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I don't care about the F-14 wings for all I care they could have replaced them with fixed wings
And the whole point in reverse engineering the F-14 would be to develop the tools needed to produce a viable domestic fighter and NOT get stuck on an outdated American design

I always speculated the model of the single engine F-14 would in fact be the final product if Iran ever went that route. Whatever the aircraft a powerful radar is as essential as powerful engines, even more so than and new jhigooli design. It is those kind of aircraft that are needed to provide fast and effective relief to any continuous pressure in hot spots that could be applied to the national air defense grid. The model of the modified tomcat floating around looks to fit those needs more so than qaher.
 
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I still like to see a prototype of Qaher 313 flying. For me this would mean that there is such a lot of development in the background that also let other projects be not only speculation. And would show how low the information is we have today about all projects and developments going on in Iran.
 
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I wouldn't mind it flying either, so long as the engine source is viable and sustainable either from Russia, or China or domestic production. The engine source cannot be borrowed or temporary as this is too vital a component, same goes for radars. With these two, bvr weaponry can easily be expanded. Also, it must look considerably different with a much larger radome, better embedded irst or flir, larger size, etc. In its current configuration, it still of little use even with stronger engines.
 
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Current prototype is a joke.

Unless the plane grows 3x in size, they remove the wingtip bird of prey design, enlarge the intakes and expand the size of canards then this plane is a joke.
 
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Moving intakes downward is even better still. There was a photoshop alteration of it from around 2013 or 2014 in one of the older forums with those features in place, making the plane more sound;
 
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Iran trying to join top countries in VTOL

Tehran (IP) - Head of Iran Aviation Industries Organization (IAIO) said the organization is making its utmost efforts to be among the top countries in the field of Vertical Take-off and Landing (VTOL) vehicles in the near future.

Iran Press/Iran News: Speaking in the opening ceremony of the Aviation Technology Industry on Thursday, Brigadier General Afshin Khajeh Fard considered the project as a competitive environment for doing scientific work and achieving a product that can place Iran among the countries that export VTOL.

The project has been welcomed by the university professors and students, and 15 teams from the aerospace faculties of the country's universities have registered to take part in the first national competition for the design of vertical transport aircraft.

The inauguration ceremony of the Aviation Industry Technology was held on Thursday, in the presence of the head of the Iran Aviation Industries Organization (IAIO), Head of the Iranian Aerospace Association, a group of professors and students interested in participating in the competition.

 
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That area in red is the canards main elevator it is the main component that allows the aircraft to turn on it's Pitch and Roll axis

No that is not how it works. The control surface (the red part) changes the overall lift of the entire surface. Therefore it is not only the control surface, but the entire canard that generates the lift.

Fixed canard with moving control surface on viggen
1606743738847.png

Moving canard on gripen
1606743790682.png


Obviously, gripens moving canard is a much more efficient design and the lifting surface can be made smaller because the entire surface is moving.

now i'm hoping I don't have to go into great detail as to why this Airframe has a comparatively limited ability to turn at high speeds because it's rather obvious

No its not really!

The size of your control surfaces, it's design and the degree of how they elevate and move up and down
put up against what they have to counter (Air frame's fuselage + two main wing + 2 fixed sections of the canards + 2 stabilizers + wind and airflow resistances + Gravitational resistance)

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. The force needed to create pitch is dependent on the distance between the neutral point and centre of gravity. Hence it does not really matter how the aircraft looks like when it comes this, rather what matters really is how the aircraft is trimmed (design trimmed not pilot trimmed), meaning that dependent on where the overall lift and overall weight of the aircraft is located. The smaller the distance is between CoG and NP, the less dF is needed to rotate the aircraft around the pitch axis.

1606745040014.png


As for the speed of the Q-313, the angle of the wings, the fixed section of the canard, the thickness of wings and lack of slats,.... all put limitations on your cruise and max speed output

still not convinced. we do not even know what the requirements of this aircraft is. So how can we even judge it when we do not know the full mission spec?

And the idea that today's upgraded F-5 kosar is even comparable to the F-14 in terms of capability is beyond absurd! F-5's shortcomings in combat range & payload capacity is NOT something you can makeup for with a bunch of new electronics

I would appreciate if you would stop miss-quoting me. I did not say F-5 or Kowsar is comparable to F-14. I said, and rightly so, that the 1970s design of F14 is completely outdated and today a small Gripen can do pretty much the same mission. If you want to argue against than then be my guest, but don't make up my arguments please.

And I don't care about the F-14 wings for all I care they could have replaced them with fixed wings
And the whole point in reverse engineering the F-14 would be to develop the tools needed to produce a viable domestic fighter and NOT get stuck on an outdated American design

What tools are you referring to?


And investing in the Q-313 and fixating on the F-5 is literally throwing away money at dead end projects! So clearly you have got that backwards!

