IRIAF | News and Discussions

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

My own assumption ... at best OWJ/IRSSJO can field out something like this, based upon published claims:

Airframe: 60-70% locally built, 30-40% parts from some cannibalized or damaged airframes, black market parts
AWG-9+: Digitalised local processor unit + 834 local parts are being made in Iranian companies which is reducing the weight of the unit drastically and bringing the search range to 350+ km. They can or may already have added a TDL in the processing unit.
Nav-Comm: New INS/TACAN confirmed
TF-30-P414 Turbofan: I believe this will also be a local built parts + overhauled parts
WVR Missiles: Azarakhsh all aspect CCD seeker WVR 100 % indigenous, we have seen it.
LR-BVR Missiles: Fakour-90 SARH+ECCM 100 % indigenous, we have seen it. Maghsoud ARH LR-BVR for 200 KM is still in testing, we have seen pics

So they may show a Saegeh-I/II like version of a F-14A but the problem exists that for mass production of this unit, leadership will give no money for IRIAF. They will show us one assembly line with production rate of some 2-3 units per year at best. Kowsar-I, F-14AM, MIG-29 MLU+upgradation all are victim of lack of $$.

They already manufacture AESA radars for air defence systems. Why not apply the same know how into designing a module that can fit in the F-14M's nose cone?

F-14 has a HUGE RCS. I do not have the source but assumption is that it wont be below 10 m2 because other fighters of similar role, generation and size, shape like F-15, Tornado, F-4, SU-27 have 10-25 m2 RCS. No matter what you do, you can not bring this plane to 4++ generation. That domain belongs to smaller and lighter EF-2000, F/A-18EF, Rafale who all have <1 m2 RCS and are literal electronic laboratories flying in the sky to blind, and deceive the enemy instead of winning speed and thrust contest that aircrafts from 70s were built for.

Even the F-15E and F-15EX have a massive RCS, dear brother. Yet the usaf is going ahead with upgrades and rolling out new block fighters on the F-15 design with improved engines, avionics, sensors and armament. Don't be so quick to disregard the F-14 in an interceptor role - all we need is to provide it an AESA radar, an advanced avionics/EW suite and in time an engine with 125kN afterburner thrust and it will provide an aerial shield that nothing else can for three decades, at least.

In the one circle turn, F-14 designs are at a disadvantage compared to the F/A-18 but then again, as I said before, more powerful engines in 125kN thrust category and 3D thrust vectoring will bring it up to speed.

Just to purchase a token force of 24 x SU-35S we will need 4-5 Billion USD. These planes will :

- 10-15 m2 RCS
- IRBIS-E PESA cant track small fighters above 100 km. Imagine the plane taking on EF-2000, Rafale armed with metoer LR-BVR
- TKS-2 or later TDL wont allow integration with Iranian TDL as they are limited to Flanker-Flanker
- R-77-1 BVR missile it will carry has a range of ~105-110 KM so an F-14AM will have to fly along with it to save it from BVR attack using its own LR-BVR and AWG-9.
- 85 million USD/unit.

For same amount of money Iran can procure

- 40 additional MIG-29M/35
- 23 IRIAF MIG-29 MLUed and upgraded
- 200 RD-33MK Turbofans for Kowsar-II
- 400 R-77-1 BVR
- 400 R-74 WVR

This will mean we will have a force of ~75 MIG-29M/MIG-35 + 160 Kowsar-I/II all armed with modern BVR, WVR + 40 F-14A/AM . An IRIAF to take on the regional enemies.

Used in conjunction with our IADS, invading bandits will be preoccupied with SAM batteries AND agile Flankers on their tails. All that's required is interoperability and networking with the Air Defence Force IN CASE the PESA fails to get a lock in time and they can keep warning of a lock or a missile launch.

It can take evasive action accordingly and either use it's own BVR option or get in close to engage with Fox 1 and Fox 2 missiles. Dogfighting is where Su-27 and onwards really shine and I don't think even an F-22 will have it easy at such close ranges.

Russia will never sell you RD-33MK with technology transfers. In time, that will become more of a burden than anything else. A license to modify Mig-29s with indigenous packages would be nifty, though.

