Is India really one nation ?

[ashwin]

At the moment its balance but what ever covert operations Indian doing in its neighbors required Hugh amount of money.
Time will come when it get out of hands.

With in India movement for independence al ready started against the government of India.
Soon India will find them self in civil war when India almost close to become super power. All thank to CIA.

We do not have separate section for covert operations within GDP distribution. If there are any covert operations as claimed they would be funded from the defence budget itself.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

So you accept that ISI is involved in drug trafficking in India?

Then you guys say that you are not involved with illegal activities within India and at the other you accept it. Please try to keep your statements consistent.

And I beg your pardon ISI belongs to Pakistan not a organization which works for capitalistic gains of US. And by the way US is not poor enough to make money by drug trafficking. If it were so they would have not fired million dollar missiles on 20$ tents.

Dude, I took your statements a jocular & continued it as such! I cannot confirm or deny ISI involvement since I have no knowledge on the subject.

Here is a review for the movie Air America not the best review but drives the point across.)

Air America is one of those movies that could have been great, and now maintains its low-key reputation as a typical Mel Gibson film in the wake of his first two Lethal Weapon hits. Originally conceived as a biting black comedy about the CIA's top-secret smuggling operation in Laos during the Vietnam war, Air America lost most of its political sting when it was transformed into an action comedy for Gibson and costar Robert Downey Jr. The film is entertaining as far as it goes, with a few action sequences that explain where a lot of the budget went. If you're in the mood for some Mel, this one is a little off the beaten path, and still contains a percentage of its original potential. --Jeff Shannon

http://www.serendipity.li/cia/blum1.html

 

[ashwin]

Dude, I took your statements a jocular & continued it as such! I cannot confirm or deny ISI involvement since I have no knowledge on the subject.

Here is a review for the movie Air America not the best review but drives the point across.)

Air America is one of those movies that could have been great, and now maintains its low-key reputation as a typical Mel Gibson film in the wake of his first two Lethal Weapon hits. Originally conceived as a biting black comedy about the CIA's top-secret smuggling operation in Laos during the Vietnam war, Air America lost most of its political sting when it was transformed into an action comedy for Gibson and costar Robert Downey Jr. The film is entertaining as far as it goes, with a few action sequences that explain where a lot of the budget went. If you're in the mood for some Mel, this one is a little off the beaten path, and still contains a percentage of its original potential. --Jeff Shannon

The Real Drug Lords

sorry for being offtopic but
Even i dont have links for saying ISI was involved


Just following your post and u admitted.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

sorry for being offtopic but
Even i dont have links for saying ISI was involved


Just following your post and u admitted.

At best , it says" offend their Pakistani and Afghan allies"
ISI was not the only "entity" involved from Pakistan side.
It does not say that. In any case, I provided a link, un edited!
You do stand corrected about CIA & drugs for sure.
Lastly, lets not play "holier than thou". India's hands are nt exactly clean in more ways than one.
I think we can all move on now!!!!

 

[vandemataram]

Despite your overly verbose and rambling post, I do not.

My point was that he is either an Indian pretending to be South African or is a South African whose ancestors came from India. As such, he is a pro-India poster hiding behind the South African flag. This forum allows each poster to use two flags. Most people use that to indicate their ethnicity/country of birth, and their place of residence/second nationality.

What is your point again? Briefly, if you please.

I asked for a sensible reply, but now I think you arent capable of one ....well I forgot Pakistani schools and colleges teach everything in gists, brief and in short and thereby distorting history as they please...worldwide known fact ,.....

This guy's forefathers can be from Quetta/Peshawar/Rawalpindi..and yes he is a Muslim...if this be the case then how can he be Indian/Pro-Indian?

"As such, he is a pro-India poster hiding behind the South African flag"..how do you know that? He has said he is a South African ...

What now do you think could be the reason that he is pro indian/Indian/hiding behind RSA flag and other stupid, nonsensical and idiotic ...adjective you could use ..justify your case?

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Has anybody answered the question "Is India really one nation?".

SHORT ANSWER: No
LONG ANSWER: Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"India" was the imperialistic by-product of British aggression. Fact is India is really just 6 big nations, or 30 medium nations, or 1,000 small tribes/kingdoms. I don't really care about their internal matters. What I do care about is when they start invading neighboring countries to annex the land and ethnic cleanse the indigenous population. If you wish to stay united as one unit or revert to being hundreds of little serfdoms is up to you. But please, please don't invade us.

