Is Army overstepping ?

[Kompromat]

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[Awesome]

The leaders of this institution are seemingly corrupt with the whole "Amreeka sadda mai-baap" hai culture.

Especially Kayani, who can offer crappy Indian movie dialogs against RC planes, but not have the guts to take them down.

I had never doubted the Army's role in these projects - however are its leaders defending Pakistan as thats the main thing its supposed to be doing?

 

[Kompromat]

The leaders of this institution are seemingly corrupt with the whole "Amreeka sadda mai-baap" hai culture.

Especially Kayani, who can offer crappy Indian movie dialogs against RC planes, but not have the guts to take them down.

I had never doubted the Army's role in these projects - however are its leaders defending Pakistan as thats the main thing its supposed to be doing?

I have my complaints about the Kiyani , but rationality tells us , when you are up against a bull dog the best thing you can do is to avoid it .

Lets think about it rationally , shooting down those drones are no big deal , but what would happen after that ? are we ready for that ?

If we shoot down a few drones , next thing Yankees will send would be F-15E and F/A-18 followed by EW and B-1B and B-52s , they will carry out carpet bombing in FATA killing hundreds of our civilians. We WONT be able to respond to them.

I am sure Army HAS a strategy , our intel community HAS a strategy , Gov's role is nil as it is spineless. I say , kick the can down the road , the only ace in the hole we have is time which is a luxury US doesn't have , play with time , wait , wait , wait , think , think , think and then strike if necessary. A Mosquito killed Nimrod , we have to find that Mosquito.

 

[Kompromat]

 

[Awesome]

I have my complaints about the Kiyani , but rationality tells us , when you are up against a bull dog the best thing you can do is to avoid it .

Lets think about it rationally , shooting down those drones are no big deal , but what would happen after that ? are we ready for that ?

If we shoot down a few drones , next thing Yankees will send would be F-15E and F/A-18 followed by EW and B-1B and B-52s , they will carry out carpet bombing in FATA killing hundreds of our brothers. We WONT be able to respond to them.

I am sure Army HAS a strategy , our intel community HAS a strategy , Gov's role is nil as it is spineless. I say , kick the can down the road , the only ace in the hole we have is time which is a luxury US doesn't have , play with time , wait , wait , wait , think , think , think and then strike if necessary. A Mosquito killed Nimrod , we have to find that Mosquito.

If we are going to be afraid of going against the Americans then why run a country? Sign over Pakistan to America. America can send F-15s and F/A 18s for just about anything and what will you do about it? It can send it over the ruse that our poop stinks too much and you can't do anything about it.

Although it does raise the classic question, are you willing to die slowly but surely or quickly with a slight chance you might not die at all?

America is killing Pakistan - surely. By bombing Waziristan it is creating terrorists that bomb us and bomb them and the rest of the world, then the rest of the world turns against us, we become a pariah state and so on. We are surely going to end up dead with this strategy.

On the flipside, if we destroy drones America would want its men in safety before it escalates it into a war. Their hundred thousand men in Afghanistan bases are sitting ducks to our conventional weaponry, if we take them out then America would have to escalate things further. These escalations aren't taken lightly and there is a chance America would back off - What did America do to Iran till today? What did it do to North Korea? America can't escalate things into full blow wars so easily. Yes if you don't act immediately and let your country rot into nothingness then one day will come when you will be taken out with soft blows alone.

 

[Kompromat]

If we are going to be afraid of going against the Americans then why run a country? Sign over Pakistan to America. America can send F-15s and F/A 18s for just about anything and what will you do about it? It can send it over the ruse that our poop stinks too much and you can't do anything about it.

Although it does raise the classic question, are you willing to die slowly but surely or quickly with a slight chance you might not die at all?

America is killing Pakistan - surely. By bombing Waziristan it is creating terrorists that bomb us and bomb them and the rest of the world, then the rest of the world turns against us, we become a pariah state and so on. We are surely going to end up dead with this strategy.

On the flipside, if we destroy drones America would want its men in safety before it escalates it into a war. Their hundred thousand men in Afghanistan bases are sitting ducks to our conventional weaponry, if we take them out then America would have to escalate things further. These escalations aren't taken lightly and there is a chance America would back off - What did America do to Iran till today? What did it do to North Korea? America can't escalate things into full blow wars so easily. Yes if you don't act immediately and let your country rot into nothingness then one day will come when you will be taken out with soft blows alone.

You are correct in everything you have stated so far. Iran and North Korea has something we don't have which is a Govt willing to keep its National interest first. Our leaders have all of their assets sitting in swiss banks why do you think they would cook a recipe to go "kangaal" ?

What we need to do is to bring immediate political change in Pakistan , which is now long overdue. Unless we have a govt which could stand up and tell the US to stop "dronning" we can't take action.