IRIAF itself should be handed over to MOD+IRGC strategists so that

- they can pressure leadership to release some $$ to save this force from being a victim of missile, navy, UCAV, space program
- bargain with Russia for MIG/SU procurement, IRGC has better relations with Russians (SU-22 upgradation, SU-25 purchase, T-90SM purchase, interoperability in Syria)

I totally agree. I'm like Mohammad Reza "Pahlavi" in one aspect - he was obsessed with a strong air force and so am I.

Thankfully, apart from this and a few other personal quirks, that's where our similarities end.

Among the 20% disagreements I have with the Revolution, one is lack of investment in the IRIAF.

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

What if KSA goes on a purchasing spree from China in next 5 years and ends up with DF-17 HGVs and LACMs to target Iranian IADS ? Chinese provided them with DF-17 and are building nuclear reactors in their country already.

This is one of the reasons I hate ch*na and ch*nese.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Buk M3 was operational in 2013, 3rd Khordad was operational in 2014. You do the math.

again introduction is different by armed force getting it

SA-27 GOLLUM / Buk-M3

www.globalsecurity.org

russia planned to hand it to army late 2015 early 2016 not in 2013

Kheyli khari!

maybe yourself , after all heathen consider everyone a heathen . or you also consider that being religion not part of our literature

No, I dont buy your exaggerated claims that finished products are worse than prototype. But even if that were the case that just proves domestic versions will always be better than export which is the standard globally. Again you bring up China and the west. That's like saying "why are there poor people when rich people exist?". That's the level of your brain power, va gandesh dare dar miyad.

again you dreamed something i never said

Yes, money is limited if we were to follow your braindead 100% domestic route in a meaningful timeframe where Iran can defend itself and money is also limited to buy solely foreign. However Iran has the money for a few squadrons of modern Russian jets, which wont be enough to defeat US but is a big improvement. The reason why this is isnt happening is because of the ToT issue and whether or not Russia can produce enough for export considering it is in the middle of a proxy war with the entire west. In the meantime, money will go towards missiles and drones, enough to block out the sun!

that a few squadran is 4-5 milliard dollar , what is the yearly money allowed to air force.
just do the math yourself

You equated a few shoddy arms deals and UNSC sanctions from 10 years ago, which dont exist any more btw, with Israel killing Iranian scientists and threatening Iran with nukes. You hate Iran that much that the blood of your countrymen dont matter, you only worry about why Iran is getting stronger via Russia, an enemy of the west ironically, and not through Israel and the west?!

you seems to forget the history and your brain is incapable of understanding i never supported israel but said i don't except Israel be friend with us but Russia which you claim is our strategic partner i except act as a partner . by the way show me evidence that Russia changed its ways if you can?

Why do you worship the west who want Iran to be weak, subservient, morally bankrupt and God-less? You're just another cheek of the same arse. Now you're worshipping Israel.

you again went mental and start hallucinating and say i did things that i never did

He is son-in-law of zibakalam the crazy

well , seems your guys strategy is to just blabbering nonsense , when you can't answer questions.

 

[drmeson]

They already manufacture AESA radars for air defence systems. Why not apply the same know how into designing a module that can fit in the F-14M's nose cone?

because the company or sub-group that produces the ground GaN AESA Search/Track antenna is not contracted by the fighter producing company to produce the airborne radar using that tech. They instead awarded the contract to another company or subgroup which has another expertise. This is where lobbyism and lack of central command comes in.

This is what Tom Cooper and BT have been saying. Countries who go through revolutions and wars always have this problem where central command structure is ruined and tiny cult like groups are formed who start pushing their own projects for funding. Read about USSR vs US weapons production in cold war era. In IRIAF we currently have the following projects and group:

OWJ/IRSSJO
F-14AM upgradation
F-14A overhaul
OWJ Turbojets

Babaei Missile Industries
Fakour-90, Maghsoud LRBVR
Fattar
Azarakhsh

IRIAF Depot level upgradation
Mirage F1
F-7N
F-5E/F

HESA+IEI
Kowsar-I
Saegheh-I/II
Yasin
F-4E/D upgradation

IAI/SAHA group
Tolue Turbofans
Jashesh-700 Turbofans

Multiple other public/private companies
PGMs
Spare parts

................ So even if you retire a platform somewhere some group will lose their job so they wont let it retire through lobbyism, instead will present some weird idea to keep it going like F-7N Project Erfanian turning it to JL-9. Or if you award money to one group for making a local fighter, rest of the groups will be up the azz of the leadership to stop that from happening because they are deprived of the $ while the competitor is winning it (Words of T Cooper). I wish the next SL of Iran is a tough-*** military commander who could ruin someone for parallel projects and $ wastage (words of BT).

