IRIAF | News and Discussions

[shadihassan28]

you are the one that can understand we are talking about a bolt break , a blade dislocate , fuel leak and..... when something become old it more likely to find fault and stop working and has nothing to do wit how advance it is .

you yourself asked for it

hail new Iranian transport helicopter
AH-1J

hail Iran new Transport helicopter Toofan

hail Iran new transport helicopter Shahed-216

hail Iran bell-214 with no ground attack capability

Looks really good is that built from the ground up or heavily upgraded but either way does look good

 

[Hack-Hook]

Yeah you're a bit late with this news, Hack gave us this update and concluded that all Russian jets are not fit for purchase i.e. because an old Su-22 crashed we shouldn't buy Su-35. Alhamdulillah the pilot is safe and maneuvered safely!

lol , the list i made of the airplane that need retired right now was F-5 , Su-22, J-7, F1 only one russian airplane and as i recall in that post i made no mention on any russian plan worth or not worth buying . all is in your mind

i made this post and

when i say they must retire the circus airplanes and use the money that will be saved on their maintenance by doing so on kowsar development , you guys say I'm traitor .
one of the su-22 crashed .

خبرگزاری فارس - وقوع سانحه برای یک فروند سوخو 22 سپاه در هرمزگان

روابط عمومی نیروی هوافضای سپاه از وقوع سانحه برای یک فروند هواپیمای سوخو ۲۲ این نیرو به دلیل نقص فنی در هرمزگان خبر داد.

www.farsnews.ir

and somebody like an insecure child made this post

Su-22 is very old, but while were at it here are some crashes involving newer Western and Chinese jets in Iran:

F-4:

Iranian F-4 Crashes, Crew Lost - Flight Journal

Aviation History | History of Flight | Aviation History Articles, Warbirds, Bombers, Trainers, Pilots | Iranian F-4 Crashes, Crew Lost

www.flightjournal.com

Iran's Air Force Just Lost a Fighter Jet: U.S. Made F-4 Phantom Just Went Down

Here is what we know, so far.

nationalinterest.org

F-14:

Iran Fighter Jet Crashes after Engine Fails, Pilots Survive

An Iranian fighter plane crashed near the central city of Isfahan on Saturday after its engine failed, but both pilots survived, media reported. The pilots were taken to a local hospital, the official IRNA news agency said. It said there was a technical failure in the engine of the Grumman F-14...

english.aawsat.com

Report: Iran Fighter Crash Kills both Crew

An Iranian U.S.-manufactured F-14 fighter jet crashed early on Thursday minutes after takeoff killing both crew, the Fars news agency reported. "The pilot and the co-pilot of an F-14 plane that crashed this morning have been martyred," the news...

www.naharnet.com

J-7:

Two Pilots Dead As Iranian Fighter Jet Crashes During Training Mission

Two Iranian Air Force pilots were killed when their F-7 fighter jet crashed during a training mission near the city of Naeen in central Iran.

www.rferl.org

F-5

Iranian fighter jet crashes near school in Tabriz, killing three people

Two pilots, one civilian on the ground killed in accident; decades of sanctions make Iran's aging fleet hard to maintain

www.timesofisrael.com

Iran TV: 'Technical problem' on fighter jet kills 2 pilots

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — An Iranian fighter jet on Tuesday developed a “technical problem” that killed both of the aircraft's pilots, state TV reported.

apnews.com

These are aircraft that are modded and looked after by Iran, but they crash as well. So much for your western jets.

and you have the audacity to make such base less claim
by the way Russian airplane are worthless for us as their radars and e-warfare system are old and outdated . they built a good airplane called Mig-35 and then they went and dumbed it down and made it useless against modern aircraft by downgrading its RADAR

 

[drmeson]

make it one sit airplane , redesign the casing of those equipment , there be many room and if you use a nonafterburning engine equal in size of ws-13 then you actually can save another 80cm there , let add another 1m to that for back cabin and you have 1.85cm of free space you can install that in its upper front section , use the rest for other things

Kowsar-I already has an F-5E airframe version too.

Why all these gymnastics when we do know that airframe redesign is a must because of the different weight distribution of new engine?

i say why build it larger , whats the problem if it remain a light fighter , if they use the 2/3rd of back cabin for fuel , that would be more than 1200 liter of fuel or more than all three external fuel tank an f-5 can carry , another 1/3rd of the back cabin space can be used for other equipment and sensor
also there is another part that can be removed from kowsar and its space put to better use and that is its cannon . so i believe there is enough room if we want.


by the way i made small mistake two owj produce 44kn with after burner not 36kn but its still mean an non after-burning ws-13 like engine produce 30% more trust than two after-burning OWJ

You did not answer my question. To drag along a 9-10 ton empty weight airframe to 1.4 Mach, (French Rafale) at supercruise, you need a 22K lbf thrust with 6-7:1 T/W ratio dry.

