Is Arjun MBT Dead?

[Titanium]

Army okays development of New tank

New Delhi (PTI): The army on Tuesday gave the go-ahead for developing next generation indigenous battle tanks after a successful run of the original model Arjun.

Based on its experience in designing the Arjun MBTs, the DRDO was coming up with a lighter and more versatile version called Arjun MK-II which is expected to meet future needs, Army chief General Deepak Kapoor told an international seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles here

.

Is it new tank development program?

Indian Army seeks next generation battle tank » www.idrw.org / Indian Defense Research Wing

The Indian Army has sought a new generation main battle tank (MBT) even as it reluctantly prepares to receive the homegrown Arjun tank that has been over three decades in the making.

'What we have today is mid-level technology. What we need is a tank of international quality,' Indian Army chief Gen. Deepak Kapoor said Tuesday.

'I have no doubt that the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) will be able to develop indigenous capabilities for coming up with a better answer and more versatile armoured fighting vehicle (than Arjun) in the future,' he added while speaking at the inaugural session of an international seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles, the first to be held here.

Kapoor also called for synergy between scientists, users and producers to ensure the delivery of a cutting-edge-technology tank.

'The scientists cannot work in isolation. The users (the army) should be with them. So also should the producers, be they the public sector undertakings or private players. Only then will we see an indigenous armoured fighting vehicle of international quality,' the army chief maintained.

Kapoor's remarks were a clear indication that even as the Indian Army prepares to induct its first squadron of 14 Arjuns, it is not too happy with the tank.

These tanks, in fact, had been handed over for user trials last year and were returned to the manufacturer -- the Combat Vehicles Development Establishment -- with a list of defects that have now apparently been ironed out.

These include a deficient fire control system, inaccuracy of its guns, low speeds in tactical areas -- principally deserts -- and its inability to operate in temperatures over 50 degrees Celsius.

Going by the news, it seems Indian Army has dropped Arjun in its current form. So the question is..a new tank development tank program is launched or same tank with weight reduction?

Added on 26 November:

DefenseNews.com - India Tackles Second Tank Design Project - 11/26/07 17:19

NEW DELHI — India plans to design another main battle tank for future Army requirements, its second such attempt after a 30-year effort to develop the Arjun, which failed to meet requirements.

The state-owned Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) has initiated the design and development of the Futuristic Main Battle Tank (FMBT), intended to fulfill the original role of the Arjun and replace aging Russian T-72 tanks, a senior CVRDE scientist said.
CVRDE is India’s only tank development agency, operating under the state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The DRDO will form a consortium to design and develop the FMBT. CRDRE has short-listed the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, as its development partner, and will also seek partnership with two unidentified private companies.
The CVRDE scientist said full development will begin in April. DRDO will fund 50 percent of the cost with the partners paying for the rest. Six prototypes will be developed in seven years, and bulk production is planned from 2020.

The FMBT will weigh 40 tons and feature a 125mm gun, the CVRDE scientist said. Advanced features will include the ability to fire kinetic weapons and missiles, an active protection system, and hybrid armor to defeat improvised explosive devices.

The tank will be able to fight at night and fulfill surveillance and reconnaissance roles. It will have a third-generation transmission system, integrated fire-control with laser finders, battlefield-management system and mine-detection system.

As I expected there will be new name, the new tank will be called Future main battle tank [FMBT] for now, on the lines of LCA, MCA, ...lets see which mythical warrior name will be named by Brahmins.

After Arjun MBT, his half brother Karna i.e Tank-ex and still born Bhim to now FMBT!! Intersting to see if tank will be produced by 2020 after failure of two recent attempts.

 

[Titanium]

Wonder what will be the new name for the tank, the mytholigical names are getting exhausted.

Arjun... dead after 35 years, Bhim ...still born, karna...going nowhere, Bhishma....as name suggest-grandad of 72, how much shelf life left in it?


Anyone have names of the the small bit players from Mahabharata?

 

[Flintlock]

Ah don't worry...there's always Ramayan, and if that runs out, then plenty of kings and freedom fighters to name it after.
Worst comes to worst, there's a long list of Gandhis waiting in the wings.

But Titanium, why would you want to deliberately put your foot in your mouth?

 

[Titanium]

Ah don't worry...there's always Ramayan, and if that runs out, then plenty of kings and freedom fighters to name it after.
Worst comes to worst, there's a long list of Gandhis waiting in the wings.

But Titanium, why would you want to deliberately put your foot in your mouth?

I am really worried now, as the Mythological warrior kings are biting under Brahmin/Bania supervision.

 

[con]

I am really worried now, as the Mythological warrior kings are biting under Brahmin/Bania supervision.

What a idiotic comment. For some despite education, remain illiterate.

 

[Flintlock]

I am really worried now, as the Mythological warrior kings are biting under Brahmin/Bania supervision.

?? Could you write something that makes sense for a change?

 

[BATMAN]

same tank with weight reduction?

I believe so, which in my opinion will also take, perhaps a decade more to materialise.
If there were any limited number of Arjun ever produced, they will be only good to pull trollies.
Recent purchase of T-90 in large numbers by IA clearly indicates, where Arjun is heading.

