IRIAF | News and Discussions

[mohsen]

Iran will never have the purchasing power that the Saudis have but that's not the point, Saudi Arabia is not a threat to Iran militarily and will never be in my opinion, but I digress. The only choice Iran has now for building an airforce is to start a serious fighter programm, not beg Russia to sell them aircraft that are substandard and are not gonna chalange the us airforce. mind you iran is capable of creating an interceptor aircraft that can defend its airspace.

giving too much credit to foreign products and underestimating the domestic potentials and minds is the main problem, you see they suspend a domestic fighter project with the excuse of lack of money, yet at the very fooking same time they talk about buying Russian fighters, as if this budget shortage is only for domestic things.

The situation in our air force is same as in our car industry, decades of assembling obsolete model of foreign cars with sh!ttiest quality and having no R&D, with the excuse of we didn't have the tech, as if tech is something which is produced in foreign markets and not labs.

 

[VEVAK]

Iran will never have the purchasing power that the Saudis have but that's not the point, Saudi Arabia is not a threat to Iran militarily and will never be in my opinion, but I digress. The only choice Iran has now for building an airforce is to start a serious fighter programm, not beg Russia to sell them aircraft that are substandard and are not gonna chalange the us airforce. mind you iran is capable of creating an interceptor aircraft that can defend its airspace.

Even if Iran was capable of developing a fighter as good as the Su-30 it is most definitely not capable of carrying out serial production (10-24 per year) let alone mass production (+24 per year) of such an aircraft within the next 10-15 years hell Iran currently doesn't even have to tools to build the aircraft's airframe at such rates let alone anything else

I'm Iranian and I would of loved it if Iran had a real fighter program! Hell, even if Iran was capable of building a fighter comparable to the Canadian Avro Arrow I'd say YES lest build our own fighter but we currently are not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Arrow

Iran currently doesn't have a large enough vacuum furnace (titanium) to build a single Su-30 or Avro Arrow Air Frame so starting a fighter project is going to cost Iran a lot more than buying fighters because you first need to buy or develop the tools....

Plus, Iran's Air Force is in such short supply that even if they were to purchase 100 Su-30's tomorrow that would still not be enough...

One of the main reason Iran chose the F-5 to reverse engineer is due to the extremely low titanium requirements (comparatively) of that airframe

 

[Arminkh]

Even if Iran was capable of developing a fighter as good as the Su-30 it is most definitely not capable of carrying out serial production (10-24 per year) let alone mass production (+24 per year) of such an aircraft within the next 10-15 years hell Iran currently doesn't even have to tools to build the aircraft's airframe at such rates let alone anything else

I'm Iranian and I would of loved it if Iran had a real fighter program! Hell, even if Iran was capable of building a fighter comparable to the Canadian Avro Arrow I'd say YES lest build our own fighter but we currently are not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Arrow

Iran currently doesn't have a large enough vacuum furnace (titanium) to build a single Su-30 or Avro Arrow Air Frame so starting a fighter project is going to cost Iran a lot more than buying fighters because you first need to buy or develop the tools....

Plus, Iran's Air Force is in such short supply that even if they were to purchase 100 Su-30's tomorrow that would still not be enough...

One of the main reason Iran chose the F-5 to reverse engineer is due to the extremely low titanium requirements (comparatively) of that airframe

Avro Arrow was a marvel of engineering in its time.Its climb rate was second to none. Unfortunately for Canada, the government of the time (maybe bribed by US arms giants) was convinced that with the new ballistic missiles being developed, the era of fighters is over. So they scrapped the production plan and even trashed the two prototypes that were built fearing the technology fall into Soviet hands. The move made the company responsible, Avro, to go bankrupt. All of the brilliant minds that were working for that company moved to US and started working for the Aersospace companies there including NASA.

Canadians are still cursing that decision.

Point is, if a country wants to have its own Aerospace program, it should build whatever it can and put it into use. Be it a trainer jet or a ground attack jet that is no match for its foreign counterparts. If not, the longer you wait, the further you will be behind the rest of the world. Some Canadian military people are still insisting that Canada should build its own jet fighter, especially now that Canada can't choose how to replace its aging CF-18s as there doesn't seem to be any good options. But being part of Nato and having lost the ability to do so won't let them get too far.