IRGC is much more successful because call them crude or radicals but they have a central command structure and people are idealist who do not care about personal glory. They have dedicated officers who work towards one goal in conjunction with eachother. Which is why our missile power rose at an accelerated rate.

Even the F-15E and F-15EX have a massive RCS, dear brother.

Which is why USAF use F-35 and F-22 as front line interceptor aircrafts for last 10 years since the advent of modern radars and HIMADS. USN uses F/A-18EF.

Yet the usaf is going ahead with upgrades and rolling out new block fighters on the F-15 design with improved engines, avionics, sensors and armament.

Yes but as an attack aircraft that can muscle down the enemy ground forces and if need be can fire long range AIM-120C/D too. Its firepower is too big that somehow cancels it high RCS problem in modern day combat scene. Same case with F-14, who despite being a maintainance hell with large RCS can still muscle down an enemy invading group of 3-4 fighters just because of its long range search through AWG-9/APG-71 and AIM-54/Fakour-90.

Don't be so quick to disregard the F-14 in an interceptor role

I have not disregarded F-14. I was the one who started posting its upgradation package info here, even created a slide.

- all we need is to provide it an AESA radar, an advanced avionics/EW suite and in time an engine with 125kN afterburner thrust and it will provide an aerial shield that nothing else can for three decades, at least.

Not exactly. F-14 will lose its advantage if PGCC gets meteor BVRAAM on its Rafale and EF-2000. The missile has more range than Fakour-90 and EF-2000 or Rafale can see a F-14A/AM much much earlier to track and fire at it then AWG-9 of F-14 can do in reverse to EF-2000, Rafale. The day they get F-35, its game over for F-14. We will rather need low RCS e-warfare jets to counter that threat.

World is moving towards tiny RCS stealth fighters with long range radars, BVR missiles and electronic warfare suites. F-35, JAS-39, EF-2000, Rafale, F-16V, F/A-18EF do not rely upon their speeds or engine thrusts, they rely upon their low RCS and radar, e-warfare while we are stuck in F-4 bomb truck mentality measuring engine thrusts.

In the one circle turn, F-14 designs are at a disadvantage compared to the F/A-18 but then again, as I said before, more powerful engines in 125kN thrust category and 3D thrust vectoring will bring it up to speed.

At best we can "assume" that BT is right and a local TF30-P414 has been created. So that will be the biggest achievement in fighter size turbofan domain Iranian engineers have so far achieved. Iran does not have the TVC tech at that level. We do have demonstrated TVC in

- Kickstages of SLVs
- Terminal stages of missiles
- SAM (Bavar-373)

Used in conjunction with our IADS, invading bandits will be preoccupied with SAM batteries AND agile Flankers on their tails. All that's required is interoperability and networking with the Air Defence Force IN CASE the PESA fails to get a lock in time and they can keep warning of a lock or a missile launch.

MIG-29M/35 can do the job for 25-35 Million USD/Unit what SU-35S will do in 85 Million USD. We know MIG like the back of our hand, we dont know Flanker.

Russia will never sell you RD-33MK with technology transfers.

And you are assuming they will sell SU-35S?

I totally agree. I'm like Mohammad Reza "Pahlavi" in one aspect - he was obsessed with a strong air force and so am I.

Thankfully, apart from this and a few other personal quirks, that's where our similarities end.

Among the 20% disagreements I have with the Revolution, one is lack of investment in the IRIAF.

Shahi Iran had no missile force. IRI has probably the world's 3rd or 4th largest Missile arsenal. Israeli Intel recently concluded that Iranian missile capabilities have gone far ahead of DPRK and Pakistan now. I will post the link.

