IRIAF | News and Discussions

[drmeson]

f-4 and f-14 are also old . , j-7 newer , f-5 oldest of all .the circus airplane pieces (J-7 m Su22, Mirage F1, F-5 ) must be retired and the money that will be saved must be into developing the next generation kowsar .when that become ready we can retire F-4, Mig-29 , and if its what i think it will be , hopefully even F-14 and Su-24 .
meanwhile we can replace these airplane with current generation Kowsar as light fighter and when next generation of kowsar become ready the current generation of kowsar can be phased into the role of advanced trainer for IRIAF and IRGCAF

60 x Kowsar-I and 10 x Kowsar-I Trainers can replace the entire prop fleet of the following:

- 23 x Mirage F-1Q/EQ/BQ, that have no Cyrano radar, let alone missiles it has no Pylons to carry missiles. It's a true prop fighter that IRIAF should use at Kish for fighter jet tourism to raise $. The plane has no RWR, no E-Warfare, TDL, or BVR.

- 43 x F-7N has a radar range of 30 KM with its puny Sy-80 radar. Its longest-range missile is 18 km ranging PL-7C which according to two authors use Iranian seekers because Chinese seekers failed. It has the highest crash rate in the IRIAF service. It has no RWR, no E-Warfare, no TDL, and No BVR.

- 60 x F-5E/F fleet has legacy APQ-153 radars that can track a F-4E size fighter at 34 km range. They have no e-warfare, Look down shoot down or BVR capability, and no TDL either. These planes should be dismantled and go into the formation of a repository of parts for the Kowsar-I fleet.

These ~130 airframes are a burden on IRIAF's budget and are only alive because of lobbyism by cult groups that make $ off maintenance, and overhaul of these jets. Same case I am suspecting will happen if SU-35S will replace F-4E/D and SU-24MK. Esp the resistance that will come from F-4E/D infrastructure runners in Iran. In case of war, they will be butchered in sky at the hands of EF-2000, Rafale, F-18E/F of the enemy. Their retirement will pave the way for saving $$ for following:

- F-14AM upgradations (40-45)
- MIG-29 upgradation to MIG-29M standard (23)
- Kowsar-I/II production (100+)
- SU-35S integration (66)
- Kaman-12/22, Fotros, Shahed-171 UCAVs (300) total fleet

A not so bad IRIAF if you ask me.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

f-4 and f-14 are also old . , j-7 newer , f-5 oldest of all .the circus airplane pieces (J-7 m Su22, Mirage F1, F-5 ) must be retired and the money that will be saved must be into developing the next generation kowsar .when that become ready we can retire F-4, Mig-29 , and if its what i think it will be , hopefully even F-14 and Su-24 .
meanwhile we can replace these airplane with current generation Kowsar as light fighter and when next generation of kowsar become ready the current generation of kowsar can be phased into the role of advanced trainer for IRIAF and IRGCAF

Hack, for God sake, F-14 is newer than Su-22 but they also have a tendency to fall. So your point is moot! Also how much money will be freed up by scrapping those museum pieces? Or are you suggesting we sell them? Developing the Kowsar is a dead end endeavour, it hasnt been used once in combat as far as I can see and theyre not even training in them. We have hit a wall with Kowsar and there is no way they are enough to go against anything Russian or Western! Although I agree we should be using these more if youre saying they are good, but whats the hold up?! If we can produce prototypes then we have the blue print to mass produce even first generation Kowsar, let alone Kowsar II. I still believe all this can be done alongside new purchases of Su-35, money and willingness to sell by Russia permitting.

 

[Hack-Hook]

60 x F-5E/F fleet has legacy APQ-153 radars that can track a F-4E size fighter at 34 km range. They have no e-warfare, Look down shoot down or BVR capability, and no TDL either. These planes should be dismantled and go into the formation of a repository of parts for the Kowsar-I fleet.

i think you are too generous by giving them tracking range on f-4 size airplane of 34km at the best the radar can be used up to 20km well unless they are facing a tanker airplane

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

- SU-35S integration (66)

Russian agent confirmed! Lol just kidding!

