America’s next tank: US Army greenlights more aggressive M1 Abrams upgrade

[S10]

You tell me. Let's start with your claims.

I made no specific claims. Burden of proof is on you to provide it when you make one.

 

[LeGenD]

I made no specific claims. Burden of proof is on you to provide it when you make one.

You did in fact. Your statement: "What specific feature does it have that most latest tank upgrades does not already provide?". You are making a claim that other tanks contain features found in AbramsX. Are you sure?

This theme was discussed at length in the link that I have shared in my first post. The tank is found to be more advanced than T-14 and have better design as well.

 

[LegionnairE]

12 rounds per minute. Imagine this.

The Meggitt autoloader system is fundamentally different from how Russian autoloader system(s) work as shown in the video above. In AbramsX, ammo is NOT present in the autoloader compartment like in T-14. The ammo storage compartment is separate and located behind the autoloader compartment. This arrangement creates sufficient gap between the crew compartment and the ammo storage compartment for the crew to be SAFE in case of a mishap in the ammo storage compartment.

They will literally commit suicide before they allow Abram to use autoloader.

You are talking about taking a crew out of a 4 men tank crew, that a lot of adjustment you need to do. Either that or stick a chair in the tank for the 4th crewman you don't need nor wanted to begin with......

the sense that I'm getting is that they really don't give a **** about weight, they will let the tank go up to 80 tons if necessary and keep everything the same.

But if it were me, I would definitely make something like the KF51 Panther or T-14 Armata. I like the unmanned turret idea, I like that a much smaller area has to be armored now and it can be ridiculously well armored and still be under 60 tons, So it appeals to me a lot.

But knowing the Americans, I don't think they will do that.

 

[S10]

You did in fact. Your statement: "What specific feature does it have that most latest tank upgrades does not already provide?". You are making a claim that other tanks contain features found in AbramsX. Are you sure?

This theme was discussed at length in the link that I have shared in my first post. The tank is found to be more advanced than T-14 and have better design as well.

You claimed the following:

"better and more innovative than any tank out there."

I asked you what specific features it has that is already not in existence? You can either take on the onus of proof for your own statement or weasel out with semantic.

 

[jhungary]

the sense that I'm getting is that they really don't give a **** about weight, they will let the tank go up to 80 tons if necessary and keep everything the same.

But if it were me, I would definitely make something like the KF51 Panther or T-14 Armata. I like the unmanned turret idea, I like that a much smaller area has to be armored now and it can be ridiculously well armored and still be under 60 tons, So it appeals to me a lot.

But knowing the Americans, I don't think they will do that.

It depends.

Changes must be adaptable for the crew, if changes are radical, you will need to retrain and recertify all the crew and mechanic. That's a big job that's not just about cost (Which will cost a lot as well) The issue is partly as I said the US Army used to the 4 men crew, the entire maintenance procedure and cycle are based on that. Which mean you don't just need to retrain the people, but you also need to adapt to a brand-new cycle of just about everything.

You can't save that much weight (from 78 tons to < 60) by just making a new design but using the old layout, And this is not about the safety standard of the equipment, this is about habit. And to some degree, money.

 

[LeGenD]

You claimed the following:

"better and more innovative than any tank out there."

I asked you what specific features it has that is already not in existence? You can either take on the onus of proof for your own statement or weasel out with semantic.

WE cannot compare innovations like a checklist. There is a need to understand the system.

1. AbramsX contains a massive unmanned turret with two compartments. The compartment on the front contains a number of sensor systems, embedded Trophy APS (can be replaced), XM914 remote weapon station with a 30 mm chain gun that can engage drones as well as targets on the ground and can be paired with additional weapon systems including Javelin ATGM, and Meggit autoloader system linked to a new 120 mm XM-360 main gun that can fire a new generation of guided rounds. The compartment on the back contains ammo with blowout panel(s) and a blastdoor that allows the Meggit autloader system to pick up ammo. Meggit autoloader system makes it possible for the main gun to fire 12 rounds per minute while in motion.

T-14 contains a relatively smaller and less protected unmanned turret with two compartments. The compartment on the front contains a number of sensor systems, embedded Afghanit APS, a remote weapon station with a 12.7 mm machine gun, a carousel autoloader system linked to a new 125 mm 2A82-1M main gun that is better than the older 125 mm 2A46 main gun used in T-90 variants, and ammo. The compartment on the back also contains ammo but blowout panel(s) are not confirmed. T-14 autoloader system makes it possible for the main gun to fire 10+ rounds per minute while in motion.

Other tanks are not equipped with unmanned turret.