None the less IRIAF needs to survive otherwise IADS will be stressed out. Esp if Chinese sell their soul to KSA again and our enemies start procuring low RCS fighter armed with long range SOWs.

This is one of the reasons I hate ch*na and ch*nese.

Why blame them ? why not blame the people who could not avail the Chinese market option ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

I've no desire to read zionist propaganda. I leave that to you if it inspires you so much.

show me proof from Hezbollah
when your situation become hard and knew you are wrong you say that

And I was talking about when Hezbollah smashed Merkavas using their Kornets. Those multiple Merkavas weren't incapacitated by Hezbollah's other anti-tank weapon, the... RPG (yes, another Russian-designed weapon)!

in 2006 370 thank deployed from them 52 hit by atgm , RPG and IEDs . 21 of those 52 recieved enough damage to be pulled out of battle 5 deemed un-repairable (2 Merkavas MkII, 1 Merkava MkIII, 2 Merkavas MkIV).
One of the destroyed MkII and one of the destroyed MkIV were hit by IEDs, the rest were lost due to ATGM fire. by the way during the war 18 Merkava MK4 was hit by ATGM and only one destroyed with no death to the troop inside , the other destroyed MK-4 was hit by an IED and in that case there was loss of troop
this is the one that destroyed by IED , you can guess how much explossive used

by the way that was 2006 , after that they reinforced their tanks in 2014 non of the atgm fired by Palestinian could penetrate the tanks

thats the official report , if you have any evidence contrary to that . i be glad to see it . that will be reassuring to me because in future our allies and troops must face those tanks again and i hope they be prepared for them
you knew after 2006 they added extra belly armor to those tanks

they added trophy to the tanks

that goes your wonder kornets

Directly benefiting from lessons learnt by examining the Nebo.

lesson from something they didn't had access to and was designed for another scenario . as always you never stop belittling Iranian achievement and glorifying Russian ones

Given its high degree of self-sufficiency, a country like Iran won't be placing orders for arms it sees no benefit in, with benefit being most often determined in terms of how useful these items are for the indigenization of technology. Proof's always in the pudding in this regard.

and iran didn't see any benefit from russia on this regard to put order there , we already could produce our radars

Strategic-level partnership on a certain number of geopolitical dossiers.

And unlike what you're implying, Iran has not been wasting funds on imported armaments she has no requirement for.

yeah atgm and AK-103 according to you .what iran get and needed was in late 90s and early 2000 after that russia rarely gave us anything and what they gave us were not significant at all
all we builtwas due to hard work of our scientist and what we could get our hands on around the middle-east

Could have had multiple concurring causes other than supposedly inherent flaws to the SAM system. Moreover Iran never published a technically detailed account on how the incident came about, so your speculative assertion tainted with anti-Russian bias is disingenuous.

again trying to hide the defects in Russian equipment
the cause was clear the sam re-positioned there , the operator forget to set new north south axis and the sam itself could not point to that as a result the operator taught the airplane come from the opposite direction . there are many report on that .

And that's also why the S-300 continues to be fielded by Islamic Iran. Because it's a reliable and efficient item which will keep playing its own dedicated role within the Iranian IADS for years to come.

we field s-200 , we field s-125 , we field hawk , ..... we field F-7 and toothless F-1
the reason we field it is because we have it . its inferior to 15th khordad, 3th khordad and Bavar-373

Qasem Soleimani is a Syrian general now, sure. Also the third source is reporting earlier sales to Iran.

no the shell were given to the forces in Syria not Iran and was not used in designing basir .

Every Russian radar Iran spent money on. Iranian planners know what to invest in, they won't ask anyone on this forum for their opinion or permission.