 

[Developereo]

I forgot Pakistani schools and colleges teach everything in gists, brief and in short and thereby distorting history as they please...worldwide known fact ,.....

I didn't realize I was dealing with a worldwide authority. My bad.

This guy's forefathers can be from Quetta/Peshawar/Rawalpindi..and yes he is a Muslim...if this be the case then how can he be Indian/Pro-Indian?

"As such, he is a pro-India poster hiding behind the South African flag"..how do you know that? He has said he is a South African ...

What now do you think could be the reason that he is pro indian/Indian/hiding behind RSA flag and other stupid, nonsensical and idiotic ...adjective you could use ..justify your case?

I haven't yet encountered a Pakistani, American or Chinese poster who hid behind another country's flag. I have run into any number of Indian posters who hide their Indian roots and pretend to be American, Chinese, Sri Lankan, South African, you name it...

Sooner or later, most of them slip up and let by that they are Indian.
Sometimes you can tell from their consistent anti-Pakistan, pro-India bias and parroting of standard Indian propaganda.

Strangely enough, it is only Indians who try to deceive in this manner on this forum.

 

[Ruag]

"Is India really one nation?"

Over the past 3-4 years, India's arch-enemies have started proposing the idea that Indians lack unity and therefore, the country can be easily divided. They know that a resurgent India will be hard to compete with, be politically or economically, and therefore "dismembering" it would be an easy way out.

India's enemies think that the Republic of India is actually a legacy of the British Empire and the people who live in this country are so diverse that there are very few factors which binds them together.

Is India really one nation? Fact remains, only a person whose only source of information is propaganda websites would ask such a question. So.. what really unites India?

There are plenty of factors which unite India but I don't have the time to list all of them. However, I will list some important ones -

1) Have a look at the result of 2009 general elections by state -
Results of the 2009 Indian general election by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In all most every Indian state, Indian nationalist parties such as Congress and BJP got a major chunk of the votes. In fact, regional parties such SP, RJD and Left Front, suffered a huge decline.

So.. India is blessed with political parties which have a pan-India appeal. In other words, most Indians have the same opinion regarding who should run the Union Government. But India's enemies still think otherwise.

2) Indians cherish their freedom, be freedom of expression or religion. This freedom lays the foundation for the tolerance widespread across Indian society. Yes, we had Gujarat riots but we have also had 3 Muslim presidents, one of which continues to inspire millions of Indians. Yes we had Babri Masjid demolition, but we also have a ridiculously popular Hindi movie industry which continues to be dominated by Muslims. Yes we had anti-Sikh riots in Delhi, but this country also made a Sikh the only second person to return to Prime Ministership after completing a full five-year term. Yes we had anti-Christian riots in Orissa, but our entire nation went into deep mourning when a Christian Chief Minister was tragically killed in a helicopter crash.

These are just a few examples, and I can point out several more factors. But our enemies get all excited when they hear about insurgent activities like Naxalities in India. fact remains, these insurgent groups are only capable of launching occasional attacks against unarmed civilians and poorly armed police personnel - they can never threaten the integrity of India and the history stands proof. Our enemies also get confused when those very same Naxalities show solidarity with Mumbai attack victims -

Maoists give gun salute to Mumbai victims - India - NEWS - The Times of India

But our enemies like to live in their dreamworld, far away from reality. So.. continue living in this world while Indians collectively march forward towards progress.

 

[pakomar]

We do not have separate section for covert operations within GDP distribution. If there are any covert operations as claimed they would be funded from the defence budget itself.

and that defence will increase .......
time will tell

 

[praveen]

same was in case of Soviet Union.

USSR spent 33% of its GDP in defence not 3%

 

[EjazR]

With all the articles about "India might breakup", it was interesting to see this article on an Pakistani nationalist website.

Pakistan Observer - Newspaper online edition - Article

During the 1960s, it was not only the writer Vidia Naipaul who considered India to be an “area of darkness”. Several scholars made a living out of forecasting the imminent disintegration of a country that had an immense multiplicity of cultures, faiths and ethnicities. However, India survived as a united nation, and once economic reform got introduced in 1992, began slowly to thrive. This despite being ruled by a political class that saw personal enrichment as the only objective worth expending effort on, and a bureaucracy both corrupt and incompetent. Why did this miracle take place? Interestingly, it was because of decisions that were forced upon a reluctant executive.

