Is India fuelling militancy in Fata?

[BATMAN]

Is India fuelling militancy in Fata?
The POST, Sun, Aug,03, 2008.

A report recently published in a leading national daily (The Nation) on 27th July unambiguously stated that after receiving intelligence reports indicating links between RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) and militant organizations nation’s top security brass has ordered a thorough probe into the involvement of India in the growing militancy in Waziristan and other tribal areas.

Not only the intelligence reports show the involvement of India’s main spy agency RAW in fomenting anti-Pakistan feelings there but also the information extracted from the arrested militants during Hangu operation also supported the contention. While the source stressed that the reports were credible enough to be accepted, it was decided to have a joint probe involving country’s main security agencies in order to ascertain the nature and cooperation between the militants and Indian spy agency.

While RAW is commonly known to dabble into nefarious acts inside Pakistan, yet it not appropriate to put the blame on RAW unless a definite and convincing proof is provided by the above mentioned probe. To put the blame just like that is no different than what the Indian have been doing so regularly and so consistently after any adverse event that had taken place inside India only to realize that those were undertaken by the Indians or India based groups.

Admittedly there exist sufficient circumstantial evidences to point a finger at the Indian agency and past, both recent and distant, is studded with innumerable instances in which RAW was known to be involved. Compared to India, Pakistan has never indulged in the blame game unless it has some evidence where as Indian practice has been to put the blame first and then try to either collect the evidence or manufacture it.

It needs to be mentioned here that lately even the Afghan government is demonstrating the techniques it learnt from India. Following the recent Kabul bomb blast in the Indian embassy, the Afghan officials including the President whose writ is known to be confined to Kabul, in their indecent haste did not hesitate to quickly pin the blame on Pakistan based agency without advancing any evidence.

Many eminent non Pakistani scholars who are familiar with the complex nature of the area have written about Taliban stressed that not only the US intelligence community is well aware about this problem which is exacerbated by Taliban alliance with Al Qaeda moving into Pakistani territories but also because of covert support by the Indian government and its intelligence services-principally RAW for the Jihadist movement.
A cursory review of India-Pakistan relations over the last sixty years clearly point towards the fact that both countries’ intelligence agencies have been exploiting situations in one form or the other with one major difference between them. The Indian agencies would immediately point the finger at Pakistan almost immediately after the incident whereas the Pakistanis would first search for some piece of evidence and then build the case against India. Being a large country and having a large network of intelligence agencies with close connections with agencies Israeli Mossad, the Indian agencies also operate from Afghanistan with the active support of the incumbent Afghan government.

It is not too far fetched to assume that the American intelligence agencies are well aware of RAW’s activities in the region especially in Afghanistan, yet they have opted to avoid criticizing their activities against Pakistan. Again no Pakistani would be agitated as they are well familiar about India’s over projection of the notion of cross border terrorism with regard to Kashmir situation and the American ready acceptance of Indian interpretation of the Kashmir situation.

Pakistan appears to be easily available punching bag which not only the Indians and Afghans but even the Americans do not hesitate to throw punches. However compared to the Indians and Afghans, the Americans appear to be relatively sophisticated in their approach. The Afghans and Indians throw punches at will.

The American problem is that they do not want to annoy India and at the same time would like to have Pakistan on their right side. Not only they have been building India at the cost of even destroying NPT regime but also feel convinced that a strong India would be able to counter the increasing Chinese influence in Asia. Admittedly India is advancing at a much rapid pace in terms of development but to play the role of a regional influential it may have to demonstrate qualities deemed necessary for a great power’s role.

A further complicating factor is the American commitment to Afghanistan. Judged by any yardstick the Americans along with NATO forces have not yet been able to extend incumbent Afghan regime’s writ beyond a limited area. The foreign forces have certain met limited success. Undoubtedly it appears that foreign forces may have to stay for a much longer time than what they initially anticipated.

Unable to deliver the augured outcome, one finds that the notion of do more is frequently aired. Most objective analyses invariably concluded that the notion of do more is part of the diversionary tactics. Inability to keep pace with anticipated outcomes often compels them to employ such tactics to buy time.

However this does not mean that both the Taliban and Al Qaeda have not been illegally using parts of Tribal areas. In fact the illegal use of Pakistani Tribal territory has caused many undesired problems for Pakistan. The Pakistani government is making efforts to stamp out the militancy and to plug the illegal cross border movements in the Pak-Afghan border region.

In this connection, the Americans should not only provide necessary help to government of Pakistan and strengthen its hands to deal with the problem effectively but should also effective prevent the Indians and the Afghans support to the militants in the tribal areas.