 

[VEVAK]

Avro Arrow was a marvel of engineering in its time.Its climb rate was second to none. Unfortunately for Canada, the government of the time (maybe bribed by US arms giants) was convinced that with the new ballistic missiles being developed, the era of fighters is over. So they scrapped the production plan and even trashed the two prototypes that were built fearing the technology fall into Soviet hands. The move made the company responsible, Avro, to go bankrupt. All of the brilliant minds that were working for that company moved to US and started working for the Aersospace companies there including NASA.

Canadians are still cursing that decision.

Point is, if a country wants to have its own Aerospace program, it should build whatever it can and put it into use. Be it a trainer jet or a ground attack jet that is no match for its foreign counterparts. If not, the longer you wait, the further you will be behind the rest of the world. Some Canadian military people are still insisting that Canada should build its own jet fighter, especially now that Canada can't choose how to replace its aging CF-18s as there doesn't seem to be any good options. But being part of Nato and having lost the ability to do so won't let them get too far.

Canada had 3 massive vacuum furnaces by the time Avro Arrow ended "3" and they had only constructed 6 by then but were fully ready to head into mass production!!!! Iran doesn't even have a single one that size!

What Iran needs to do is slowly invest in the tools and facilities it needs threw time because that is the only way Iran can burden the costs of a real fighter program!

You have to be realistic, fighters like the Saegheh, Azarakhsh and F-5 are not capable of meeting all the needs of IRIAF!
And if you look at the combat history of Iran-Iraq war the F-5E had the least Air-to-Air kill & had the least successful strikes despite flying more sorties than any other fighter! F-5E is only good for close air support a roll that UAV's are slowly starting to take over

More than any other fighter Iran need's Air Superiority fighters a fighter Iran is incapable of producing at any rate

 

[NaCon]

Canada had 3 massive vacuum furnaces by the time Avro Arrow ended "3" and they had only constructed 6 by then but were fully ready to head into mass production!!!! Iran doesn't even have a single one that size!

What Iran needs to do is slowly invest in the tools and facilities it needs threw time because that is the only way Iran can burden the costs of a real fighter program!

You have to be realistic, fighters like the Saegheh, Azarakhsh and F-5 are not capable of meeting all the needs of IRIAF!
And if you look at the combat history of Iran-Iraq war the F-5E had the least Air-to-Air kill & had the least successful strikes despite flying more sorties than any other fighter! F-5E is only good for close air support a roll that UAV's are slowly starting to take over

More than any other fighter Iran need's Air Superiority fighters a fighter Iran is incapable of producing at any rate

how much would a fighter program cost? 20 billion 30 billion that's nothing when you look at it in the long run. Iran can certainly afford a program like that.

 

[AmirPatriot]

how much would a fighter program cost? 20 billion 30 billion that's nothing when you look at it in the long run. Iran can certainly afford a program like that.

In the long run, a domestic fighter program is much cheaper and more secure than buying from abroad.

 

[Arminkh]

Canada had 3 massive vacuum furnaces by the time Avro Arrow ended "3" and they had only constructed 6 by then but were fully ready to head into mass production!!!! Iran doesn't even have a single one that size!

What Iran needs to do is slowly invest in the tools and facilities it needs threw time because that is the only way Iran can burden the costs of a real fighter program!

You have to be realistic, fighters like the Saegheh, Azarakhsh and F-5 are not capable of meeting all the needs of IRIAF!
And if you look at the combat history of Iran-Iraq war the F-5E had the least Air-to-Air kill & had the least successful strikes despite flying more sorties than any other fighter! F-5E is only good for close air support a roll that UAV's are slowly starting to take over

More than any other fighter Iran need's Air Superiority fighters a fighter Iran is incapable of producing at any rate

how much would a fighter program cost? 20 billion 30 billion that's nothing when you look at it in the long run. Iran can certainly afford a program like that.

In the long run, a domestic fighter program is much cheaper and more secure than buying from abroad.

Plus above, an air superiority fighter is usually the most expensive and complicated type of combat airplane. We don't need to start with that. We can start with subsonic ground attack air craft like Russian Su25 that IRGC currently uses a lot or trainer jets that can also be used as light attack air craft like Kosar. Q-313 is designed as a low flying sub sonic ground attack jet. Kosar is a viable trainer jet well within Iran's capacity.