Kowsar-I's current empty weight is 4.4 tons. If they enlarge the airframe, install a larger radar, IRST, refueling probe, twin VS etc then the weight might increase to 6-7 tons empty. Even if you use AL-31 equivalent the dry thrust will be 19K lbs with a T/W ratio of 4.9:1. I am afraid such a plane will barely be able to hit 1.6 Mach with a climb rate of ~40,000 feet/min. Not bad but not very good either.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

you are the one that can understand we are talking about a bolt break , a blade dislocate , fuel leak and..... when something become old it more likely to find fault and stop working and has nothing to do wit how advance it is .

you yourself asked for it

hail new Iranian transport helicopter
AH-1J

hail Iran new Transport helicopter Toofan

hail Iran new transport helicopter Shahed-216

hail Iran bell-214 with no ground attack capability

Reliability is secondary when it is 10 times more likely to get blown out of the skies. Besides 5-10 years difference in airframe age is negligible in terms of how well Iran keeps these things in sky. Don't let these sad news of crashes take away of how incredibly impressive that Iran has managed to get them operational this far. Regardless su-22 is older technology to F-14. End of discussion!

Lol I never said Iran doesnt make helicopters, I said Iran army aviation is not an air attack outfit. Only our AIRFORCE, emphasis on the word FORCE, can do the job, which they didnt in the case of Daesh, or any other border skirmishes we have had! Besides, I still dont think our bells are as good as an American made one, because we dont have 24/7 technical support from Bell any more. Unlike if we were to purchase Russian choppers! But that's a different argument.

 

[Hack-Hook]

SU-35S will use its in-built ECM jamming to save itself from AWG-9+Fakour but to do that it will have to stay in azimuth of AWG-9+ of F-14AM. Thus, allowing the F-14AM to track 10-15 m2 RCS airframe of Flanking and fire 10-12 Fakour-90 from max range (150 KM) and gain altitude for SARH illumination. Now SU-35 will have to get closer to use their own R-77-1 (100 KM) all the while also dodging, jamming, and chaffing Fakour-90s. Or they can flank out and spread.

I don't use missiles at max range , they loose their kinetic power , in fact i'd be glad if they do it at max range , iy just made it easier evade them or just turn back and let missile fall out of sky or it make several course adjustment and loose all its kinetic power

While this is happening and SU-35 are busy jamming F-14AM or saving themselves from some 10-12 incoming Fakour-90 .... 2 x Kowsar-I can lead the charge with 2x Karrar from Flanks using terrain masking, suddenly popping up around front most Flankers within WVR range to carry on ECM+WVR attack with Azarakhsh (10 Missiles). IRBIS-E will have a very hard time tracking a Karrar or Kowsar from distance in terrain masking. Sukhois will shoot Kowsars and Karrars but will themselves be shot down by Fakours-90.

why not use kowsar e-warfare ability to make effectiveness of those ibris-E lower while we keep them back with the f-14s and let Karrar do the attack while flying as low as possible . and by the way the number of karrar in your scenario is a little low, the wingman is supposed to be more than the master aircraft not less than them

 

[shadihassan28]

lol , the list i made of the airplane that need retired right now was F-5 , Su-22, J-7, F1 only one russian airplane and as i recall in that post i made no mention on any russian plan worth or not worth buying . all is in your mind

i made this post and


and somebody like an insecure child made this post

and you have the audacity to make such base less claim
by the way Russian airplane are worthless for us as their radars and e-warfare system are old and outdated . they built a good airplane called Mig-35 and then they went and dumbed it down and made it useless against modern aircraft by downgrading its RADAR

Can I make @Hack-Hook ignore people because all they want is attention I’m going to listen @Stryker1982 hes just being hostile to be hostile And as soon as I post this he will come at me again just going to ignore people this site should be to just enjoy ideas does anyone believe the Iranian military is making notes on this site great ideas or not they have their own plans

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

lol , the list i made of the airplane that need retired right now was F-5 , Su-22, J-7, F1 only one russian airplane and as i recall in that post i made no mention on any russian plan worth or not worth buying . all is in your mind

i made this post and


and somebody like an insecure child made this post

and you have the audacity to make such base less claim
by the way Russian airplane are worthless for us as their radars and e-warfare system are old and outdated . they built a good airplane called Mig-35 and then they went and dumbed it down and made it useless against modern aircraft by downgrading its RADAR

I called you a traitor because of your refusal to buy available Russian jets that are more modern, reliable, and proven than Kowar or whatever we have! So you agree F-14, F-5, F4 etc are all circus as well? And why can't that money be used towards purchasing new jets? This is why we're here arguing the toss.