2. AbramsX contains a Diesel Hybrid Electric powerpack. This system significantly reduce fuel consumption from the older Honeywell ATG1500 engine used in other Abrams variants and improve silent watch capability at the same time. This system allows AbramsX to use its sensor systems when idle.

Literally no tank is equipped with this type of powerpack.

3. AbramsX hull contains a well-protected crew compartment with a cockpit style arrangement of control screens linked to sensor systems on the unmanned turret and otherwise including DAS based on AI-enabled Katalyst vehicle electronic architecture with both commander and gunner having access to panoramic sight and each crew member having access to HMDS. This system provides 360 degree situational awareness to the crew without the need to rotating the unmanned turret and opening hatches while scanning the battlefield. AbramsX can avoid obstacles while navigating the terrain in autopilot mode. AbramsX can also provide cues and instructions to compatible drones and other military assets in the battlefield.

Land Systems’ new, modular open architecture features scalable and modular hardware and software for Next Generation Capabilities. It significantly improves warfighter effectiveness via enhanced mobility (obstacle avoidance, path planning); lethality (object detection, object identification/recognition, automated target prioritization); and survivability/reconnaissance (360-degree situational awareness, see-through armor, terrain analysis). Katalyst NGEA also provides core capabilities such as computing, sensor fusion and processing, and power management and distribution. It provides unparalleled performance and size, weight, power and cost (SWaP-C) to support evolving needs.

Literally no tank is equipped with comparable sensor package. T-14 is equipped with sensor package that provides 360 degree situational awareness to the crew but without see-through armor terrain analysis and only commander have access to panoramic sight. Russian AI application is much less developed as well.

4. AbramsX has modular configuration for future-proofing needs and undisclosed features even in the present. Almost everything in the tank can be easily replaced with something better or upgraded, if necessary.

References:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578950647885737984

General Dynamics at AUSA 2021: Transforming America’s Future Fighting Force

Four business units of General Dynamics will participate in the Association of the U.S. Army’s 2021 Annual Meeting & Exposition to showcase innovation that enables multi-domain operations for the U.S. Army, including the ability to interoperate with key allies around the world.

www.gd.com

T-14 Armata Main Battle Tank

T-14 Armata is a new-generation main battle tank (MBT) developed by Russian company Uralvagonzavod (UVZ). It was officially unveiled for the first time during the Moscow Victory Day Parade in May 2…

thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com

the sense that I'm getting is that they really don't give a **** about weight, they will let the tank go up to 80 tons if necessary and keep everything the same.

But if it were me, I would definitely make something like the KF51 Panther or T-14 Armata. I like the unmanned turret idea, I like that a much smaller area has to be armored now and it can be ridiculously well armored and still be under 60 tons, So it appeals to me a lot.

But knowing the Americans, I don't think they will do that.

AbramsX gross weight is reduced to 60 tons courtesy of its onboard innovations.

Not sure what solution US Army will consider though.

 

[LegionnairE]

It depends.

Changes must be adaptable for the crew, if changes are radical, you will need to retrain and recertify all the crew and mechanic. That's a big job that's not just about cost (Which will cost a lot as well) The issue is partly as I said the US Army used to the 4 men crew, the entire maintenance procedure and cycle are based on that. Which mean you don't just need to retrain the people, but you also need to adapt to a brand-new cycle of just about everything.

You can't save that much weight (from 78 tons to < 60) by just making a new design but using the old layout, And this is not about the safety standard of the equipment, this is about habit. And to some degree, money.

The whole maintenance procedure would have to change, Armored units would have to be restructured maybe bigger support battalions, at the regiment level, maybe something else but if you go down the T-14 route, most of the field repair will consist of replacing the autoloading turret, like how you would replace a power pack. So there would have to be enough tank recovery vehicles that can do that.

AbramsX gross weight is reduced to 60 tons courtesy of its onboard innovations.

Not sure what solution US Army will consider though.

Obviously AbramsX has the disadvantage of being based on Abrams.

KF51, being designed from scratch is even lighter despite having the bigger gun.

 

[LeGenD]

Obviously AbramsX has the disadvantage of being based on Abrams.

KF51, being designed from scratch is even lighter despite having the bigger gun.

Gross weight of AbramsX could be significantly reduced by incorporating lighter-weight Future Combat System (FCS) components such as Meggit autoloader system with XM-360 main gun, a new lighter-weight powerpack, and revisited armor package. AbramsX will be easier to use in hostile environments due to its reduced gross weight of 60 tons and reduced logistics requirements by extension. The tank remains well-protected on the whole, which is a good thing.

