IRIAF | News and Discussions

[mohsen]

Why exactly should they waist scares resources seeing through a failed project that would bare no fruits for the IRIAF? They did the only smart thing by cutting their loses. This project was used as a publicity stunt and it back fired and should serve as a lesson of what not to do in the future. There is nothing shameful about having failed projects if you can learn from them but it would have been a great shame had they kept sinking money into a failure just to "save face".

Was the space program a waste too? or 150 seat passenger jet? or airborne radars, or the rest of Jamaran class ships with zero advancement after 8 years?!

These projects weren't suspended because of a technical assessment (as you are suggesting), they were stopped cause traitors were saying this is the era of negotiations, not missiles! so they cut the whole military research budget, Dehghan agreed to cut 85% of the defense ministry's budget, suspend everything and in return receive his medal, and so it happened. situation was so critical that next year supreme leader used it's exclusive power to order a minimum extra budget so at least critical projects wouldn't stop.

There is no failure in research, but there has been no research, so it has been a 100% failure. Qaher wasn't supposed to be finish at this stage, it was an ongoing project, we all know there was no domestic engine, radar or missiles or even avionics, but project was stopped by this traitor Dehghan and then he said if IRIF pays for it, we will produce this half born child! and obviously IRIAF said no. Fotros and other drones had the same fate, the half finished projects (of previous government) were unveiled and said IRIF can order them! see how 8 years later still IRIAF has to order the Ababil 3 drone! this is why IRGC and Army started to develop their own drones.

so this whole excuse of mentioning no order from IRIAF is a sham by traitors to hide the end of research in defense ministry, this is the real publicity stunt.

 

[Cthulhu]

Why exactly should they waist scares resources seeing through a failed project that would bare no fruits for the IRIAF? They did the only smart thing by cutting their loses. This project was used as a publicity stunt and it back fired and should serve as a lesson of what not to do in the future. There is nothing shameful about having failed projects if you can learn from them but it would have been a great shame had they kept sinking money into a failure just to "save face".

Yeah this thing became a publicity stunt when Ahmadinejad used it as one, The biggest cucks in the world are our POS politicians.

 

[TheImmortal]

Was the space program a waste too? or 150 seat passenger jet? or airborne radars, or the rest of Jamaran class ships with zero advancement after 8 years?!

Literally have nothing in common.

Let me act like Mohsen

“was electricity a waste too? Was heart surgery a waste too? Was a tank a waste too?”

Like you are naming things that have ACTUAL use. Even Jamaran helped replace Iran’s fleet from the 1970’s even if it wasn’t the latest naval technology or design.

Qaher was a joke. The pilot couldn’t fit. The wheels couldn’t even handle landing the plane, the plane could maybe hold 2 250lb bombs, and would stall in upper atmosphere. The plane needed to be completely redesigned.

 

[sha ah]

Yes Qaher was a publicity stunt and not a good one at that. The only thing worse imo was Salami's dowsing rod incident. That was the biggest joke ever. The sad thing is that Iran actually has real capabilities so why bother with these lies and nonsense ?

Also if you're going to promote a fake plane then why not show something that actually looks impressive. I've seen designs made up by amateurs in their spare time that look more impressive than Qaher.

Iran Unveils Fake Coronavirus ‘Detector’

Iran Unveils Fake Coronavirus ‘Detector’

The device appears to be some form of dowsing rod. Dowsing is a pseudo-scientific method of finding hidden substances or objects. Dowsing has been tested under controlled conditions and found to be a hoax.

www.polygraph.info

All of the following images are concepts drawn up by people in their spare time. However they all look more viable and more impressive than the Qaher. Again, my point is, if you're going to put out a mock up for domestic consumption, then why not something that actually looks good ?

Interesting, an F-5 stealth concept. Compare it to the F-5

Some random concepts, all of which are better designs than the weird looking Qaher.

Literally have nothing in common.

Let me act like Mohsen

“was electricity a waste too? Was heart surgery a waste too? Was a tank a waste too?”

Like you are naming things that have ACTUAL use. Even Jamaran helped replace Iran’s fleet from the 1970’s even if it wasn’t the latest naval technology or design.

Qaher was a joke. The pilot couldn’t fit. The wheels couldn’t even handle landing the plane, the plane could maybe hold 2 250lb bombs, and would stall in upper atmosphere. The plane needed to be completely redesigned.

 

[Muhammed45]

Was the space program a waste too? or 150 seat passenger jet? or airborne radars, or the rest of Jamaran class ships with zero advancement after 8 years?!