I remember asking a well known Ret Air Commodore this same question , he said that we train to kill and get killed for Pakistan , but you have to have a govt be it civil or military to take a political stand which then would be backed by Military muscle.

Without escalating anything , we can shut US supplies down -without saying sorry but which Govt would do that ? , if zardari , nawaz , MQM does it their assets overseas would be frozen. So they have everything to lose in this game.

You understand the problem lies on Sahrah e dastoor - not so much in the GHQ. If we have to stop these drones , if we have to stop Pakistan from being killed by this "Trilogy of terror blame game " , if we have to live with self esteem - We MUST change our govt.

If the next govt , comes and tells the US to shut drone strike program or get its supplies shut permanently and actually means it , i am sure US will think twice and would back off.

 

[VelocuR]

I have said this same thing over again and angry at Kiyani.

What I see only option is silence, US will departure in 2014 and Pakistan exhaustly lost 70 billions and many damages in struggles with proxy wars in Afghanistan.

Keep silence, Pakistan can't afford outbursts with US and its alliances.

Interesting this facts, (read Muse article)
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/136406-resetting-ties-us.html#post2218832

 

[MastanKhan]

If we are going to be afraid of going against the Americans then why run a country? Sign over Pakistan to America. America can send F-15s and F/A 18s for just about anything and what will you do about it? It can send it over the ruse that our poop stinks too much and you can't do anything about it.

Although it does raise the classic question, are you willing to die slowly but surely or quickly with a slight chance you might not die at all?

America is killing Pakistan - surely. By bombing Waziristan it is creating terrorists that bomb us and bomb them and the rest of the world, then the rest of the world turns against us, we become a pariah state and so on. We are surely going to end up dead with this strategy.

On the flipside, if we destroy drones America would want its men in safety before it escalates it into a war. Their hundred thousand men in Afghanistan bases are sitting ducks to our conventional weaponry, if we take them out then America would have to escalate things further. These escalations aren't taken lightly and there is a chance America would back off - What did America do to Iran till today? What did it do to North Korea? America can't escalate things into full blow wars so easily. Yes if you don't act immediately and let your country rot into nothingness then one day will come when you will be taken out with soft blows alone.

Asim,

You are mistaken about our capabilities----all this fancy stuff that you are talking about that we have---will not go to the lift off stage----. It is good to be nationalistic---but that is where it needs to end.

Our stuff is only and only india centric----the U S lives on a totally different galaxy-----.

Pakistanis have caused enough deaths in this regions----they are the cause of hundreds of thousands of dead afghans---what more do we want more deaths to our country----.

Didn't you know what we were getting into 10 years ago when you supported al qaeda and taliban and told the taliban to fight the americans-------you would have had the al qaeda executed in afghanistan and pakistan----and kept the christian armies away from amuslim state----.

My good man---the u s needs only three to four planes in the air to jam all kinds of pakistani transmissions----basically---two or maybe three seawolf class submarines would be needed to launch the cruise missiles to take out the millitary, industrial and railway ( what ever is left )infrastructure of pakistan----.

 

[MastanKhan]

You are correct in everything you have stated so far. Iran and North Korea has something we don't have which is a Govt willing to keep its National interest first. Our leaders have all of their assets sitting in swiss banks why do you think they would cook a recipe to go "kangaal" ?

What we need to do is to bring immediate political change in Pakistan , which is now long overdue. Unless we have a govt which could stand up and tell the US to stop "dronning" we can't take action.

I remember asking a well known Ret Air Commodore this same question , he said that we train to kill and get killed for Pakistan , but you have to have a govt be it civil or military to take a political stand which then would be backed by Military muscle.

Without escalating anything , we can shut US supplies down -without saying sorry but which Govt would do that ? , if zardari , nawaz , MQM does it their assets overseas would be frozen. So they have everything to lose in this game.

You understand the problem lies on Sahrah e dastoor - not so much in the GHQ. If we have to stop these drones , if we have to stop Pakistan from being killed by this "Trilogy of terror blame game " , if we have to live with self esteem - We MUST change our govt.

If the next govt , comes and tells the US to shut drone strike program or get its supplies shut permanently and actually means it , i am sure US will think twice and would back off.

Hi,

Where Kiyani has failed pakistan is that he has not spoken up enough for pakistan and defended it in the world media as strongly as the american generals have----that makes him a totally disgusting human being---alongwith his pal Gen Pasha---. These cowards should have spoken up stronger in favour of pakistan as thye american generals did for the U S.

We are all shocked at Gen Kiyani's behaviour---history will judge him very poorly----this man has no visible leading character traits in him----. He knows very well the relationship the millitary has in restraining the civilian govt from going totally corrupt----he seems to a part and package of the corruption of pak govt as well---. This man is not predictable---and that is not good.