I suggested the same thing and got called a Russia worshipper. Now, Drmeson, if Iran were to not have those 66 Su-35, what would be your evaluation of our airforce, would it be the same, better or worse?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Hack, for God sake, F-14 is newer than Su-22 but they also have a tendency to fall. So your point is moot! Also how much money will be freed up by scrapping those museum pieces? Or are you suggesting we sell them? Developing the Kowsar is a dead end endeavour, it hasnt been used once in combat as far as I can see and theyre not even training in them. We have hit a wall with Kowsar and there is no way they are enough to go against anything Russian or Western! Although I agree we should be using these more if youre saying they are good, but whats the hold up?! If we can produce prototypes then we have the blue print to mass produce even first generation Kowsar, let alone Kowsar II. I still believe all this can be done alongside new purchases of Su-35, money and willingness to sell by Russia permitting.

Su-22 introduced 1970 , f-14 introduced 1974.
here there is a difference . f-14 need for maintenance . this is from 2003

The F-14 is currently the most expensive aircraft to operate in the Navy inventory, requiring 40 to 60 maintenance manhours per flight hour. For comparison, the F-18 Hornet requires only 20 hours of maintenance and the latest F-18E/F Super Hornet requires just 10 to 15 hours.

so now will you forgive me for that 4 year in the span of 50 year ?
by way the su-22s actually are newer , they were built in 80s and were handed over to Iraq airforces during the 8 year war .
all F-5, F-4 and F-14s were built during pahlavi time in 70s so no our f-14s are older than our su-22
about thej-7 i don't knew when they were built we get them in mid to late 80 but chaina start producing them from 66

Also how much money will be freed up by scrapping those museum pieces?

probably around 1/3rd of airforce budget, thats not important part , even if one cent is getting freed up thats one cent that is invested not wasted away

 

[drmeson]

i think you are too generous by giving them tracking range on f-4 size airplane of 34km at the best the radar can be used up to 20km well unless they are facing a tanker airplane

That is untouched APQ-153. The IRIAF F-5E under project Ofogh in the late 90s after Gen Sattari's death underwent upgradation of enhanced tracking range to recorded 34 KM. The antenna was changed.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Developing the Kowsar is a dead end endeavour, it hasnt been used once in combat as far as I can see and theyre not even training in them. We have hit a wall with Kowsar and there is no way they are enough to go against anything Russian or Western!

well sorry we didn't go to war yet, and the ones that are handed over to air force are part of air force inventory and see as much use as other air frame see ,

 

[drmeson]

Helicopters should be a tad easier to keep operational. But even when it comes to fighter jets, it doesn't mean the other 20-25 F-14 airframes are no longer flyable. They've just not been seen around by observers nor shown by authorities. Possibly they're in storage but able to be inducted if needed.

These numbers do no come from spotters only. Not every airframes of helis, fighters is operational is confirmed by following facts:

- IRIAF's official released photographs of serials (IRIAF happens to be one of the most camera-friendly AF in the entire world).

- IRIAF itself announces some type of legacy fighter being "overhauled" after years of dysfunctionality and returning to service. Just recently 2 x F-14A came to service that the official himself said was stored for decade+. If the entire fleet of stored airframes are operational how come we keep hearing official statements of airframes coming to service after decades?

- Deployed fighters are easily countable from satellite pics. IRIAF operates no underground or secret hidden facility. So what they have is visible in their facilites.

 

[drmeson]

because they wanted to hand Azadegan oil field to china for 20 year for the plane . if they wanted to use the money we have and is blocked in china i had no prolem with it . but handing one of our biggest oil field to them for 20 years , for some fighter seriously remaind me of Qajar era works.

Won't surprise me.