Russian jet's are quiter with their restrictive datalink, and have better radar systems than what we have. Again it is the best we can get our hands on! Something you can't get through your head!

 

[drmeson]

lol , the list i made of the airplane that need retired right now was F-5 , Su-22, J-7, F1 only one russian airplane and as i recall in that post i made no mention on any russian plan worth or not worth buying . all is in your mind

i made this post and


and somebody like an insecure child made this post

and you have the audacity to make such base less claim
by the way Russian airplane are worthless for us as their radars and e-warfare system are old and outdated . they built a good airplane called Mig-35 and then they went and dumbed it down and made it useless against modern aircraft by downgrading its RADAR

With following factors

- $$
- Local infrastruture
- IRIAF experience

the best airplane to be procured from Russia is in fact MIG-29M/MIG-35.

Russian electronics have always been step below western ones. F-15 vs Su-27, F-16 vs MIG-29, F-14 vs MIG-31. Russian radars, and electronics have always been lesser in capability. It makes sense too Russia never had the diversified manpower that west had nor it had the big corps money at its disposal. It was like one nation taking on two continents.

Saying that Golden opportunity for Iran right now is that Russia needs us and we can have TOT's and purchases. I say leadership should go for 24+66 = 88 x SU-35S for 10 Billion USD. These are not some great A2A fighters, they have huge RCS, less capable radars but they are ... deterrence that IRIAF currently lacks. A Fleet made of 300 fighters, F-14AM, MIG-29M, Kowsar-I/II, SU-35S, 300 x MALE UCAVS is enough to deal with regional foes.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Can I make @Hack-Hook ignore people because all they want is attention I’m going to listen @Stryker1982 hes just being hostile to be hostile And as soon as I post this he will come at me again just going to ignore people this site should be to just enjoy ideas does anyone believe the Iranian military is making notes on this site great ideas or not they have their own plans

No you can't tell grown adults who they can and cant speak to! I think youre the one who wants attention because nobody here was talking to you. Sometimes adults get heated and passionate! I know you love seeing Iranians struggle but you don't have to get involved! There is an ignore button if I'm being too much!

 

[drmeson]

Can I make @Hack-Hook ignore people because all they want is attention I’m going to listen @Stryker1982 hes just being hostile to be hostile And as soon as I post this he will come at me again just going to ignore people this site should be to just enjoy ideas does anyone believe the Iranian military is making notes on this site great ideas or not they have their own plans

chill buddy, its the internet.

You can post whatever you want on topic and if someone misbehaves, report to mods.

 

[drmeson]

I don't use missiles at max range , they loose their kinetic power , in fact i'd be glad if they do it at max range , iy just made it easier evade them or just turn back and let missile fall out of sky or it make several course adjustment and loose all its kinetic power

If they do that, the chase planes in terrain masking trajectory like Kowsar-I +Karrar can easily track them from the rear and fire IR seekers at them from 40 KM.

why not use kowsar e-warfare ability to make effectiveness of those ibris-E lower while we keep them back with the f-14s and let Karrar do the attack while flying as low as possible.

By flying F-14AM low you are underutilizing the speed and threat of Fakour-90. Also if the terrain is mountainous the SARH illumination can only be one from high altitude. Which is why F-14AM needs to be high up. IRIAF used these tactics in the war too.

Kowsar-I can jam IRBIS-E and track SU-35 from terrain masking trajectory as well. Remember Su-35 has a RCS of 10-15 m2 so Grifo-346 is tracking it at 93 KM from where it can launch an ECCM attack at it while IRBIS-E has a track range of 100 KM for a F-5 airframe (~3 m2) so both will track eachother around same time except that SU-35S are being fired upon by 10-12 Fakour-90.

