seals Ashok's fate. Adiga, who was born in India in 1974, writes forcefully about a corrupt culture; unfortunately, his commentary on all things Indian comes at the expense of narrative suspense and character development. Thus he writes persuasively about the so-called Rooster Coop, which traps family-oriented Indians into submissiveness, but fails to describe the stages by which Balram evolves from solicitous servant into cold-blooded killer. Adiga's pacing is off too, as Balram too quickly reinvents himself in Bangalore, where every cop can be bought. An undisciplined debut, but one with plenty of vitality. (Kirkus Reviews) --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Andrew Holgate, Sunday Times
`Unlike almost any other Indian novel you might have read in recent years, this page-turner offers a completely bald, angry, unadorned portrait of the county as seen from the bottom of the heap; there's not a sniff of saffron or a swirl of sari anywhere... The Indian tourist board won't be pleased, but you'll read it in a trice and find yourself gripped.' --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Amazon.co.uk: The White Tiger: Aravind Adiga: Books

 

[Logic note]

I see that you can win prizes and acclaim for writing about India's failures and social divisions. The White Tiger by Aravind Adiga won the Booker-Man prize for 2008. This is the blurb on the book -

Review
"'In the grand illusions of a 'rising' India, Aravind Adiga has found a subject Gogol might have envied. With remorselessly and delightfully mordant wit The White Tiger anatomizes the fantastic cravings of the rich; it evokes, too, with starting accuracy and tenderness, the no less desperate struggles of the deprived.' Pankaj Mishra"

What makes an entrepreneur in today's India? Bribes and murder, says this fiercely satirical first novel. Balram Halwai is a thriving young entrepreneur in Bangalore, India's high-tech capital. China's Premier is set to visit, and the novel's frame is a series of Balram's letters to the Premier, in which he tells his life story. Balram sees India as two countries: the Light and the Darkness. Like the huddled masses, he was born in the Darkness, in a village where his father, a rickshaw puller, died of tuberculosis. But Balram is smart, as a school inspector notices, and he is given the moniker White Tiger. Soon after, he's pulled out of school to work in a tea shop, then manages to get hired as a driver by the Stork, one of the village's powerful landlords. Balram is on his way, to Delhi in fact, where the Stork's son, Mr. Ashok, lives with his Westernized wife, Pinky Madam. Ashok is a gentleman, a decent employer, though Balram will eventually cut his throat (an early revelation). His business (coal trading) involves bribing government officials with huge sums of money, the sight of which proves irresistible to Balram and seals Ashok's fate. Adiga, who was born in India in 1974, writes forcefully about a corrupt culture; unfortunately, his commentary on all things Indian comes at the expense of narrative suspense and character development. Thus he writes persuasively about the so-called Rooster Coop, which traps family-oriented Indians into submissiveness, but fails to describe the stages by which Balram evolves from solicitous servant into cold-blooded killer. Adiga's pacing is off too, as Balram too quickly reinvents himself in Bangalore, where every cop can be bought. An undisciplined debut, but one with plenty of vitality. (Kirkus Reviews) --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Andrew Holgate, Sunday Times
`Unlike almost any other Indian novel you might have read in recent years, this page-turner offers a completely bald, angry, unadorned portrait of the county as seen from the bottom of the heap; there's not a sniff of saffron or a swirl of sari anywhere... The Indian tourist board won't be pleased, but you'll read it in a trice and find yourself gripped.' --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Amazon.co.uk: The White Tiger: Aravind Adiga: Books

Munshi Ji
Lol , u really live in world of fiction ..
what shall I call you, Alice in Thunderland ?
hahaha

 

[Vinod2070]

khanz, there are plenty of forum threads devoted to Pakitan's problems. if you don't have anything constructive to add, just keep mum.

Bhaarat is going down, and it will shatter and break into pieces, mark my words. Not today, not tomorrow but in the forseeable future.

In the end, this break up would be a good thing, which each state being able to wrestle with its own problems and find solutions at their level.

Bhaarat was never meant to be a single country, and this federation which has been imposed by foreigners is doomed to fail.

You cannot run away from your history, this country can never be united.

Ashoka of the Mauryans tried, and managed only to keep the highways clear for trade, he couldn't rule the countryside. He was so exasperated with the rebelling nature of the Bhaarat population that he foresook his conquests, appalled at the bloodshed that he had to carry out with such disappointing results, and subsequently converted to Buddhism.