No it is not. F-5 is mainly chosen to prepare for a future industrialisation of an Iranian aircraft. In contrast to F14 it is a simple and rational design and we have an abundance of them. The managers that had the foresight to begin simple and learn the basics first are heroes, just as Hassan Tehrani Moghaddam started with simple solid rockets before moving on to more advanced designs.

If they had chosen the F-14 we would of had many of the infrastructure needed to build our own Fighters, bomber, transport & passenger aircrafts!

If you do not have an industrial base (as Iran did not have), this is not a viable plan. It is better to chose the most simple design to actually learn, not only reverse engineer, and then build your own products based on your own requirements. It's the only viable way.
 
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an Iranian F-14 getting ready for its Vertical takeoff and landing ( joint project between Army air force and IRGC aerospace force )


1606768731080.png
 
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an Iranian F-14 getting ready for its Vertical takeoff and landing ( joint project between Army air force and IRGC aerospace force )


View attachment 692123

This picture has been around for about 20 years. It was just a small carrier to move the plane. I remember there was a joke at the time where people were calling it a "Belgium aircraft carrier".
 
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Is this photoshop? If not, the deck seems a little too small for any margin and there if something attached to the port pylon.
Are the tomcats in any shape for this new addition or are they a testing platform. also, what did they have to do the tomcat frame to get this ability? What had to sacrificed and is the endeavour worth the tradeoff?
I imagine such aircraft could make the Shahid Roudaki's even more capable...
Just saw another post answering the photoshop question. I am more skeptical because it seems any plane having this capability has to sacrifice too many other abilities and seem a very cumbersome system using most of a plane's space.
 
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This picture has been around for about 20 years. It was just a small carrier to move the plane. I remember there was a joke at the time where people were calling it a "Belgium aircraft carrier".
its from Meraj project , matter of fact you your self posted a article about vertical takeoff and landing in Iran if im not wrong
Is this photoshop? If not, the deck seems a little too small for any margin and there if something attached to the port pylon.
Are the tomcats in any shape for this new addition or are they a testing platform. also, what did they have to do the tomcat frame to get this ability? What had to sacrificed and is the endeavour worth the tradeoff?
I imagine such aircraft could make the Shahid Roudaki's even more capable...
Just saw another post answering the photoshop question. I am more skeptical because it seems any plane having this capability has to sacrifice too many other abilities and seem a very cumbersome system using most of a plane's space.
well Iran had to start from somewhere and sacrificing one F-14 is nothing compared to knowledge they will get
 
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its from Meraj project , matter of fact you your self posted a article about vertical takeoff and landing in Iran if im not wrong

Yes, but these are not related. Here is a thread on another forum from 2005 with the same image.


This image has been around for even longer than that, around 20 years. Be careful with information you find online, there is alot of mis/disinformation out there, especially when it comes to Iran.

With regards to the Iranian VTOL project, do not expect a manned system. What they will probably be working on is something like this:


1606773303373.png


These VTOL systems will play an important role in future for taxis etc. In terms of military, we can use VTOL systems on our MALE UAVs. Iran does not have the funding to spend on a manned VTOL project.
 
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well Iran had to start from somewhere and sacrificing one F-14 is nothing compared to knowledge they will get
I meant what capabilities of the tomcat would be compromised to facilitate vtol. Will it lose fuel space, will weapons payload diminish, etc. I'm assuming this project is meant for the entire fleet or just a one off tech demonstrator for just one unit?
In terms of military, we can use VTOL systems on our MALE UAVs. Iran does not have the funding to spend on a manned VTOL project.

Something like the pelican or other quadcopter types are well within their ability to do right now, but something like F-35 or Yakolev doesn't seem as important as other priorities for a manned fighter. Hence my surprise with this news of modifying tomcats for this purpose.
 
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Something like the pelican or other quadcopter types are well within their ability to do right now, but something like F-35 or Yakolev doesn't seem as important as other priorities for a manned fighter. Hence my surprise with this news of modifying tomcats for this purpose.

On paper it is within their capability, however to produce a lager VTOL UAV is something that will need to be worked on, but certainly do-able for us. Priority should also be given to produce larger VTOL UAVs in the civilian sector. As for this news regarding VTOL F-14, it makes no sense. That picture is from over 20 years ago, and even if assume that is just a generic stock photo and not related to the news, to produce a VTOL F-14 it would requite extensive changed to engine and configuration. That would require a great deal of funding and what for? The F-14 is not a plane that will meet Iran's need going forward. It falls short qualitatively and quantitatively. This venture would make little sense in my opinion. Our limited budget in that sector must be used in a better way.
 
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I meant what capabilities of the tomcat would be compromised to facilitate vtol. Will it lose fuel space, will weapons payload diminish, etc. I'm assuming this project is meant for the entire fleet or just a one off tech demonstrator for just one unit?


Something like the pelican or other quadcopter types are well within their ability to do right now, but something like F-35 or Yakolev doesn't seem as important as other priorities for a manned fighter. Hence my surprise with this news of modifying tomcats for this purpose.
more like for Iranian fighter jet
 
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