This scenario tells us why the world moved towards smaller low RCS planes with the longest possible radar track ranges and BVR missiles. F-18E/F, F-16V, EF-2000, JAS-39E, Rafale, J-10C ... no professional Airforce wants huge RCS trucks from 1970s-80s anymore. We will hit a jackpot too if Kowsar-II is developed with <1 m2 RCS.

and by the way the number of karrar in your scenario is a little low, the wingman is supposed to be more than the master aircraft not less than them

I was making things more spicy. Theoretically, we can get 10 x Karrars launched with 2 x Azarakhsh WVR on each.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Kowsar-I already has an F-5E airframe version too.

Why all these gymnastics when we do know that airframe redesign is a must because of the different weight distribution of new engine?

the f5-E air-frame version is shorter than f5-F version , what i mean is get f5-F version airframe and make it single sit in kowsar-2

You did not answer my question. To drag along a 9-10 ton empty weight airframe to 1.4 Mach, (French Rafale) at supercruise, you need a 22K lbf thrust with 6-7:1 T/W ratio dry.

depend on the design of the air-frame a JAS-39 can super-cruise up to 1.2mach with two missile at 54kn and around 9 ton of weight (Airplane , missiles and fuel) Rafale needed that power because they test it with 4 missile and one drop tank
so if jas-39 can do that why not f-5 which is famous for its fast cruise speed

by the way my question is if we don't change F-5F exterior design , remove back sit and use it for fuel and the equipment we want .and add 30% to the thrust , why it cant fly at mach 1.9 instead 1.6 ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

By flying F-14AM low you are underutilizing the speed and threat of Fakour-90. Also if the terrain is mountainous the SARH illumination can only be one from high altitude. Which is why F-14AM needs to be high up. IRIAF used these tactics in the war too.

no let kowsar and F-14 fly high but always stay at limit range of Su-35 engagement windows , and use their e-warfare to keep those su-35 busy , meanwhile send those Karrar toward the su-35 at lowest possible altitude . and let them do the first strike .

Kowsar-I can jam IRBIS-E and track SU-35 from terrain masking trajectory as well. Remember Su-35 has a RCS of 10-15 m2 so Grifo-346 is tracking it at 93 KM from where it can launch an ECCM attack at it while IRBIS-E has a track range of 100 KM for a F-5 airframe (~3 m2) so both will track eachother around same time except that SU-35S are being fired upon by 10-12 Fakour-90.

i say keep those Fakour-90 or fire 1-2 just jam those IBRIS-E the best you can and let the karrar surprise them

 

[drmeson]

the f5-E air-frame version is shorter than f5-F version , what i mean is get f5-F version airframe and make it single sit in kowsar-2

I think the length change is because of nose section not the fuselage. Even if you remove the back seat, the space made will become a bone of contention between:

- IRST, Jammers
- Fuel
-Afterburner Turbofan

depend on the design of the air-frame a JAS-39 can super-cruise up to 1.2mach with two missile at 54kn and around 9 ton of weight (Airplane , missiles and fuel) Rafale needed that power because they test it with 4 missile and one drop tank
so if jas-39 can do that why not f-5 which is famous for its fast cruise speed

JAS-39 low performance supercruise is the prime example of what I was saying before. The plane's empty weight is 6.5 tons which is what Kowsar-II will be around as well. The Volvo RM12 has barely 5:1 T/W (dry) so the supercruise is low rated barely pushing the aircraft to 1.4 mach. While what you are targetting is a 1.8 Mach with a 50K feet/min climb, high turn rate etc for ~6.5 tons airframe with AL-31 like turbofan which has same T/W of ~5:1

by the way my question is if we don't change F-5F exterior design , remove back sit and use it for fuel and the equipment we want .and add 30% to the thrust , why it cant fly at mach 1.9 instead 1.6 ?

First calculate the empty weight of this design and I will tell you why

 

[Hack-Hook]

First calculate the empty weight of this design and I will tell you why

let say we don't touch the aerodynamic and it be roughly the same weight and for newer e-warfare let add 100kg and another 900kg of more internal fuel , but reduce at least two hundred to 3 hundred by removing the back cabin .
by the way does we lack length in the nose of f-5 or its actually the width of the nose that make the problem , i say remove the cannon and its ammo , it both reduce weight and make more room for the radar by this we probably can save 100kg by removing cannon, ammo and old radar and install a new one about engine weight two J-85 weight about 620kg rd-33 weight about 1ton , remove its afterburner , it probably weight about 700-750kg that mean adding 100-150kg to the final weight
so my guess is right now kowsar with fuel weight around 7100 the new design will be 7700-7900 kg for JAS-39 that weight is around 9100kg