FCS program was cancelled before it could lead to a design that could sell. General Dynamics decided to give FCS components another shot by incorporating them in Abrams to see what it leads to and the outcome is impressive. AbramsX seems to have convinced US Army to rethink its strategy for how to address emerging threats. US Army scrapped M1A2 SEPv4 and have hinted M1E3 consequently:

Abrams M1E3 will be ‘dramatically different’ than the M1A2 V4 | Shephard

The M1E3 version has been designed to be a more survivable, lighter tank, enhancing the efficacy and manoeuvrability of US Army armoured brigade combat teams.

www.shephardmedia.com

I wonder what M1E3 will be like. Not sure in this sense.

Germany have its own ideas. A bigger gun is not necessarily a better pursuit because ammo storage can become an issue in a tank but let's see what Germany comes up with.

XM-360 main gun is also bigger than L44 M256 gun but in a different way. XM-360 is relatively longer with greater muzzle velocity and flatter trajectory to engage targets at greater distances with precision and can fire more lethal guided rounds. US have spent money on this gun so it might not create another anytime soon.

 

[LegionnairE]

Germany have its own ideas. A bigger gun is not necessarily a better pursuit because ammo storage can become an issue in a tank but let's see what Germany comes up with.

I think it's a net positive. It will open up new possibilities for gun launched guided missiles too.

 

[Fish]

[The Army has] been concerned about the weight class of the Abrams SEPv3… that is pushing 76 to 78 tons combat loaded,”

Damn.

The Ruskie Armata is like what, 50 tons, battle ready?!

Plus, its turret is also unmanned, so one less Ruskie per tank! And knowing Russians, I bet it's built like a... well, a tank.

Plus, Abram's turbine engine is a pig and requires service every 6,000 miles or so. Doubt a Russian-made turbo diesel engine would be anywhere near as 'fragile.'

It's Russians we are talking about, after all!

 

[S10]

WE cannot compare innovations like a checklist. There is a need to understand the system.

1. AbramsX contains a massive unmanned turret with two compartments. The compartment on the front contains a number of sensor systems, embedded Trophy APS (can be replaced), XM914 remote weapon station with a 30 mm chain gun that can engage drones as well as targets on the ground and can be paired with additional weapon systems including Javelin ATGM, and Meggit autoloader system linked to a new 120 mm XM-360 main gun that can fire a new generation of guided rounds. The compartment on the back contains ammo with blowout panel(s) and a blastdoor that allows the Meggit autloader system to pick up ammo. Meggit autoloader system makes it possible for the main gun to fire 12 rounds per minute while in motion.

T-14 contains a relatively smaller and less protected unmanned turret with two compartments. The compartment on the front contains a number of sensor systems, embedded Afghanit APS, a remote weapon station with a 12.7 mm machine gun, a carousel autoloader system linked to a new 125 mm 2A82-1M main gun that is better than the older 125 mm 2A46 main gun used in T-90 variants, and ammo. The compartment on the back also contains ammo but blowout panel(s) are not confirmed. T-14 autoloader system makes it possible for the main gun to fire 10+ rounds per minute while in motion.

Other tanks are not equipped with unmanned turret.

2. AbramsX contains a Diesel Hybrid Electric powerpack. This system significantly reduce fuel consumption from the older Honeywell ATG1500 engine used in other Abrams variants and improve silent watch capability at the same time. This system allows AbramsX to use its sensor systems when idle.

Literally no tank is equipped with this type of powerpack.

3. AbramsX hull contains a well-protected crew compartment with a cockpit style arrangement of control screens linked to sensor systems on the unmanned turret and otherwise including DAS based on AI-enabled Katalyst vehicle electronic architecture with both commander and gunner having access to panoramic sight and each crew member having access to HMDS. This system provides 360 degree situational awareness to the crew without the need to rotating the unmanned turret and opening hatches while scanning the battlefield. AbramsX can avoid obstacles while navigating the terrain in autopilot mode. AbramsX can also provide cues and instructions to compatible drones and other military assets in the battlefield.

Land Systems’ new, modular open architecture features scalable and modular hardware and software for Next Generation Capabilities. It significantly improves warfighter effectiveness via enhanced mobility (obstacle avoidance, path planning); lethality (object detection, object identification/recognition, automated target prioritization); and survivability/reconnaissance (360-degree situational awareness, see-through armor, terrain analysis). Katalyst NGEA also provides core capabilities such as computing, sensor fusion and processing, and power management and distribution. It provides unparalleled performance and size, weight, power and cost (SWaP-C) to support evolving needs.

Literally no tank is equipped with comparable sensor package. T-14 is equipped with sensor package that provides 360 degree situational awareness to the crew but without see-through armor terrain analysis and only commander have access to panoramic sight. Russian AI application is much less developed as well.

4. AbramsX has modular configuration for future-proofing needs and undisclosed features even in the present. Almost everything in the tank can be easily replaced with something better or upgraded, if necessary.

References:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578950647885737984

General Dynamics at AUSA 2021: Transforming America’s Future Fighting Force

Four business units of General Dynamics will participate in the Association of the U.S. Army’s 2021 Annual Meeting & Exposition to showcase innovation that enables multi-domain operations for the U.S. Army, including the ability to interoperate with key allies around the world.

www.gd.com

T-14 Armata Main Battle Tank

T-14 Armata is a new-generation main battle tank (MBT) developed by Russian company Uralvagonzavod (UVZ). It was officially unveiled for the first time during the Moscow Victory Day Parade in May 2…

thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com

AbramsX gross weight is reduced to 60 tons courtesy of its onboard innovations.

Not sure what solution US Army will consider though.

T

WE cannot compare innovations like a checklist. There is a need to understand the system.

1. AbramsX contains a massive unmanned turret with two compartments. The compartment on the front contains a number of sensor systems, embedded Trophy APS (can be replaced), XM914 remote weapon station with a 30 mm chain gun that can engage drones as well as targets on the ground and can be paired with additional weapon systems including Javelin ATGM, and Meggit autoloader system linked to a new 120 mm XM-360 main gun that can fire a new generation of guided rounds. The compartment on the back contains ammo with blowout panel(s) and a blastdoor that allows the Meggit autloader system to pick up ammo. Meggit autoloader system makes it possible for the main gun to fire 12 rounds per minute while in motion.

T-14 contains a relatively smaller and less protected unmanned turret with two compartments. The compartment on the front contains a number of sensor systems, embedded Afghanit APS, a remote weapon station with a 12.7 mm machine gun, a carousel autoloader system linked to a new 125 mm 2A82-1M main gun that is better than the older 125 mm 2A46 main gun used in T-90 variants, and ammo. The compartment on the back also contains ammo but blowout panel(s) are not confirmed. T-14 autoloader system makes it possible for the main gun to fire 10+ rounds per minute while in motion.

Other tanks are not equipped with unmanned turret.

2. AbramsX contains a Diesel Hybrid Electric powerpack. This system significantly reduce fuel consumption from the older Honeywell ATG1500 engine used in other Abrams variants and improve silent watch capability at the same time. This system allows AbramsX to use its sensor systems when idle.

Literally no tank is equipped with this type of powerpack.

3. AbramsX hull contains a well-protected crew compartment with a cockpit style arrangement of control screens linked to sensor systems on the unmanned turret and otherwise including DAS based on AI-enabled Katalyst vehicle electronic architecture with both commander and gunner having access to panoramic sight and each crew member having access to HMDS. This system provides 360 degree situational awareness to the crew without the need to rotating the unmanned turret and opening hatches while scanning the battlefield. AbramsX can avoid obstacles while navigating the terrain in autopilot mode. AbramsX can also provide cues and instructions to compatible drones and other military assets in the battlefield.

Land Systems’ new, modular open architecture features scalable and modular hardware and software for Next Generation Capabilities. It significantly improves warfighter effectiveness via enhanced mobility (obstacle avoidance, path planning); lethality (object detection, object identification/recognition, automated target prioritization); and survivability/reconnaissance (360-degree situational awareness, see-through armor, terrain analysis). Katalyst NGEA also provides core capabilities such as computing, sensor fusion and processing, and power management and distribution. It provides unparalleled performance and size, weight, power and cost (SWaP-C) to support evolving needs.

Literally no tank is equipped with comparable sensor package. T-14 is equipped with sensor package that provides 360 degree situational awareness to the crew but without see-through armor terrain analysis and only commander have access to panoramic sight. Russian AI application is much less developed as well.

4. AbramsX has modular configuration for future-proofing needs and undisclosed features even in the present. Almost everything in the tank can be easily replaced with something better or upgraded, if necessary.

References:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1578950647885737984

General Dynamics at AUSA 2021: Transforming America’s Future Fighting Force

Four business units of General Dynamics will participate in the Association of the U.S. Army’s 2021 Annual Meeting & Exposition to showcase innovation that enables multi-domain operations for the U.S. Army, including the ability to interoperate with key allies around the world.

www.gd.com

T-14 Armata Main Battle Tank

T-14 Armata is a new-generation main battle tank (MBT) developed by Russian company Uralvagonzavod (UVZ). It was officially unveiled for the first time during the Moscow Victory Day Parade in May 2…

thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com

AbramsX gross weight is reduced to 60 tons courtesy of its onboard innovations.

Not sure what solution US Army will consider though.

There is nothing innovative about any of the things you listed. They're simply evolutions of existing products that could be installed to existing tanks.

 

[Manidabest]

i think the era of tanks is gone and the era of robots is coming