I know that right now, Kosar has got priority in Iran's aerospace programs. That can act as a platform to gain experience and build up on. Eventually those will lead to indigenous jet fighter program. Until then, missile defense should fill the gap for lack of competent jet fighters.

 

[VEVAK]

how much would a fighter program cost? 20 billion 30 billion that's nothing when you look at it in the long run. Iran can certainly afford a program like that.

1st If you think Iran has the money and is going to invest $30 Billion USD on a fighter program then they surely have the money to invest an additional $15 Billion USD on 120-150 Su-30's to ensure the country doesn't go without an Air Force

Problem is, Iranian leader are under the impression that they can start a real fighter program from the ground up with only $2-$3 billion

Iran still needs to build the infrastructure to produce the raw martials (high grade aluminum / titanium & other composite materials)

And Iran would need to construct the infrastructure to produce every part and component of that aircrafts from the engine, landing gear, tires, ejection seat, radar, MFD, weapons system, avionics, INS, fly by wire system, radar, airframe, fuel cells, etc, etc, just imagine every one of these components require their own facility, tools and personal that need to be built from the ground up and such an effort will take well beyond a decade mainly because the infrastructure to mass produce even the raw materials required to produce some of these components aren't there let alone the components themselves so everything needs to be built from the ground up! From the facilities, to the tools and personal need to be developed and Iran's Air Force just doesn't have the time to solely rely on a dream!
This is an effort Iran should have invested $10-$20 billion dollars in 10 years ago when it was drowning in cash but now it's too late to solely rely on such a program!

In my opinion this is what Iran should do:

1. Invest $15 Billion USD in the procurement of ~ 150 Su-30's 50 to be direct sales & 100 to be produced in Iran at a rate of +20 per year

2. Invest in high grade aluminum and titanium production and you'll need to build massive vacuum furnaces to build single peace parts

3. Start competition between IRIAF & AFAGIR for a working fighter prototype, requirements being:

- 2 engine multirole fighter ( The engines to be provided for by the government AL-31 if possible if not the RD-33 )
- Max speed of at least Mach 1.8 & Service Ceiling +50K ft
- Reduced RCS requirements to include no vertical surfaces & an internal weapons bay
-Fly-By-Wire system
-Air refueling capabilities
-IRST to be designed into airframe
-1 year to come up with design and scale down model testing
-2 years to build working prototype using currently available part ...
Each side will be assigned 1 university and 3 companies for assistance

Goal here is to come up with the best platform and the best platform wins the $10 Billion contract to go on and build a production model which for Iran will take 7-10 years giving you some time fix the engine problem, here you need to procure engines by any means necessary preferably develop or reverse engineer if not buy... Regardless you'll need to make multi billion dollar investment here as well

You also need help from the private sector so you can offer contracts to any company that takes up this endeavor to produce various parts or components

And if all goes to plan in about 10-12 years from now Iran would have to spend another $5 billion and put an order in for 50 fighter deliver to start 15 years from now at rate of just under 20 a year

 

[NaCon]

1st If you think Iran has the money and is going to invest $30 Billion USD on a fighter program then they surely have the money to invest an additional $15 Billion USD on 120-150 Su-30's to ensure the country doesn't go without an Air Force.
1. Invest $15 Billion USD in the procurement of ~ 150 Su-30's 50 to be direct sales & 100 to be produced in Iran at a rate of +20 per year

Russia will never sell Iran aircrafts that can challenge the Israeli air force. in my opinion its better for Iran to invest all of this money in acquiring technologies rather than buying tanks aircrafts or ships, that way Iran's economy will flourish even more and will become even more immune to future economic sanctions.

The only reason Russia delivered the S-300 defensive system in limited amounts mind you is because was because of the law suit and the fact that Israel will be acquiring the F35 in the near future. the F35 is capable of destroying s300 batteries. what i mean to say is that Russia will never undermine Israel's strike capability so Iran should never rely on Russia for arms sales.

 

[VEVAK]

Russia will never sell Iran aircrafts that can challenge the Israeli air force. in my opinion its better for Iran to invest all of this money in acquiring technologies rather than buying tanks aircrafts or ships, that way Iran's economy will flourish even more and will become even more immune to future economic sanctions.