As well as every Belarusian, read Russian front company-supplied one.

yeah sure . thats why only half the system recieved

By that faulty logic, Iran could have simply gone for the alternatives Russia was offering, rather than pressing them to deliver the S-300PM variant. No, it's not natural to use something one doesn't need. Rationally thinking entities won't do such a thing. Iran could have sold them off to a third party if she just thought they're trash.

the system was not needed at the time and antey 2500 was not accepted because Iran have plans for bavar-373 also antey-2500 shine more in anti ballistic mode compared to pm series and Iran don't face as much threat in that regard compared to enemy aircraft . another case of Russian want to sabotage us, we buy something and they insist on delivering something we didn't need , 10 years late

No I don't. But I'm also highlighting the way in which you rationalized their enmity by suggesting Iran is sharing part of the blame.

we sharing the enmity as much as they are our enemy we also are their enemy and will stop at nothing short of their destruction , are you claiming Iran will stop being Israel enemy if tomorrow Israel say we want to be Iran friends ? do you really have such low opinion on Iran foreign policy , are you consider us so naive and fickle

Don't remember "justifying" any Russian wrongdoing against Iran. As said, you appear to be having a slight comprehension issue at this point.

but you say we most forget what they did and abandon domestic production in favor of buying from them

This right here is the appropriate approach towards Russia:

Also a rapid look at your commenting history will illustrate that measured against the way you speak about an enemy (i.e. the zionist entity), your views about Russia are more akin to what pious people tend to think of Iblis himself (may the Almighty's curse be upon him).

and how i stated we must be toward Israel ? can you elaborate that and point to exact post i said that

Only someone who doesn't properly understand what I wrote, could possibly alter its meaning in such a way. Or perhaps an intellectually dishonest one, but I prefer to be optimistic.

also Only someone who doesn't properly understand what I wrote about nature of Iran and Israel relation, could possibly alter its meaning in such a way. Or perhaps an intellectually dishonest one, but I prefer to be optimistic.

Yeah, but one tidbit in that sentence was implicitly supposing zionist hostility is a reaction to Iranian policy. If you had half that level of clemency for a partner, Russia, it'd be more acceptable.

you just dreaming and can never find anywhere i support them .

 

[Hack-Hook]

200 RD-33MK Turbofans for Kowsar-II

if you want to go that route and get a foreign engine another route is ws-13e as it has somehow better metric . but i still say the money must be spend on domestic turbofan engine

They already manufacture AESA radars for air defence systems. Why not apply the same know how into designing a module that can fit in the F-14M's nose cone?

miniaturization and awarding contracts

 

[drmeson]

if you want to go that route and get a foreign engine another route is ws-13e as it has somehow better metric . but i still say the money must be spend on domestic turbofan engine

Yes. I mentioned RD-33MK based upon the Russian option. If we talk of China then a whole new plethora of options exist for the entire IRI military.

Whatever Iran procures should be CDK atleast or TOT.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

again introduction is different by armed force getting it

SA-27 GOLLUM / Buk-M3

www.globalsecurity.org

russia planned to hand it to army late 2015 early 2016 not in 2013


maybe yourself , after all heathen consider everyone a heathen . or you also consider that being religion not part of our literature

again you dreamed something i never said

that a few squadran is 4-5 milliard dollar , what is the yearly money allowed to air force.
just do the math yourself

you seems to forget the history and your brain is incapable of understanding i never supported israel but said i don't except Israel be friend with us but Russia which you claim is our strategic partner i except act as a partner . by the way show me evidence that Russia changed its ways if you can?

you again went mental and start hallucinating and say i did things that i never did


well , seems your guys strategy is to just blabbering nonsense , when you can't answer questions.

Thats the Buk M2, not Buk M3. There are conflicting reports. Wiki says Buk M3 was 2013, and 3rd Khordad was announced in 2014 and in service from 2016. Another aricle:

Sevom Khordad Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com

Sevom Khordad, also known as 3rd Khordad, is the most advanced and powerful Iranian medium-range air defense missile system. It was officially displayed in 2016.

web.archive.org

This states that 3rd Khordad was displayed 2016.

Another article about Buk M3 gives dates of end of 2015:

Buk-M3 Viking 9K317M medium-range air defense missile system data | Russia Russian missile system vehicle UK | Russia Russian army military equipment vehicles UK

Buk-M3 Viking 9K317M medium range surface-to-air defense missile system technical data fact sheet pictures video Russia

www.google.com

Therefore we can conclude that they either came at the same time or the Buk M3 was unveiled slighly before 3rd Khordad....therefore the claim that 3rd Khordad inspired Buk M3 is rejected. If anything ToT and secret cooperation is more probable considering the unison unveiling.