The first such decision was to succumb to the pressure of linguistic lobbies and break up Indian states into smaller entities. Prime Minister Nehru was reluctant for years to accept the logic of linguistic states, hoping that different groups could function harmoniously in one big state. Thus, for years he ignored demands from the Telugu-speaking population of the state for a separate entity. Finally, the riots that broke out after the death by fasting of the Telugu leader Potti Sriramulu forced his hand, and Andhra Pradesh (a majority Telugu-speaking area) was carved out of Madras, which later got renamed as Tamil Nadu (Home of the Tamils). Soon afterwards in 1960, the Gujarati-speaking parts of Bombay State separated from the Marathi-majority region, and became Gujarat State. The Marathi speakers renamed their new state “Maharashtra” Afterwards, even states with a common language got divided, mainly because of administrative convenience. Thus, Chhatisgarh got separated from Madhya Pradesh, as did Uttarakhand from Uttar Pradesh and Jharkhand from Bihar, even though all six were Hindi-speaking. This division dampened linguistic resentments, and helped to contain such tensions to levels not harmful to the unity of India. Had Nehru been resolute in his opposition to linguistic states, tensions would have continued to fester, and thereby grow Apart from linguistic states, another factor that helped retain unity was the English language. Because this is a foreign language, no group felt disadvantaged at its continuance. Today, across India, a middle class has arisen that almost entirely is comfortable in the use of English. A Bengali professional can shift to Gujarat or Tamil Nadu and immediately find people who also speak English, who read the same (admittedly of spotty quality) magazines and watch the same movies. The leavening of “middle class culture” over the other identities of the country has helped to create a unity that was earlier absent in a country with a multiplicity of identities. Had Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri gone ahead with his move to banish English from India in 1964, the resultant tensions would have proved dangerous. But because the single state of Tamil Nadu resisted the abolition of English, the Government of India shelved the proposal to replace that language with Hindi. Today, it is because of their proficiency in English that so many millions of Indians are benefiting from the boom in computer software.

Sadly, several politicians oppose English. Examples are Laloo Yadav of Bihar and Mulayam Singh Yadav of Uttar Pradesh, both of whom have educated their own children in the English language while seeking to deny knowledge of that language to pupils in government schools. Another anti-English state was Communist-controlled Bengal. However, public demand for educating young children in English - or at least ensuring that they know the language - has forced these leaders to dilute their opposition to English. At current trends, more than 500 million Indians will speak some variant of that language within the next fifteen years, thus getting enabled to participate in a globalised world. It is mainly in places where the international link language is not taught that local economies are still at subsistence level Apart from the English language, another factor that favours Indian unity is commerce. The need to access a larger market and enjoy a wider variation in the production base ensures that unitary tendencies are favoured by the business class, a group that is substantial in both numbers as well as influence. Most companies are based all over the country, and indeed, mamy are now setting up branches abroad. Even when a company is controlled by a family, the professionals working in it are almost always from different states, and these days, from different countries.

This is not to say that there are no longer any challenges to Indian unity. There are, and Kashmir is an example. Jawaharlal Nehru was an admirer of the Soviet model, and he adopted that model in Kashmir. This is separate development. The Kashmiri has since 1952 been segregated from the rest of the country, and given special laws and privileges, that all contribute to a feeling of alienation from the rest of India. Only the withdrawal of US activism over Kashmir following 9/11 and the change in attitude towards armed struggle after that event have taken the international pressure off India, while internally, the spreading of economic opportunity within the community has diluted much of the zeal for separation. Today, many Kashmiris want a separate state, but few are any longer willing to fight for it. Indeed, many more are ready to take advantage of the educational and business opportunities throughout India, and link with the rest of the country rather than seek to break away. However, decades of Kashmir-specific social and other policies have taken their toll, and there is no doubt that even today, several Kashmiris resent being part of India, a lot of them on grounds of religion rather than because of any other factor. For Indian policymakers, the “Muslims are a separate nation” argument was concluded with the formation of Pakistan on August 14,1947,and they are reluctant to once again divide on the basis of faith, fearing the impact of this in the hundreds of thousands of locations in the rest of India where Muslims and Hindus live and work together. Millions died during Partition, a tragedy that they are keen to avoid happening again. Interestingly, China too is following Kashmir’s “separate development” model in Xinjiang, where the Uygur are given educational and other opportunities different from those made available to the Han. Of course, unlike Kashmir, where other Indians are forbidden to relocate to, in Xinjiang, any Han can freely relocate. However, a bifurcation in policy based on ethnicity has meant that the PRC is beginning to face in Xinjiang the same problems that India has been contending with in Kashmir for decades. In the latter case, however, the economic rise of India has seen a migration of Kashmiris to different parts of the country, where several have set down roots, so that they have begun to have a vested interest in a united India. In Xinjiang too, individual prosperity has ensured that many Uygur become loyal to the PRC rather than to a separate State, as demanded by Rebiya Kadeer.