The Mughal's tried and failed, creating a vicious cycle of debt and taxation, to feed the ever growing numbers of taluqdars and zemindars. A self prepetuating elite of Nawabs, maharajas, maha ranas, amirs who bled the country dry. This had to be done to appease them due to the rebellious nature of the people and the vast distances from the center, but ended up weakening their rule.

The British tried and failed miserably, running back with the tails in their legs, leaving a population that was destitute, and prone to massacring each other.

Even the Maha Bhaarat of yore only existed in a small part of the doab region (between the holy rivers of ganga and jamuna). There was never a big, great old country called Bhaarat, as the affix of Maha suggests.

So please give up this fool's gold of an idea of a great ancient nation. The differences in culture, clothes, food, language, customs, gods, traditions castes, are too vast and are actually an explosive cocktail if mixed. Handle with care, some might advise.

One must look only at the state of maharashtra and the xenophobia recently expressed their by raj thakeray and his navnirman sena. Bollywood stalwarts such as Amitabh and Jaya Bachhan are reduced to grovelling and apologising for daring to speak Hindi at a hindi film muhurat, in Bombay, Maharasthr.

The experiment of a united Bhaarat, whenever tried, has failed miserably.

The Nehruvian/Gandhian/Mountbattenian experiment is doomed to fail too.

Dig Vijaya

Is it any wonder that a Pakistani would like to think so?

People like you would clutch at every straw (however tiny) to convince yourself that India will fall apart, and you keep on wondering why it has not already done so.

Didn't they tell you that India had a zillion separatist movements, that millions didn't have toilets, that India just needs a little help from Pakistan to implode itself.

Well you tried your best for decades, and FAILED. Your own society and country are on the verge of collapse. You also indulged in the biggest genocide after the world war and an orgy of rape and murder to subdue the "Hinduized" East Pakistanis. And failed again in forcing them to subdue, again with the help of this failing nation.

You tried to wrest Kashmir, became a breeding ground for terror all over the world, destroyed your own social fabric and failed again to achieve an iota of the land. And now many Pakistanis are coming to realize that it was a futile dream all along.

Just look at the map Bharat Varsha during the Mahabharata days here.

Hardly the Doab region!

See, you guys converted and felt that the Pre-Islamic history was all Jahiliya. Thats something that you share in common with other converts. Same happened in Persia and Egypt and Afghanistan and countless other places where ancient civilizations were lost to the invasions and conversions. Where ancient libraries were destroyed on the twisted logic that they either are contradicting the Quran or agree with it and have no reason to exist in either case.

India has a glorious history and a glorious future. The middle ages of the loot and plunder by barbarians is a blot on our history and we are determined to remove the blot. By regaining the glories of the past.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Munshi Ji
Lol , u really live in world of fiction ..
what shall I call you, Alice in Thunderland ?
hahaha

You are clearly an uncultured, vulgar illiterate ......

If this is the intellectual standard of Indians on this forum than it clearly shows their backwardness as a nation. The writer is an Indian writing about India but you still find an excuse to poke fun. India does seem to hate its writers and intellectuals just see their opinions on Arundhati Roy. Not surprisingly a few of India's Nobel prize winners were born in what is now Bangladesh.

 

[p2prada]

This is why India will never get anywhere. You turn a simply equation into the bloody Law of Relativity. You guys never keep thinks simple and amusing. Hopeless!

Why thank you!!! Yes we are very good at mathematics. We are sorry if we are not understood, sometimes, by simple minded folk. But we try our best to be understood. Next time we will use kindergarten mathematics. 3 in your mind, 2 in your hand.....

I do not hate India just looking out for the interests of my country and India is clearly the problem in South Asia. It is the only country that has problems with all its neighbours.

Beg your pardon!!!! How many neighbours does Bangladesh have.

US has problems with mexico and had problems earlier with canada. Not to mention big problems with Russia.

Germany and France had problems with their borders.

China has problems with Kazakhastan Vietnam and Russia. China has problems with Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. Not to mention India too.

India has problems with only Pak and Bangladesh. Nepal and Srilanka have internal strife, it is not our problem even though we are involved in it. Bhutan has no problems at all. Myanmar actually has healthy relations with india. As for maldives, all maldives citizens will become citizens of india the day their country goes under water.