 

[Leader]

the title is wrong...

hasnot army overstepped quite a few times ??


at any given day I would prefer a politician over a nightwatchman to take care of the affairs of my homeland.

 

[JonAsad]

the title is wrong...

hasnot army overstepped quite a few times ??


at any given day I would prefer a politician over a nightwatchman to take care of the affairs of my homeland.

and until the political system is not reformed lets keep the county go down the drain-

 

[Leader]

and until the political system is not reformed lets keep the county go down the drain-

vigilant society, the more of it the better the institution working.

 

[Zarvan]

The leaders of this institution are seemingly corrupt with the whole "Amreeka sadda mai-baap" hai culture.

Especially Kayani, who can offer crappy Indian movie dialogs against RC planes, but not have the guts to take them down.

I had never doubted the Army's role in these projects - however are its leaders defending Pakistan as thats the main thing its supposed to be doing?

Sir first Generals don't come from the sky Sir they get promoted because of their performance and if Kiyani don't have guts than ask your elected government to show guts and come on TV and order Army to strike down any American Plane if than they will not do they will get exposed so first ask your elected government before blaming the Army

 

[Awesome]

Sir first Generals don't come from the sky Sir they get promoted because of their performance and if Kiyani don't have guts than ask your elected government to show guts and come on TV and order Army to strike down any American Plane if than they will not do they will get exposed so first ask your elected government before blaming the Army

That excuse would fly when Kayani first comes and says "You know I've been ordered not to shoot down the RC planes". As far as I know, defending Pakistan are the standing orders of the Pakistan Army. Our member Stealth made a very good point, America's helicopter comes and Kayani becomes Andha and India's comes and his vision is 20/20 all of a sudden.

I don't know if you followed the 2002 standoff with India closely but I distinctly remember India sent an advanced Israeli drone to Lahore and it was taken out within minutes. PAF didn't call up Musharraf, "Sir ji, Pak Fizaya, apna kaam karle?"

Let's be honest here, this excuse at best, at best earns Kayani the right to be called hand in glove with Zardari if not worse than him and we all know all sorts of scum synonyms that Zardari can be equated with.

You know America ke thallay lagnay main khaali hukmaraan nahi, humari kaum, Mullay, Ghairat brigade, bayghairat brigade, bay haya, bad zok brigade, sab shamil hain. I don't deny that, lekin hai toh ghalat?

 

[Awesome]

Asim,

You are mistaken about our capabilities----all this fancy stuff that you are talking about that we have---will not go to the lift off stage----. It is good to be nationalistic---but that is where it needs to end.

Our stuff is only and only india centric----the U S lives on a totally different galaxy-----.

Pakistanis have caused enough deaths in this regions----they are the cause of hundreds of thousands of dead afghans---what more do we want more deaths to our country----.

Didn't you know what we were getting into 10 years ago when you supported al qaeda and taliban and told the taliban to fight the americans-------you would have had the al qaeda executed in afghanistan and pakistan----and kept the christian armies away from amuslim state----.

My good man---the u s needs only three to four planes in the air to jam all kinds of pakistani transmissions----basically---two or maybe three seawolf class submarines would be needed to launch the cruise missiles to take out the millitary, industrial and railway ( what ever is left )infrastructure of pakistan----.

I don't know about you, but I was too busy cheering on the Americans and echoing our leader's statement "You have our unstinted support".

But where the action should have remained on Al Qaeda, we decided to rope in Taliban as well... Why?

I would much rather be a kid as I remember Iqbal's words

Khirad Ko Ghulami Se Azad Kar
Jawanon Ko Peeron Ka Ustad Kar

Free young men&#8217;s minds from slavery,
And make them mentors of the old.

I mean is this the attitude our elders want us to grow into? I mean I can't imagine ever teaching my kid "When a big bad bully comes, back off and give him your lunch money, be a smart coward, son, not a fool brave"

I mean this America with its Divine 4 planes and one submarine that can take out the Pakistan military, didn't become what it is by cowering from its enemies. What was America when it decided to nuke Japan? If our elders were in charge of America back then Pearl Harbor ke baad toh sab ki pant gheeli hojati.

Self-defence. It's basic. I'm not asking to support AQ, attack America, its a good country, I don't want war with it, its got good people. But what do you do when its people want to attack you anyway? I mean if a saintly person goes nuts and starts slapping you like crazy what would you say? Aha kya maza araha hai chapairein khanay ka.

I'm not asking for anything big. I'm asking for Kayani to do his job because he can get the sun and the moon for us but if he doesn't defend Pakistan then hes zero.