These projects weren't suspended because of a technical assessment (as you are suggesting), they were stopped cause traitors were saying this is the era of negotiations, not missiles! so they cut the whole military research budget, Dehghan agreed to cut 85% of the defense ministry's budget, suspend everything and in return receive his medal, and so it happened. situation was so critical that next year supreme leader used it's exclusive power to order a minimum extra budget so at least critical projects wouldn't stop.

There is no failure in research, but there has been no research, so it has been a 100% failure. Qaher wasn't supposed to be finish at this stage, it was an ongoing project, we all know there was no domestic engine, radar or missiles or even avionics, but project was stopped by this traitor Dehghan and then he said if IRIF pays for it, we will produce this half born child! and obviously IRIAF said no. Fotros and other drones had the same fate, the half finished projects (of previous government) were unveiled and said IRIF can order them! see how 8 years later still IRIAF has to order the Ababil 3 drone! this is why IRGC and Army started to develop their own drones.

so this whole excuse of mentioning no order from IRIAF is a sham by traitors to hide the end of research in defense ministry, this is the real publicity stunt.

Let me guess dear mohsen

Let's suppose Iran finishes developing light and medium turbofan engines and makes them trust vectoring and reduces its Heat signature by using cold gas in exhausts of its engines which is already possible on Qaher Concept, Then puts two of these engines into Qaher airframe which is enjoying stealth coating. It can be a brilliant Design.

Still i am hopeful about this project, it was a simple Design which can be heavily upgraded in the future. A bigger airframe with high grade Titanium superalloy carrying a big radar with internal weapons Bay.

Point is, it can be upgraded and/or be replaced by a better one.

 

[sanel1412]

Yes Qaher was a publicity stunt and not a good one at that. The only thing worse imo was Salami's dowsing rod incident. That was the biggest joke ever. The sad thing is that Iran actually has real capabilities so why bother with these lies and nonsense ?

Also if you're going to promote a fake plane then why not show something that actually looks impressive. I've seen designs made up by amateurs in their spare time that look more impressive than Qaher.

Iran Unveils Fake Coronavirus ‘Detector’

Iran Unveils Fake Coronavirus ‘Detector’

The device appears to be some form of dowsing rod. Dowsing is a pseudo-scientific method of finding hidden substances or objects. Dowsing has been tested under controlled conditions and found to be a hoax.

www.polygraph.info

All of the following images are concepts drawn up by people in their spare time. However they all look more viable and more impressive than the Qaher. Again, my point is, if you're going to put out a mock up for domestic consumption, then why not something that actually looks good ?

Interesting, an F-5 stealth concept. Compare it to the F-5

View attachment 802028
View attachment 802037

Some random concepts, all of which are better designs than the weird looking Qaher.

View attachment 802032View attachment 802033View attachment 802034View attachment 802035

Dont be idiot,none of those drawns looks promising or anything else than some drawns based on someone imagination which itself is based on their life or better say child experience...+ cartoons + today US,China,Russia concepts and than you have aircraft that looks like SU 35 raped SU 50..and canards on aircraft design that doesnt need it and will never be used on such design...So..go back in reality...I suggest people look F-14,F-15,F-16..F-117 projects in early stages...F-14 went 16 or 17 different designs.....look YF-17..it looks more like F-5 than today F-18,did you see F-117 first prototype..worst than Q-313 10 times....Bottom line is,Qareh 313 was abused and used too early for political campaign...with proper funding it can became anything ...

 

[vizier]

Yes Qaher was a publicity stunt and not a good one at that. The only thing worse imo was Salami's dowsing rod incident. That was the biggest joke ever. The sad thing is that Iran actually has real capabilities so why bother with these lies and nonsense ?

Also if you're going to promote a fake plane then why not show something that actually looks impressive. I've seen designs made up by amateurs in their spare time that look more impressive than Qaher.

Iran Unveils Fake Coronavirus ‘Detector’

Iran Unveils Fake Coronavirus ‘Detector’

The device appears to be some form of dowsing rod. Dowsing is a pseudo-scientific method of finding hidden substances or objects. Dowsing has been tested under controlled conditions and found to be a hoax.

www.polygraph.info

All of the following images are concepts drawn up by people in their spare time. However they all look more viable and more impressive than the Qaher. Again, my point is, if you're going to put out a mock up for domestic consumption, then why not something that actually looks good ?

Interesting, an F-5 stealth concept. Compare it to the F-5

View attachment 802028
View attachment 802037

Some random concepts, all of which are better designs than the weird looking Qaher.

View attachment 802032View attachment 802033View attachment 802034View attachment 802035

These designs look like classical 5th gen. fighter design. Small surfaces of the V tail swept outwards makes the planes detectable to modern ship or ground based VHF radars.

There should be a taillless or quasi-tailless design for a 6th gen. ucav or manned fighter aircraft to solve detectability issues for emerging radars.