Where is your evidence I'm a heathen?! Have you opened my heart? Are you God (astaghfurillah)? Only a heathen would call another person a heathen without evidence. Shoor e khodeto neshoon dadee. No in fact I said the opposite, that the literature you shewed was in fact religious lol....fml

Well if we assume that 24 billion is the budget of Iran defence, 5 billion could go to a few squadrons of Mig-35s. The math is very simple.

You're making out that Russia is more of a threat to Iran than Israel, which is absurd and you're lightening the death of Iranian soldiers and scientists as of lower importance than a delayed s300 deal and a few now-expired UNSC resolutions. That is disgusting.

I have answered you well enough but your cartoonish responses and circular reasoning is what is causing this thread to go to shit. My strategy is realistic, not a veiled come get me plea to enemies of Iran with your 100% indegenous plan.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Where is your evidence I'm a heathen?! Have you opened my heart? Are you God (astaghfurillah)? Only a heathen would call another person a heathen without evidence. Shoor e khodeto neshoon dadee. No in fact I said the opposite, that the literature you shewed was in fact religious lol....fml

you even don't understand the meaning behind iranian literature , and translate them word to word ???????
for Gods sake how low have become persian language education in our schools.

somebody please tell this guy what is the meaning of what i said

Well if we assume that 24 billion is the budget of Iran defence, 5 billion could go to a few squadrons of Mig-35s. The math is very simple.

what is the budget of air force . thats important so why your math is flawed

You're making out that Russia is more of a threat to Iran than Israel, which is absurd and you're lightening the death of Iranian soldiers and scientists as of lower importance than a delayed s300 deal and a few now-expired UNSC resolutions. That is disgusting

again can't remember even implied that remotely.

I have answered you well enough but your cartoonish responses and circular reasoning is what is causing this thread to go to shit. My strategy is realistic, not a veiled come get me plea to enemies of Iran with your 100% indegenous plan.

let show how your realism is flawed

بودجه دفاعی ایران در سال آینده چقدر است؟

بر اساس لایحه بودجه سال ۱۴۰۱ برای برنامه تقویت بنیه دفاعی و تحقیقات راهبردی دفاعی تا مبلغ چهار میلیارد و پانصد میلیون یورو از سوی سازمان برنامه و بودجه تخصیص خواهد یافت.

www.mehrnews.com

thats the budget to increase military power for army and irgc . not 24 milliard dollar of some guy who are sitting in stokholm.
by your air force from Russia with that money

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

24 Billion is a tiny budget especially when they are not allowed buy on finance which what countries like Turkey do with their F-16. That 24 Billion has to prop up Navy, Airforce, Irgc and Army, to a level that can detter US and allies from attacking. Sacrifices must be taken and that is what Iran is doing. The detterance is working whether you like it or not. Without the IRGC there would be no Iran, so it's a good thing they take most of the money.

Well if we assume that 24 billion is the budget of Iran defence, 5 billion could go to a few squadrons of Mig-35s. The math is very simple.

Brother, as far as I can tell, Iran can allot a $30-40 billion budget comfortably even on a sanctioned economy without cutting corners. Why doesn't it go for it and pump money into the IRIAF. The air force was the first service branch to defect during the Revolution and deserves FAR better than the hand it's been dealt.

The akhoond have no say in the matter and those failures are on the head of IRIAF designers and policy makers. They're military guys, not akhoond. And you want us to give these incompetent people more money to burn? Get a grip!

because the company or sub-group that produces the ground GaN AESA Search/Track antenna is not contracted by the fighter producing company to produce the airborne radar using that tech. They instead awarded the contract to another company or subgroup which has another expertise. This is where lobbyism and lack of central command comes in.