Every country has some or the other problem. It is just that pessimistic people find fault in the country they hate the most. They dont even want to have the notion of fixing such problems.

The best interests for your country is in good relations with India and not the other way round. Bangladesh suffered a lot after independence(1947). One reason is JUTE. A lot of Jute industries were in BD(east pak) while Jute was grown in West Bengal. Industries can be built but where will u find land to grow Jute. Most of your Jute industries were shut down.

Indian social problems can be remedied. We have the money to do it too, albeit slowly. India also has a structured plan to eradicate poverty completely in a decade. BD has no such plans, no funds or even the will to reduce the social problems plaguing the country.

 

[p2prada]

I see that you can win prizes and acclaim for writing about India's failures and social divisions. The White Tiger by Aravind Adiga won the Booker-Man prize for 2008. This is the blurb on the book -

Review
"'In the grand illusions of a 'rising' India, Aravind Adiga has found a subject Gogol might have envied. With remorselessly and delightfully mordant wit The White Tiger anatomizes the fantastic cravings of the rich; it evokes, too, with starting accuracy and tenderness, the no less desperate struggles of the deprived.' Pankaj Mishra"

What makes an entrepreneur in today's India? Bribes and murder, says this fiercely satirical first novel. Balram Halwai is a thriving young entrepreneur in Bangalore, India's high-tech capital. China's Premier is set to visit, and the novel's frame is a series of Balram's letters to the Premier, in which he tells his life story. Balram sees India as two countries: the Light and the Darkness. Like the huddled masses, he was born in the Darkness, in a village where his father, a rickshaw puller, died of tuberculosis. But Balram is smart, as a school inspector notices, and he is given the moniker White Tiger. Soon after, he's pulled out of school to work in a tea shop, then manages to get hired as a driver by the Stork, one of the village's powerful landlords. Balram is on his way, to Delhi in fact, where the Stork's son, Mr. Ashok, lives with his Westernized wife, Pinky Madam. Ashok is a gentleman, a decent employer, though Balram will eventually cut his throat (an early revelation). His business (coal trading) involves bribing government officials with huge sums of money, the sight of which proves irresistible to Balram and seals Ashok's fate. Adiga, who was born in India in 1974, writes forcefully about a corrupt culture; unfortunately, his commentary on all things Indian comes at the expense of narrative suspense and character development. Thus he writes persuasively about the so-called Rooster Coop, which traps family-oriented Indians into submissiveness, but fails to describe the stages by which Balram evolves from solicitous servant into cold-blooded killer. Adiga's pacing is off too, as Balram too quickly reinvents himself in Bangalore, where every cop can be bought. An undisciplined debut, but one with plenty of vitality. (Kirkus Reviews) --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Andrew Holgate, Sunday Times
`Unlike almost any other Indian novel you might have read in recent years, this page-turner offers a completely bald, angry, unadorned portrait of the county as seen from the bottom of the heap; there's not a sniff of saffron or a swirl of sari anywhere... The Indian tourist board won't be pleased, but you'll read it in a trice and find yourself gripped.' --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

Amazon.co.uk: The White Tiger: Aravind Adiga: Books

If u have read the book then you will be relate almost everything that happens in india to pakistan and bangladesh too. Corrupt politicians and cops, messed up govt officials. Atleast in india, we are doing something about it.

For example,
Retire lazy, corrupt judges, CJI tells HCs-India-The Times of India

What better news than that. It is a front page news in ToI.

 

[p2prada]

You are clearly an uncultured, vulgar illiterate ......

If this is the intellectual standard of Indians on this forum than it clearly shows their backwardness as a nation. The writer is an Indian writing about India but you still find an excuse to poke fun. India does seem to hate its writers and intellectuals just see their opinions on Arundhati Roy. Not surprisingly a few of India's Nobel prize winners were born in what is now Bangladesh.

It is not about where they were born, it is about how and where they lived their lives.
Musharraff was born in India. But was bought up in Pak.


India does seem to hate its writers and intellectuals just see their opinions on Arundhati Roy.

Your country just kicked out a writer who wrote about Islam, some have even tried to kill her. There is no credibility in your statements.

 

[dr.umer]

Three militants among five killed in Manipur ​

15 Oct 2008

Imphal (PTI): Five persons, including three militants, have been killed in separate attacks in Imphal East and Imphal West districts of Manipur, official sources said on Wednesday.