The tailless concept designs look good but we have only seen subsonic ucav variants as of today as the plane would be very unstable to control in high aoa and mach situations which is the basic requirement of a fighter aircraft

European designers seem to solve the VHF tail detectability issue with a quasi tailless design. The surfaces are swept invards and improve the stability of aircraft to high mach-aoa conditions. and effectively concealed from the radars below by the large wing surface. This one shows rotating wingtip surfaces as rudders/ailerons. Elevators and rudder surfaces can be added to the tail section as well in my opinion.

Just an idea I wanted to add to the ongoing discussion against future already emerging threats. 5th gen. JSF / Su-50 and others are used by the producer countries to experiment on and find the flaws of it and come up with more competent 6th gen. aircraft behind the scenes while selling these merchandise to other countries.

 

[TheImmortal]

Dont be idiot,none of those drawns looks promising or anything else than some drawns based on someone imagination which itself is based on their life or better say child experience...+ cartoons + today US,China,Russia concepts and than you have aircraft that looks like SU 35 raped SU 50..and canards on aircraft design that doesnt need it and will never be used on such design...So..go back in reality...I suggest people look F-14,F-15,F-16..F-117 projects in early stages...F-14 went 16 or 17 different designs.....look YF-17..it looks more like F-5 than today F-18,did you see F-117 first prototype..worst than Q-313 10 times....Bottom line is,Qareh 313 was abused and used too early for political campaign...with proper funding it can became anything ...

Without engines it couldn’t be ANYTHING.

Your examples are nonsense because those powers had many different engines to choose from or could even build one from scratch to power whatever design they came up with.

Iran only can reverse engineer J-79 (owj) in limited numbers. So any design would be STUCK with those engines as its platform.

Now if Iran had RD-33 or AL-21 engines reverse engineered then yes project could go thru many iterations and final design could transform to a medium heavy fighter. Cant do that with J-79’s would always be stuck as a light fighter.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Iran did not reverse engineer J79 as that is one used on F-4 Phantom II as Owj is reverse engineering of most advanced J85 that is J85-GE-21.

J85-GE-21 has compressor blades and single spool made of titanium with one extra compressor stage and some other features which makes it technologically in some regards as advanced or more than J79 while few years later FJ33 medium bypass turbofan improved upon bigger FJ44 medium to high bypass turbofan was reverse engineered with designation Jahesh-700.

Iran has technology upscale FJ33 to FJ44 hence have more efficient andmore powerful turbofan than one used in Boeing's Bird of Prey and FJ44 series was used on Lockheed Martin's Polecat hence if further development of Jahesh to match FJ44-4 then for example Yasin powered by J85-GE-21 could with FJ44-4 equivalent turbofan have more than double range such as AIDC AT-3.

J85-GE-21 is as RD-9 and Atar 09K-50 has 9 compressor stages and 2 turbines on a single spool with annular combustor. Iran has Mirage F1 that is powered by Atar 09K-50 turbojet.

Afterburner of J85-21 is longer than core engine while also being almost as heavy as core itself, for that reason there is potential for example for F-5E/F to have more powerful jet engine and that with technology used by Jahesh that could be adapted for low bypass turbofan if enough resources are invested in research and development. Afterburner of J85 series are crude when for example afterburner on AL-21 is only 20% of entire turbojet engine and for that reason it is clear that jet engine with more compressor stages and turbines can fit inside F-5E/F fighters.

As f or Qaher-313 that is seen as symbol of mockery involving Iran, that design makes more sense for limited capabilities of Iranian aerospace industry than those student projects that are nowhere as constrained by real world challenges of making this or that, such as consideration of expansion and contraction of metals as there are pressure points that can crack airframe.

Qaher-313 doesn't have any automatic cannons and its ammunition as F-5E on which it weights 600 kilograms by itself and rear landing gears are as complex as nose landing gear hence more compact that saves space and allows better integrity of airframe such as wings unlike on F-5 series that was flaw since it impact how much wings payload could those carry safely.

It is clear by design of Qaher-313 that there may not be any hardpoints on the wings and by looks of its mockup and prototype thus those wings can be made lighter along makes it clear that any armament carried by Qaher-313 would be in internal weapons bay, we saw nothing on sides while belly was never shown hence probably there for 2 air to air missiles.

Qaher-313 might be limited to subsonic speed, even if so, goal probably to have most survivable fighter jet in inventory that could get close enough for target to be in no escape zone.

If its subsonic then it might as well be powered by FJ44-4 equivalent turbofan and have range to cover entire Iran.

 

[mohsen]

Literally have nothing in common.

Let me act like Mohsen

“was electricity a waste too? Was heart surgery a waste too? Was a tank a waste too?”