 

[Titanium]

I believe so, which in my opinion will also take, perhaps a decade more to materialise.
If there were any limited number of Arjun ever produced, they will be only good to pull trollies.
Recent purchase of T-90 in large numbers by IA clearly indicates, where Arjun is heading.

I do not think so, for the simple reason that how much you could shave off the weight from a tank of 58 Ton? may a ton or two...still it would not be lighter and versatile tank according to Army.

Arjun is DEAD, Yes dead, history.

DRDO is coming up with new design:

Based on its experience in designing the Arjun MBTs, the DRDO was coming up with a lighter and more versatile version called Arjun MK-II which is expected to meet future needs, Army chief General Deepak Kapoor told an international seminar on Armoured Fighting Vehicles here

Just wait for another mythological warrior . to again bit dust. The Brahmins are just waiting for the auspisious time for nam-karen. You know the astrological thing and all....till then its MK-II.

 

[Titanium]

Ah don't worry...there's always Ramayan, and if that runs out, then plenty of kings and freedom fighters to name it after.
Worst comes to worst, there's a long list of Gandhis waiting in the wings.

So your point is you can afford still more Arjun saga, so the new tank will also take another 30 years and the same story rpeats perpetually untill all mythological warriors and kings ... till Gandhi dynasty names exhaust.

You got your a@#$ covered for a long long time.

 

[Flintlock]

So your point is you can afford still more Arjun saga, so the new tank will also take another 30 years and the same story rpeats perpetually untill all mythological warriors and kings ... till Gandhi dynasty names exhaust.

You got your a@#$ covered for a long long time.

Eggactly!!

Took you long enough!!

 

[Titanium]

Eggactly!!

Took you long enough!!

One thing we agree on, Arjun MBT is dead and the new tank development will be no different from Arjun tank path.

Oh that makes we agree on two counts

 

[Flintlock]

One thing we agree on, Arjun MBT is dead and the new tank development will be no different from Arjun tank path.

Oh that makes we agree on two counts

I'm glad we do!!

Let me warn you though...be prepared to Eat your words!

 

[Titanium]

I'm glad we do!!

Let me warn you though...be prepared to Eat your words!

Am more than eager, but even today the behavour does not seem to change.

IAF accuses BEL of supplying poor equipment

We have same Mod, same PSU and the same users. Nothing changed now and nothing will in the forseable future.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has had enough. On August 31, the deputy chief of Air Staff, Air Marshall NAK Browne, fired a letter to the chairman of Bharat Electronics (BEL), with a copy to the Ministry of Defence (MoD), complaining that BEL is misusing its status as a DPSU to arm-twist the IAF into buying equipment that is substandard, or is developed abroad, with BEL incorrectly claiming ownership.

In the letter (Air HQ/S 96135/12/2/ASR(TY BM-IV), which has been reviewed by Business Standard, Browne complains, “When BEL equipment fails to meet the IAF’s requirements during field evaluation, the company tries to overturn the rejection by sending representations to MoD.”

The “In all the cases, these representations have been found to be devoid of merit,” the letter points out.

In the purchase of a critical electronic intelligence system (called the Ground Based Mobile Elint System), “BEL imported sizable and critical sub-systems from sub-vendors abroad.”

Apparently, BEL was not developing the system, but merely purchasing components, slapping them together, and selling them to IAF.

 

[Titanium]

DefenseNews.com - India Tackles Second Tank Design Project - 11/26/07 17:19

NEW DELHI — India plans to design another main battle tank for future Army requirements, its second such attempt after a 30-year effort to develop the Arjun, which failed to meet requirements.

The state-owned Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) has initiated the design and development of the Futuristic Main Battle Tank (FMBT), intended to fulfill the original role of the Arjun and replace aging Russian T-72 tanks, a senior CVRDE scientist said.
CVRDE is India’s only tank development agency, operating under the state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The DRDO will form a consortium to design and develop the FMBT. CRDRE has short-listed the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi, as its development partner, and will also seek partnership with two unidentified private companies.
The CVRDE scientist said full development will begin in April. DRDO will fund 50 percent of the cost with the partners paying for the rest. Six prototypes will be developed in seven years, and bulk production is planned from 2020.

The FMBT will weigh 40 tons and feature a 125mm gun, the CVRDE scientist said. Advanced features will include the ability to fire kinetic weapons and missiles, an active protection system, and hybrid armor to defeat improvised explosive devices.

The tank will be able to fight at night and fulfill surveillance and reconnaissance roles. It will have a third-generation transmission system, integrated fire-control with laser finders, battlefield-management system and mine-detection system.

 

[KENT]

As far as Technology and Sophistaction is concerned Arjun Project is not yet dead, but the doctorine that has perceived by IA in which this particular MBT is not fit in. From the induction of majority of T-90 tank, only signify the fact that there is the previlance of Russian Tank doctrine in Indian Army. A Particular homegrown weapon system is not competent enough to meet a high profile ever changing requirements of IA.