If words of critics are to be taken into consideration, Rohani's shitshow over the sacrifice of share in the Caspian sea was in return of a series of Russian EW platforms like Zhitel R330ZH, Avtobaza, and Karasuhka-4. All are in possession of IRGC and are lethal systems.

According to BT J-10C+JH-7 was a priority but IRIAF rejected both while the Chinese probably did not want the Azadegan field either.

I would say good riddance.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

well sorry we didn't go to war yet, and the ones that are handed over to air force are part of air force inventory and see as much use as other air frame see ,

We have plenty of terrorist on our borders we can take out, and it speaks volumes that our current fleet cant make it to Syria or Yemen without getting refused entry or shot down.

 

[SalarHaqq]

These numbers do no come from spotters only. Not every airframes of helis, fighters is operational is confirmed by following facts:

- IRIAF's official released photographs of serials (IRIAF happens to be one of the most camera-friendly AF in the entire world).

- IRIAF itself announces some type of legacy fighter being "overhauled" after years of dysfunctionality and returning to service. Just recently 2 x F-14A came to service that the official himself said was stored for decade+. If the entire fleet of stored airframes are operational how come we keep hearing official statements of airframes coming to service after decades?

- Deployed fighters are easily countable from satellite pics. IRIAF operates no underground or secret hidden facility. So what they have is visible in their facilites.

I meant able to be brought back into service when deemed necessary. I see no reason not to count these towards the total numbers.

 

[Hack-Hook]

We have plenty of terrorist on our borders we can take out, and it speaks volumed that our current fleet cant make it to Syria or Yemen without getting refused entry or shot down.

thats drones works and army aviation and IRGC aviation job , not air-force duty.

 

[drmeson]

I meant able to be brought back into service when deemed necessary. I see no reason not to count these towards the total numbers.

by definition, an AF's fleet is only its active-duty fighters or purposefully active-duty fighters in storage. Not the ones that are damaged, cannibalized, in non-flyable condition. Which is the case with IRIAF. It's not just us, RuAF itself has hundreds of fighters in non flyable condition in storage. They dont count either. I gave an example of MIG-23/27 in IRIAF possession, they can even be seen in dumpyards of Mehrabad. We cant count them since they are not active duty or operationalised.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Su-22 introduced 1970 , f-14 introduced 1974.
here there is a difference . f-14 need for maintenance . this is from 2003

so now will you forgive me for that 4 year in the span of 50 year ?
by way the su-22s actually are newer , they were built in 80s and were handed over to Iraq airforces during the 8 year war .
all F-5, F-4 and F-14s were built during pahlavi time in 70s so no our f-14s are older than our su-22
about thej-7 i don't knew when they were built we get them in mid to late 80 but chaina start producing them from 66

probably around 1/3rd of airforce budget, thats not important part , even if one cent is getting freed up thats one cent that is invested not wasted away

Doesnt matter, Su-22 is just a modded Su-17 which is early 60s technology! Even Mig-25 is more advanced! F-14 was a more modern jet than both Su-22 and mig-25! So, by your own admission, western jets are garbage because they are newer than Su-22 and they still crash. They both need maintenance which neither Su-22 or F-14 get from their relative native manufacturers.

Doesn't matter when it was built, the technology is frozen in time! F-14 is newer and better than su-22. Thats like saying a 2022 VW Polo is a better car than a 1980s Porsche! Lol Only airframe rigidity is better which counts for nothing when you're blown to bits with a missile!

Without doubt we need to get rid of those older jets, but the question is where do we put the money. This is the issue.

 

[SalarHaqq]

by definition, an AF's fleet is only its active-duty fighters or purposefully active-duty fighters in storage. Not the ones that are damaged, cannibalized, in non-flyable condition. Which is the case with IRIAF. It's not just us, RuAF itself has hundreds of fighters in non flyable condition in storage. They dont count either. I gave an example of MIG-23/27 in IRIAF possession, they can even be seen in dumpyards of Mehrabad. We cant count them since they are not active duty or operationalised.

There's a difference between those that can be made operational on more or less short notice and those which can't.