The only reason Russia delivered the S-300 defensive system in limited amounts mind you is because was because of the law suit and the fact that Israel will be acquiring the F35 in the near future. the F35 is capable of destroying s300 batteries. what i mean to say is that Russia will never undermine Israel's strike capability so Iran should never rely on Russia for arms sales.

What love lost do you think Russia has with Israel? Money is money & Iran is a much bigger market! The absolute only thing the Russian would fear is U.S. pressure and sanctions that's it!

Iran has already put an order in for 48 Su-30's deliver to begin 2019 (Which will likely get delayed for a year or two) I'll bet if the 1st batch turns out to be as good as expected then I believe Iran will put in another order in...

 

[NaCon]

What love lost do you think Russia has with Israel? Money is money & Iran is a much bigger market! The absolute only thing the Russian would fear is U.S. pressure and sanctions that's it!

Iran has already put an order in for 48 Su-30's deliver to begin 2019 (Which will likely get delayed for a year or two) I'll bet if the 1st batch turns out to be as good as expected then I believe Iran will put in another order in...

first the Su 30 that Iran will allegedly receive won't challenge the Israeli air force. Second why did Russia delay the S-300 system for nearly a decade? and when they agreed to finally sell them the system, Iran(considering the fact that they are developing a similar system to the S-300) requested the S-400 but Russia refused? Why did Russia stop the joint development of the trainer aircraft (Shafaq)? and why didn't they sell Iran, during the past 2 decades, anything of significance? don't tell me its because of the sanctions, because they could have easily vetoed them.
That being said the situation can change in the future, if the relations between Russia and Nato deteriorierte, Russia and Iran might become strategic allies rather than two countries having similar points of view on some regional matters, in that case they will have no choice but to sell Iran (even at low prices) advanced and sophisticated weapons to defend their national security.

 

[VEVAK]

first the Su 30 that Iran will allegedly receive won't challenge the Israeli air force. Second why did Russia delay the S-300 system for nearly a decade? and when they agreed to finally sell them the system, Iran(considering the fact that they are developing a similar system to the S-300) requested the S-400 but Russia refused? Why did Russia stop the joint development of the trainer aircraft (Shafaq)? and why didn't they sell Iran, during the past 2 decades, anything of significance? don't tell me its because of the sanctions, because they could have easily vetoed them.
That being said the situation can change in the future, if the relations between Russia and Nato deteriorierte, Russia and Iran might become strategic allies rather than two countries having similar points of view on some regional matters, in that case they will have no choice but to sell Iran (even at low prices) advanced and sophisticated weapons to defend their national security.

Are you under the delusion that the Russians were bargaining to sell Iran less Su-30's rather than more because of Israel? My God! LOL!

Russians gave them maybe because due to the Nuclear Deal Russia now doesn't need to fear US sanctions and US repercussions so it has absolutely nothing to do with Israel!! Israeli's have delusions of grandeur and this is one of them!

No Israel didn't design or contribute to the design of the J-10 and the Chinese didn't steal, buy or borrow Israeli blueprints!
No Russia's delay of the S-300 had absolutely nothing to do with Israel!
No Russia is not reliant on Israeli drone technology!

These are nothing but Israeli delusions!

As I said before Russia is more afraid of U.S. pressures and sanctions than anything else and if the U.S. doesn't abide by the JCPOA Iran can restart it's nuclear program! That mean by 2021 according to the JCPOA Iran can purchase whatever weapon it wants and Russia will be more than happy to provide them without having to fear U.S. sanctions!

FYI I'd take an upgreaded Su-30 or Su-37 over the F-35 any day!!!

 

[yavar]

Iran Panha overhauled 8 helicopters for IRGC, IRCS هشت بالگرد بازسازي شده سپاه و هلال احمر ايران

 

[PAUCI]

Yavar brother.I logged in just to make contact with you its Berislac from IMF.What happened to our forum??Can you contact me?

 

[yavar]

Yavar brother.I logged in just to make contact with you its Berislac from IMF.What happened to our forum??Can you contact me?

Hi brother . the IMF i think is finished . but i don't know really for sure .
i am here at this moment and you can follow my youtube chanel .
do you know any other forum like Bosnian forum which we can join