The north-east is another region where there is some alienation from the rest of India.Again,state policy is to blame. Nehru accepted the view of his friend Verrier Elwin that the people of the north-east “should be kept in their pristine state”. Thus, he banned large-scale development in the area, even of such basic facilities as roads. Even today, the north-east is one of the most neglected parts of the country, although from here too, people have migrated to other parts of the country once the economy began to modernize. For example, in Gurgaon near Delhi, several computer software professionals are from the northeast, where the popularity of English has spurred familiarity with Information Technology.

Will a wave of Balkanisation hit India, and the country separate into a Bengali, a Tamil and other parts? So long as the economy is humming along at a speed that gives jobs to millions each year, and so long as a single linguistic or religious group does not impose its dominance over the rest, this is unlikely to happen. China is not the only big country in Asia where stability depends on continued economic progress

 

[ashwin]

and that defence will increase .......
time will tell

And what is that time exactly. I dont think if we are running any covert operations we need to increase our spendings. we can increase the net amount keeping the percentage share consistent and let the GDP grow. So we will have more money to invest. i think senior officials would be quite satisfied with the state of their enemies.

 

[Nemesis]

China in its own interest and the progress of Asia, should join forces with different nationalities within India like the Assamese, Bengalese,

I stopped reading when he used Bengalese instead of Bengali. Just shows how "well informed" the writer is.

"India" was the imperialistic by-product of British aggression.

Wrong, the word India was used before the British even existed as a nation.

Fact is India is really just 6 big nations, or 30 medium nations, or 1,000 small tribes/kingdoms.

Yes, we are a thousand nations. Our identity is not monolithic but we all call ourselves Indian.

I don't really care about their internal matters.

You're countless posts on India's "internal matters" proves you wrong.

What I do care about is when they start invading neighboring countries to annex the land

You mean when China invaded India in 62? Or perhaps the Chinese invasion of Tibet? Or maybe even the Chinese war with Vietnam?

The only country in the habit of going to war to grab land is China. It's not a new historical phenomenon, imperialistic Europe did the same thing in the 18th century.

and ethnic cleanse the indigenous population.

Ethnic cleansing? You mean to make a majority population into a minority through military oppression? Tell me, what's the % of Han Chinese in Tibet currently? Perhaps then we can discuss ethnic cleansing.

If you wish to stay united as one unit

There is no question of if.

or revert to being hundreds of little serfdoms is up to you.

Serfdom? Isnt China the country where peasants need permission of the government to go live in your "dream" cities of Shanghai? Ironic how a government founded on the principle of freeing the proletariat somehow manages to do the same. The victim-oppressor cycle carries on its proud tradition in China.

I haven't yet encountered a Pakistani, American or Chinese poster who hid behind another country's flag.

Perhaps you should expand your horizons.

I have run into any number of Indian posters who hide their Indian roots and pretend to be American, Chinese, Sri Lankan, South African, you name it...

Sooner or later, most of them slip up and let by that they are Indian.

Generalization of an entire people? I really think you need to expand your horizons.

Sometimes you can tell from their consistent anti-Pakistan, pro-India bias and parroting of standard Indian propaganda.

This might come as a shock to you, but you will find that a majority of the people have a far favourable opinion of India than Pakistan.

 

[praveen]

Will a wave of Balkanisation hit India, and the country separate into a Bengali, a Tamil and other parts? So long as the economy is humming along at a speed that gives jobs to millions each year, and so long as a single linguistic or religious group does not impose its dominance over the rest, this is unlikely to happen. China is not the only big country in Asia where stability depends on continued economic progress

We can vote out a government .People of one party states cannot.Economic growth is not a compulsion for us

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

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