This is what Tom Cooper and BT have been saying. Countries who go through revolutions and wars always have this problem where central command structure is ruined and tiny cult like groups are formed who start pushing their own projects for funding. Read about USSR vs US weapons production in cold war era. In IRIAF we currently have the following projects and group:

OWJ/IRSSJO
F-14AM upgradation
F-14A overhaul
OWJ Turbojets

Babaei Missile Industries
Fakour-90, Maghsoud LRBVR
Fattar
Azarakhsh

IRIAF Depot level upgradation
Mirage F1
F-7N
F-5E/F

HESA+IEI
Kowsar-I
Saegheh-I/II
Yasin
F-4E/D upgradation

IAI/SAHA group
Tolue Turbofans
Jashesh-700 Turbofans

Multiple other public/private companies
PGMs
Spare parts

................ So even if you retire a platform somewhere some group will lose their job so they wont let it retire through lobbyism, instead will present some weird idea to keep it going like F-7N Project Erfanian turning it to JL-9. Or if you award money to one group for making a local fighter, rest of the groups will be up the azz of the leadership to stop that from happening because they are deprived of the $ while the competitor is winning it (Words of T Cooper). I wish the next SL of Iran is a tough-*** military commander who could ruin someone for parallel projects and $ wastage (words of BT).

I have to say, the people running the IRIAF and the associated firms which cater to them piss me off a lot. They're one of the key reasons so much cash has gone down the shitter.

Why blame them ? why not blame the people who could not avail the Chinese market option ?

For being two-timing cunts who deal with us economically but arm our mortal enemies with weapons they intend to use against us.

I won't say much more or someone will bark about "abusing muh allies" but I will say this - the Imperial Japanese Army did nothing wrong during the Second Sino-Japanese War, especially the "Nanking Incident".

The Quran is right to forbid alliances with judeo-christians, let alone infidels. We ought to treat ch*na no differently; it's a vendor and we are customers trying to get the best deal for a dirt cheap price.

 

[lydian fall]

show me proof from Hezbollah
when your situation become hard and knew you are wrong you say that

in 2006 370 thank deployed from them 52 hit by atgm , RPG and IEDs . 21 of those 52 recieved enough damage to be pulled out of battle 5 deemed repairable (2 Merkavas MkII, 1 Merkava MkIII, 2 Merkavas MkIV).
One of the destroyed MkII and one of the destroyed MkIV were hit by IEDs, the rest were lost due to ATGM fire. by the way during the war 18 Merkava MK4 was hit by ATGM and only one destroyed with no death to the troop inside , the other destroyed MK-4 was hit by an IED and in that case there was loss of troop
this is the one that destroyed by IED , you can guess how much explossive used

by the way that was 2006 , after that they reinforced their tanks in 2014 non of the atgm fired by Palestinian could penetrate the tanks

thats the official report , if you have any evidence contrary to that . i be glad to see it . that will be reassuring to me because in future our allies and troops must face those tanks again and i hope they be prepared for them
you knew after 2006 they added extra belly armor to those tanks

they added trophy to the tanks

that goes your wonder kornets

lesson from something they didn't had access to and was designed for another scenario . as always you never stop belittling Iranian achievement and glorifying Russian ones

and iran didn't see any benefit from russia on this regard to put order there , we already could produce our radars

yeah atgm and AK-103 according to you .what iran get and needed was in late 90s and early 2000 after that russia rarely gave us anything and what they gave us were not significant at all
all we builtwas due to hard work of our scientist and what we could get our hands on around the middle-east

again trying to hide the defects in Russian equipment
the cause was clear the sam re-positioned there , the operator forget to set new north south axis and the sam itself could not point to that as a result the operator taught the airplane come from the opposite direction . there are many report on that .

we field s-200 , we field s-125 , we field hawk , ..... we field F-7 and toothless F-1
the reason we field it is because we have it . its inferior to 15th khordad, 3th khordad and Bavar-373

no the shell were given to the forces in Syria not Iran and was not used in designing basir .

yeah sure . thats why only half the system recieved

the system was not needed at the time and antey 2500 was not accepted because Iran have plans for bavar-373 also antey-2500 shine more in anti ballistic mode compared to pm series and Iran don't face as much threat in that regard compared to enemy aircraft . another case of Russian want to sabotage us, we buy something and they insist on delivering something we didn't need , 10 years late

we sharing the enmity as much as they are our enemy we also are their enemy and will stop at nothing short of their destruction , are you claiming Iran will stop being Israel enemy if tomorrow Israel say we want to be Iran friends ? do you really have such low opinion on Iran foreign policy , are you consider us so naive and fickle

but you say we most forget what they did and abandon domestic production in favor of buying from them

and how i stated we must be toward Israel ? can you elaborate that and point to exact post i said that

also Only someone who doesn't properly understand what I wrote about nature of Iran and Israel relation, could possibly alter its meaning in such a way. Or perhaps an intellectually dishonest one, but I prefer to be optimistic.

you just dreaming and can never find anywhere i support them .