 

[muse]

Dated Sun, Aug,03, 2008

What's that I smell in these desperate posts ? Fear, Fear--Desperation, the fear, The trembling, The Sickness on to Death -- Watch out arbi and talib, it's retribution time

 

[waraich66]

Dated Sun, Aug,03, 2008

What's that I smell in these desperate posts ? Fear, Fear--Desperation, the fear, The trembling, The Sickness on to Death -- Watch out arbi and talib, it's retribution time

I never seen any clip of Afghan Talab weeping or shivering due to fear of death but US marines in Afghanistan

 

[BATMAN]

One key word which is very important in my view is

anti-Pakistan feelings

Now uncounted civilian deaths by drones....in Tribal belt are definately going to make it otugh for Pak securtiy forces to carry out their operations against foreign sponsored elements.
I'm not saying that drones have not been helpful at all but i think it raise more militants than it kills.
Specially when civilian vicitms know that it was Americans!
The point is objective of Indian, TTP and US matches when it comes to instigate people of Pakistan against its military.
It is seems to be an non recorded accord among the triparties.

Only considering events and statements on record...
I hope there is no doubt in the mind of all world incl. Pakistan that US leadership specially its embassy in Pakistan treats Pakistan army as an enemy.
hence it suggest, enemy of enemey makes friends kind of alliance was formed between indinas and US from begining of Afghan alliance. TTP is a baby hatched and groomed by this alliance in following years.

Not to mention engineered change of regime in Pakistan, was part and parcel of all the game.
Since the change of regime the tone of indians and US in media has become very insulting and regular.
This time in begining even Pak govt. was very active in threating the US from Pakistanis and i rememeber the statement from interior minister to punish army officers for conspiring against india!
Once, ISI was made to report Rehman Malik but that decsion was short lived.
We also remember when Pak. govt. said we don't have resources to shoot down drones than it was rebuted by airforce cheif.
I think now is time....we need to review the history of events and statements.
to understand the friends and foes of Pakistan.

 

[muse]

But we see you and Batman so desperate that you even put up news from last month in a effort to confuse people, but we see through your desperation, your fear of what we will do to your "friends" for which you are desperate and fearful - did not see talib weebing? then you are blind as well -- when we are done with them, we will go after their enablers.

 

[BATMAN]

I never seen any clip of Afghan Talab weeping or shivering due to fear of death but US marines in Afghanistan

I have even read/heard news that when police presented some terrorist in Pakistani courts they were smiling at the face of judge.

 

[BATMAN]

But we see you and Batman so desperate that you even put up news from last month in a effort to confuse people, but we see through your desperation, your fear of what we will do to your "friends" for which you are desperate and fearful - did not see talib weebing? then you are blind as well -- when we are done with them, we will go after their enablers.

I see you most confused.....
You are free to post following events....
BTW.. what i posted is a research paper from a reputable Pakistan researh institute based on many factual events. link is there for any one to verify.
Or do we have limits to read only your religously biased posts?
I know the links about iran hurts but....since... you asked for it!

 

[ek_indian]

A report recently published in a leading national daily (The Nation) on 27th July unambiguously stated that after receiving intelligence reports indicating links between RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) and militant organizations nation’s top security brass has ordered a thorough probe into the involvement of India in the growing militancy in Waziristan and other tribal areas.

Recently!!...the news article is from 2008. And unconfirmed reports without proofs are called "rumours"...

Not only the intelligence reports show the involvement of India’s main spy agency RAW in fomenting anti-Pakistan feelings there but also the information extracted from the arrested militants during Hangu operation also supported the contention. While the source stressed that the reports were credible enough to be accepted, it was decided to have a joint probe involving country’s main security agencies in order to ascertain the nature and cooperation between the militants and Indian spy agency.

Looks like nothing is known but yes....all they know that RAW is behind this...poor arguement.

While RAW is commonly known to dabble into nefarious acts inside Pakistan, yet it not appropriate to put the blame on RAW unless a definite and convincing proof is provided by the above mentioned probe.

If no one one blaming RAW then what this article is for.

To put the blame just like that is no different than what the Indian have been doing so regularly and so consistently after any adverse event that had taken place inside India only to realize that those were undertaken by the Indians or India based groups.

Please let us know which attack is mentioned here which later proved originated in India itself. As far as accusation is concerned, it is both ways. Anything happens in Pakistan, is blamed on India instantly be it Mariott hotel bombing or Lahore attacks.

Admittedly there exist sufficient circumstantial evidences to point a finger at the Indian agency and past, both recent and distant, is studded with innumerable instances in which RAW was known to be involved. Compared to India, Pakistan has never indulged in the blame game unless it has some evidence where as Indian practice has been to put the blame first and then try to either collect the evidence or manufacture it.