Like you are naming things that have ACTUAL use. Even Jamaran helped replace Iran’s fleet from the 1970’s even if it wasn’t the latest naval technology or design.

Qaher was a joke. The pilot couldn’t fit. The wheels couldn’t even handle landing the plane, the plane could maybe hold 2 250lb bombs, and would stall in upper atmosphere. The plane needed to be completely redesigned.

No, let me act like you and the reformists in Iran:
"Oil was a nasty and smelly liquid, it was good that we gave the whole of it for free to west."
"Nuclear is dangerous and useless, it's good to give it away for nothing too."

lat time I checked there was a pilot perfectly fit inside the aircraft on taxi test.

As that f@cker Dehghan admitted, it was a multi stage development, nothing more than a trainer aircraft at this point. studying it's aerodynamics could have given us plenty of information for this or any other design, it's a necessity for a country with zero experience.

 

[mohsen]

These designs look like classical 5th gen. fighter design. Small surfaces of the V tail swept outwards makes the planes detectable to modern ship or ground based VHF radars.

There should be a taillless or quasi-tailless design for a 6th gen. ucav or manned fighter aircraft to solve detectability issues for emerging radars.

The tailless concept designs look good but we have only seen subsonic ucav variants as of today as the plane would be very unstable to control in high aoa and mach situations which is the basic requirement of a fighter aircraft


View attachment 802054


European designers seem to solve the VHF tail detectability issue with a quasi tailless design. The surfaces are swept invards and improve the stability of aircraft to high mach-aoa conditions. and effectively concealed from the radars below by the large wing surface. This one shows rotating wingtip surfaces as rudders/ailerons. Elevators and rudder surfaces can be added to the tail section as well in my opinion.


View attachment 802055


Just an idea I wanted to add to the ongoing discussion against future already emerging threats. 5th gen. JSF / Su-50 and others are used by the producer countries to experiment on and find the flaws of it and come up with more competent 6th gen. aircraft behind the scenes while selling these merchandise to other countries.

While you are at it, let me add that Britain's future sixth gen aircraft has tails, if you have played Tom Clancy's simulated mission games then you know that in all critical missions involving penetrating into a contested zone they use very low altitude flight, and FYI even F22 is unstable at low altitude.

Now look at Yemen where their few primitive optical air defenses has forces Saudi coalition to use stand off ammunition. so the question isn't whether that tailless design is achievable but whether it has any use and worth all the investments.

 

[vizier]

While you are at it, let me add that Britain's future sixth gen aircraft has tails, if you have played Tom Clancy's simulated mission games then you know that in all critical missions involving penetrating into a contested zone they use very low altitude flight, and FYI even F22 is unstable at low altitude.

Now look at Yemen where their few primitive optical air defenses has forces Saudi coalition to use stand off ammunition. so the question isn't whether that tailless design is achievable but whether it has any use and worth all the investments.

Yes it is costly and I agree that for a2a roles like interceptor roles especially tailless design would be an overkill and would prolong the design and procurement delaying effective defence against already proliferating 5th gen. platforms. In a2a tailed and tailless stealth would not be very different with less cost advantage of tailed design as highly heavy vhf radars would not be flying in air as of today and near future at least not with the same effectiveness that the the radars of the ships. For attack roles already flying wing body subsonic stealth uavs can paint the target and stand off ballistic missiles can be used like against ships and for interceptor roles tailed designs would be very sufficient. Tailed design would also be sufficent for stand off attacks as well not going too deep inside enemy territory or not coming very close to ships. So ongoing designs should not be neglected and produced but limitations should be calculated and missions should be planned accordingly. Future tailless variants can be planned and scheduled as well .Also if someone else procures these tailless fighters knowing its advantages would be helpful and not totally relying on vhf radars but increasing active protection and increasing air escorts against such emerging threats.

 

[Oldman1]

As that f@cker Dehghan admitted, it was a multi stage development, nothing more than a trainer aircraft at this point. studying it's aerodynamics could have given us plenty of information for this or any other design, it's a necessity for a country with zero experience.

Wasn't even close to being the same or better than a trainer aircraft. Didn't even fly at all.

 

[mohsen]

Wasn't even close to being the same or better than a trainer aircraft. Didn't even fly at all.

It didn't fly, our space rockets didn't launch, our centrifuges didn't spin, all thanks to the agenda of the pro-west government. (which we trashed them this year)

 

[jauk]

Wasn't even close to being the same or better than a trainer aircraft. Didn't even fly at all.

Although I continue to be against investing in retrograde tech (such as manned aircraft—with all due respect to our missing contributor @evilwesterner), I believe Qaher is simply a technology demonstrator. Nothing more. The propaganda is simply botched messaging driven by politicians. We have a word for this this uniquely Iranian behavior: دم پایی بازی.