I am sure your butt is still burning from 2006

@SalarHaqq @BlessedKingOfLonging You're talking to a hasbara troll @Hack-Hook

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

I am sure your butt is still burning from 2006

@SalarHaqq @BlessedKingOfLonging You're talking to a hasbara troll @Hack-Hook

I was briefly on the IDF and IMF forums in the past. He's a veteran user who was always critical and somewhat cynical.

Is he a traitor, though? A part of me thinks yes and the other part says he's frustrated in life and this results in him projecting his misery everywhere, including making damning statements that you'd normally hear from enemies (may they be cuckolded and their penises shrink in size).

 

[lydian fall]

I was briefly on the IDF and IMF forums in the past. He's a veteran user who was always critical and somewhat cynical.

Is he a traitor, though? A part of me thinks yes and the other part says he's frustrated in life and this results in him projecting his misery everywhere, including making damning statements that you'd normally hear from enemies (may they be cuckolded and their penises shrink).

He is a professional hasbara troll just like 500

90% of their posts are extremely anti Iranian/resistance axis and pro Israheli

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Brother, as far as I can tell, Iran can allot a $30-40 billion budget comfortably even on a sanctioned economy without cutting corners. Why doesn't it go for it and pump money into the IRIAF. The air force was the first service branch to defect during the Revolution and deserves FAR better than the hand it's been dealt.


I have to say, the people running the IRGC and the associated firms which cater to them piss me off a lot. They're one of the key reasons so much cash has gone down the shitter.

For being two-timing cunts who deal with us economically but arm our mortal enemies with weapons they intend to use against us.

I won't say much more or someone will bark about "abusing muh allies" but I will say this - the Imperial Japanese Army did nothing wrong during the Second Sino-Japanese War, especially the "Nanking Incident".

The Quran is right to forbid alliances with judeo-christians, let alone infidels. We ought to treat ch*na no differently; it's a vendor and we are customers trying to get the best deal for a dirt cheap price.

It's not just about pumping money in, there has to be some worthwhile ToT and willingness from the other side to sell. Cant just keep blaming akhoond everytime. Also without the IRGC Iran would be the 51st state of US. Show some respect!

 

[WudangMaster]

@drmeson @Daylamite Warrior @Hack-Hook @WudangMaster @SalarHaqq @TheImmortal

It seems we're at an impasse here.

Logically, there seem to be only two routes:
(A) Depending on if Babak Taghavee is right and an indigenous TF-30 414-A and F-14 airframe have been developed, we can field a domestic 4th generation fighter integrating all the avionics and sensors embedded on the HESA Kowsar.

Of course, new additions like GaN AESA radar, EW suite and IRST are needed to bolster it and bring it up to 4++ generation standard. And over time, higher engine quality with greater overall dry and afterburner thrust will be needed to bring out its best.


(B) We settle for a stop-gap measure of inducting small numbers of Su-30SM2 and Su-35SE but with technology transfer that at least enables us to manufacture our own spare parts rather than being dependent on the russian UAC and for our mechanics and engineers to be able to perform full overhaul and maintenance independently. Otherwise, it's a huge risk and a waste of precious foreign currency.

Regardless of which route is taken, the Mig-29 has to be passed down to the IRGC-AF to allow them to expand their aerial reach and arsenal and modify the platform according to their needs.

Really depends on if the Tf30 is made inside the country and if the reliability has reached acceptable levels. Also if the awg9 has been reproduced or an equivalent radar (or even better), then domestic production is the route to go with Bavar 373 type money and attention, it will happen in record time.