Oh well there are enough circumstancial evidences we have never seen. I never knew that our manufacturing industry is expert enough.

It needs to be mentioned here that lately even the Afghan government is demonstrating the techniques it learnt from India. Following the recent Kabul bomb blast in the Indian embassy, the Afghan officials including the President whose writ is known to be confined to Kabul, in their indecent haste did not hesitate to quickly pin the blame on Pakistan based agency without advancing any evidence.

So Afgans are also learning from us. Here is something related to Kabul bombings:

U.S. Officials: Pakistani Agents Helped Plan Kabul Bombing - washingtonpost.com

Pakistani spies helped Kabul bombers, US says - Asia, World - The Independent

Many eminent non Pakistani scholars who are familiar with the complex nature of the area have written about Taliban stressed that not only the US intelligence community is well aware about this problem which is exacerbated by Taliban alliance with Al Qaeda moving into Pakistani territories but also because of covert support by the Indian government and its intelligence services-principally RAW for the Jihadist movement.

RAW is supporting "jihadi" movement in Pakistan. Mate, this stricle is good for laughter. And everybody including non-Pakistani scholar know but there is no proof from any of them.

A cursory review of India-Pakistan relations over the last sixty years clearly point towards the fact that both countries’ intelligence agencies have been exploiting situations in one form or the other with one major difference between them. The Indian agencies would immediately point the finger at Pakistan almost immediately after the incident whereas the Pakistanis would first search for some piece of evidence and then build the case against India. Being a large country and having a large network of intelligence agencies with close connections with agencies Israeli Mossad, the Indian agencies also operate from Afghanistan with the active support of the incumbent Afghan government.

It is not too far fetched to assume that the American intelligence agencies are well aware of RAW’s activities in the region especially in Afghanistan, yet they have opted to avoid criticizing their activities against Pakistan. Again no Pakistani would be agitated as they are well familiar about India’s over projection of the notion of cross border terrorism with regard to Kashmir situation and the American ready acceptance of Indian interpretation of the Kashmir situation.

More nonsense. And yes Kashmir seems to be center of the universe. And one more thing, no Indian would be agitated even ISI hands are proved.

Pakistan appears to be easily available punching bag which not only the Indians and Afghans but even the Americans do not hesitate to throw punches. However compared to the Indians and Afghans, the Americans appear to be relatively sophisticated in their approach. The Afghans and Indians throw punches at will.

Actually we had an article which says atleast 9 countries are involved in Afganistan. Everything is blamed on India but no proof anywhere.

The American problem is that they do not want to annoy India and at the same time would like to have Pakistan on their right side. Not only they have been building India at the cost of even destroying NPT regime but also feel convinced that a strong India would be able to counter the increasing Chinese influence in Asia. Admittedly India is advancing at a much rapid pace in terms of development but to play the role of a regional influential it may have to demonstrate qualities deemed necessary for a great power’s role.

So someone is telling that US can not annoy India. And yes China is also brought into this mess which is not created by China. India is not bound to NPT as Pakistan is. But it is offtopic. We are having very good relations with almost all countries including China.

A further complicating factor is the American commitment to Afghanistan. Judged by any yardstick the Americans along with NATO forces have not yet been able to extend incumbent Afghan regime’s writ beyond a limited area. The foreign forces have certain met limited success. Undoubtedly it appears that foreign forces may have to stay for a much longer time than what they initially anticipated.

How it is related to Indian involvement in Pakistan? Seems author is confused.

Unable to deliver the augured outcome, one finds that the notion of do more is frequently aired. Most objective analyses invariably concluded that the notion of do more is part of the diversionary tactics. Inability to keep pace with anticipated outcomes often compels them to employ such tactics to buy time.

Again offtopic rant.

wever this does not mean that both the Taliban and Al Qaeda have not been illegally using parts of Tribal areas. In fact the illegal use of Pakistani Tribal territory has caused many undesired problems for Pakistan. The Pakistani government is making efforts to stamp out the militancy and to plug the illegal cross border movements in the Pak-Afghan border region.

Again offtopic. What has India to do with this.

In this connection, the Americans should not only provide necessary help to government of Pakistan and strengthen its hands to deal with the problem effectively but should also effective prevent the Indians and the Afghans support to the militants in the tribal areas.

How can someone prevent something which is not existing. I mean there is no proof yet but few are just crying that India is doing all these evils to Pakistan. Even I am getting confused who actually is supporting militants - India, USA, Afganistan, Pakistan, some other nation or aliens.