Sources said police commandos at Imphal East district spotted two persons moving in suspicious manner on Tuesday night at Porompat area near here.

When asked to stop, the two suspected militants of Kangleipak Communist Party-Military Council (KCP-MC) opened fire at the commandos, forcing them to retaliate. The duo were killed on the spot, sources said.

Two pistols, some rounds of ammunition, literatures on the outfit and a two-wheeler were recovered from the spot, they said, adding that another KCP-MC militant was also killed in an encounter with commandos at Langthabal area in Imphal West district last night.

In a separate incident, two persons, including a woman, were shot dead by suspected militants at Urup area in Imphal East district late last night, sources said.

All the bodies have been sent to Regional Institute of Medical Sciences and Hospital here for post mortem, they said.

Over 300 people were killed in militancy-related incidents in trouble-torn Manipur this year.

------------------------------------

What is this manipur issue? Anyone please .

 

[su-47]

This is why India will never get anywhere. You turn a simply equation into the bloody Law of Relativity. You guys never keep thinks simple and amusing. Hopeless!

How does my turning of a simple math equation into 'law of relativity' indicate that india wont go anywhere? it seems you are the one going nowhere, since you associate an indian's math with the progress of the country!

besides the equation is still very simple. i wonder how you would have reacted had i posted the real theories of relativity.

I do not hate India just looking out for the interests of my country and India is clearly the problem in South Asia. It is the only country that has problems with all its neighbours.

still havent answered my question about whether you'd rather if india and bangladesh get along or if india ceases to exist. also, i'm eagerly awaiting your reply on how bangladesh will deal with an indian naval blockade and aerial bombardment.

 

[third eye]

Three militants among five killed in Manipur ​

15 Oct 2008

Imphal (PTI): Five persons, including three militants, have been killed in separate attacks in Imphal East and Imphal West districts of Manipur, official sources said on Wednesday.

Sources said police commandos at Imphal East district spotted two persons moving in suspicious manner on Tuesday night at Porompat area near here.

When asked to stop, the two suspected militants of Kangleipak Communist Party-Military Council (KCP-MC) opened fire at the commandos, forcing them to retaliate. The duo were killed on the spot, sources said.

Two pistols, some rounds of ammunition, literatures on the outfit and a two-wheeler were recovered from the spot, they said, adding that another KCP-MC militant was also killed in an encounter with commandos at Langthabal area in Imphal West district last night.

In a separate incident, two persons, including a woman, were shot dead by suspected militants at Urup area in Imphal East district late last night, sources said.

All the bodies have been sent to Regional Institute of Medical Sciences and Hospital here for post mortem, they said.

Over 300 people were killed in militancy-related incidents in trouble-torn Manipur this year.

------------------------------------

What is this manipur issue? Anyone please .

Much that I'd like to update u, but let Munshi ' get his fill". Dont want to steal his thunder or should I say " let him have a go at it .. or he 1st cut?'.

 

[Black Stone]

Dear Blackstone

Society is like single consciousness within which different ideologies exists .
if one ideology overtakes that social consciousness and individuals are sidlined .. I call it a failed soceity .
Dont forget USSR was one of them most powerful nation .. but it collapsed because its social structure was not able to counter the change and onslaught of other ideologies .
economic growth is just one criteria to understand a soceity .remember economy goes up and down . its the balance between individual and social ideologies which keeps a nation strong . USA in 1930s is a good example .

If you think Ideologies = measurement of a "failed society" then you are mistaken.

I don't know how you measure a "failed society" or according to what standards, but I follow International standards and indicators.

The International Community would not label China as a "failed society" because that would be incorrect. Economical prosperity is a basic way to measure this. China's economy is 3/4 largest in the world and a leader in the worlds developing nations. Their economy has been said as an envy for the developing world with double digit growth for the past decades and no sign of slowing. The global financial turmoil would slow them down a bit, but that applies to everyone anyways.

If you label a country that has a "failed society" then you are talking about widespread instability, protests, citizens cannot feed/support themselves and society not progressing and coming to a standstill.

However, I don't see this happening in China, not to mention that if it was happening, this would be all over the news like bees on honey.

The Olympics and the successfull space walk has boosted the Chinese people with pride and confidence.

If you still think this is a "failed society" then I have nothing to say really.