 

[BATMAN]

A Sikh Leader: India Is Behind The Fake Taliban, Why Are Pakistan Officials Silent?

The suicide bombers and throat-slitters are not Arab Mujahedeen or Afghan Taliban. This ‘expertise’ has been introduced by the Indians and the Israelis in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The crimes of the Indian-groomed Taliban have nothing to do with the Afghan Taliban fighting inside their own country and the Kashmiri freedom fighters inside their own territory. The question is: Why is the Pakistani government continues to feel ashamed in standing up for Pakistan?

By Dr. Awatar S. Sekhon



Proof of Indian weapons and special-ops agents have been discovered in Swat and Balochistan. The evidence is so damning that US officials had no choice but to oblige Pakistan and directly ask Indian Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and Defense Miniser to tame Indian terror-breeding operations in Afghanistan aimed at Pakistan. Manmohan Singh, confronted by the Pakistani Prime Minister with evidence in Egypt, had no choice but to agree to refer to Indian terrorism in Balochistan in the joint statement.

It was an amazing revelation by a serving Maj. General of Pakistan army in-charge of the Swat operation during an interview with Aaj television news channel.

Maj. Gen. Sajjad Ghani has revealed the following points backed by evidence:



Swat valley was occupied by criminals with full money and logistical support of India.
The entire operation was planned by Indian military officers posted to several locations in Afghanistan
The Indian ‘footprint’ in Swat and the Pakistani tribal belt includes: Indian currency, Indian bullets, Indian small explosives, Indian heavy explosives, and other items that indicate links to Indian army’s command and control setup.
Special hideouts [tunnels, caves, underground passageways] created by Indian expertise and machinery. This technology cannot be available to amateur fighters.
Blood banks and all the supporting products, i.e., fresh frozen plasma, etc., to help the fighters sustain a long term war.


All this evidence helps in reaching the following conclusions:

Sufi Muhammad, Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah are all Indian agents, fully in contact with senior officers from R&AW and Defense Intelligence Agency posted in Afghanistan
All crimes on Pakistani soil, including the destruction of schools of girls and boys and the slaughter of innocent people were done on orders from Indian assets on the ground and inside the nearby Afghan provinces. These were effectively Indian actions of war against Pakistan
This Indian free hand in Afghanistan and inside Pakistan’s Balochistan and NWFP says a lot about the inefficiency of the Pakistani government
All suicide bombings in Pakistan are linked to fake Indian-groomed Taliban in Afghanistan, which was built by recruiting brainwashed young men misled into believing they are fighting a jihad against America. The suicide bombings in Pakistan are Indian acts of war. Make no mistake about it.
Islam and Muslims are defamed by Indians and their allies. Unfortunately, the Pakistani government and media are hands in glove with this demonization of Pakistan. Instead of asking questions they simply repeat what is fed to them like parrots.
Pakistan is losing the support of the mujahedeen who are keeping the Indians at bay in Kashmir and Afghanistan.
This tactic of pitching the fake Taliban with the Pakistani military has resulted in a confrontation between the Pakistani army and the Mujahedeen. The fact is that the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan and Kashmir have nothing to do with the crimes of the Indian-groomed fake Taliban.
The Indian activities in Afghanistan have gone undetected for a long time. But now enough evidence has been collected to indict the Indian government and military for indulging in the worst forms of terror breeding.



Here are some signs of the crimes the Indians are involved in inside U.S.-occupied Afghanistan:

Many psychological-operations experts and experts in Islamic indoctrination and what generally is known as ‘mind-messing professionals’ have been deployed in special training camps. These people introduce themselves as Mujahedeen to new recruits, brainwash them and then use them inside Pakistan.

The slitting of throats is a new tactic introduced by the Indian terrorism trainers to demoralize Pakistan and show the Afghan Taliban in a wrong light. The suicide bombings are not the result of Arab influence here as the British and American media claims. It is also the result of Israeli experts bringing in their expertise in penetrating Islamic groups. How silly it is that Arabs would arrive in this region to kill Pakistanis and spare the Am-Brit occupiers of Afghanistan all these months.

The Mumbai terrorist act appears to be a joint Israeli and Indian event. Both countries have secret close cooperation in the areas of intelligence and countering Muslim groups. The Israeli eagerness to help India against Pakistan is amazing both in Kashmir and Afghanistan is amazing.

It is not clear yet if the lone surviving terrorist, Ajmal Qassab, is indeed Pakistani. India has offered no solid evidence proving this and it is shameful that the Pakistani government is not making this public despite the fact that independent investigators from Interpol verify this fact.

Qassab means butcher in Urdu/Arabic. In Pakistan, hardly anyone retains this surname. If Qassab is not an Indian who played the role of a Pakistani terrorist, then he certainly is someone who has been duped into joining the group that conducted the operation. Indian explanations regarding the bodies of the rest of the terrorists, their DNA samples, their origins, are misleading and confusing at best, which destroys the entire Indian case against Kashmiri freedom fighters inside Pakistan.

Important parts of the Mumbai operation were planned and conducted outside Pakistan. Also, the Indian security failures in Mumbai are suspicious at best. There is more in this case than meets the eye. Pakistan should be under no compulsion to accept the Indian version of events and should advise the same to the international community. Instead, the Pakistani government has chosen complete surrender.

A large number of uncircumcized professionally-trained foreign fighters have been found within the ranks of the so-called ‘Pakistani Taliban’.

All of the above raises serious questions about the silence of the Pakistani government on the disturbing and treacherous Indian behavior:

Why the Pakistan Government is not protesting against Indian invasion into Swat and other cities of Pakistan?

Why Pakistan Government is silent over the Indian attack on the Sri Lankan Cricket team?

Why Pakistan Government is not using Interpol services to get Altaf Hussain and hang him for his numerous murders and acts of terrorism? Why the Pakistani Government is not asking Kabul to hand over the terrorist Brahamdagh Bugti and hang him for killing innocent Pakistanis, and for the crimes of his grandfather the tyrant Akbar Bugti who killed hundreds of poor Pakistani Balochis and displaced thousands of poor Pakistani Balochis?

Why hardcore criminals have been protected under the umbrella of Musharraf’s NRO?

Why Mr. Nawaz Sharif and other Pakistani leaders have sold themselves to the devil, keeping totally silent, deaf and dumb on these issues? Why is power more important to them than anything else?

Why are we helping those forces which are supporting Indian and Israeli terrorism in Pakistan? We know the forces behind the so-called BLA and MQM. The question is: Why is the government supporting these forces?

Why Hamudur Rehman Commission recommendations have not been implemented in letter and spirit?

And why did we not learn lesson from East Pakistan bitter experience?

 

[Developereo]

Even I am getting confused who actually is supporting militants - India, USA, Afganistan, Pakistan, some other nation or aliens.

US wants to install an Indian puppet regime in Kabul to prop up India as a regional power against China.

India/Israel have the means and the motive to support the TTP and Baloch insurgency. As the article stated, the evidence so far is circumstantial, but it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be discussed.

 

[BATMAN]

 

[ek_indian]

US wants to install an Indian puppet regime in Kabul to prop up India as a regional power against China.

Well mate, India is already a regional power. We are short of global power status and more work needs to be done but atleast we are progressing in right direction. I can also say that China wants to install a Pakistani puppet regime in Kabul to prop up Pakistan as a regional power against India. But this would be offtopic. This is not related to thread.

India/Israel have the means and the motive to support the TTP and Baloch insurgency. As the article stated, the evidence so far is circumstantial, but it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be discussed.

The thread is about Indian involvement. Israel is nothing to do with this. Please assure whom you want to accuse India, USA, Israel, any two of them or all.
The socalled circumstancial evidences has been discussed and refuted successfully. If we go the date of the article, these circumstancial evidences were not converted to "actual proofs" in more than one year.

 

[rubyjackass]

Why are the serial numbers on the VIckers gun not shown as proof?

It is as good as showing this photo as proof of Indian involvement.

I am pretty sure this photo predates the pic you posted.
Besides these guns must be manufactured during WW-II, pre-independence, which means without other proofs, there is equal reasons for this to be found in Pakistan as in India.

You have made a fool of yourself talking about the un-cissed *****es. I need not add to it.
Also why is the Sikhness of the gentleman highlighted there? It should me more like'A Pakistani:'

 

[King Julien]

Lets see how many times these theories have been proved wrong.

1.) Baluchistan included in Indo-Pak joint statement.
LINK
Notice the comments by Pakistani members, almost all of them are chest thumping that RAW wants to destabilize Pakistan, Some suggest that India should be Nuked asap.
An Pakistani News desperate to prove that India is involved, starts speculating what exactly PM Gilani would have discussed with Indian PM. LINK
2 months later...
Pak now says no Baloch dossier was given to India
LINK
Notice Pakistani members have suddenly disappeared.

2.) India's Revenge: RAW Attacks Cricketers in Pakistan
LINK
This time the confidence that India did it is at all time high, Some again suggest that India should be Nuked asap.
Confidence based on theory coming from an cheap source.
7 months later...
Sri Lankan outfit behind Lahore attack - Pakistan PM
LINK
Pakistani members disappeared yet again...

 

[BATMAN]