IRIAF | News and Discussions

[VEVAK]

So you pulled the 100K out of your butt? That is what you are saying?

I thought there was a commander who said a Qiam missile cost 250K or something along those lines maybe it Shahed-129 he was talking.

The Head of Iran's Missile Forces is on record for saying that the most expensive single stage Iranian Ballistic Missiles costs under $400K (Ghadr F & Emad) so believe what you like!
As for how I got under $100K for the Fatteh-110 well you are free to believe whatever you like I really don't care!

FYI Qiam is a liquid fuel missile with a range of 700km vs Fatteh-110 that is a 300km solid fuel so they are far cheaper and use far cheaper launchers and are produced in far greater numbers

 

[GWXP]

Fateh costs Iran under $100K because it's a domestically produced and the raw materials are basically free so all your really paying for is manpower that is relatively cheap in Iran and parts that make up the sub systems both domestics and imported that by themselves don't cost much.
However that wouldn't be the production costs if Iran wanted to export it!

FYI Iran's Simogh SLV costs Iran $3.5 Million with standard pricing so your numbers are way off!

F-35 is also domestically produced in USA with domestic raw materials and still it doesnt have a cheap costs.

Pershing 1770km ballistic missile (similar to Sejjil and being solid fuel- cheaper than Khorramshahr) was also produced domestically in USA with all the subsytems made in USA and yet it cost in 1984 was 4.4mln dollar---adjusted for inflation it is 9.5 mln dollar today.

You guys think ballistic missile is a firework?

First you need to invest billions of dollars into production facilities and their expensive equipment and infrastructure and then you have to pay it off.

Many countries in the world produce military equipment domestically with domestic raw materials...and yet they pay millions of dollars per unit....because you need to pay off billions you invest into industrial base.

For example Russia also produces Iskander missiles domestically with domestic labor and raw materials and yet I read that price per missile for Russian ministry of Defense is 3,5mln dollar per missile.

Maybe Russians need a magical advice from Iran on how to bring price per missile to 100k so they could produce them in tens of thousands???

If the price was 100k---for one billion Iran could buy 10.000 Fateh and threaten 10.000 targets in the region with precise strike and this could make Iran a superpower that doesnt need air force at all.

And yet Pentagon estimates that Iran has 2000 missiles and this number only shows how expensive missiles are.

I think Pentagon is smarter than you and they make more reasonable estimates

Even the short range ballistic missiles that are exported by China for example cost millions of dollar per unit...and I doubt that Chinese add 1000% to the original price to make profit....30%-50% adding value to the original price is more reasonable.

 

[Aramagedon]

Guys the Mofo @TheImmortal really doesn't worth to quote.

 

[TheImmortal]

The Head of Iran's Missile Forces is on record for saying that the most expensive single stage Iranian Ballistic Missiles costs under $400K (Ghadr F & Emad) so believe what you like!
As for how I got under $100K for the Fatteh-110 well you are free to believe whatever you like I really don't care!

FYI Qiam is a liquid fuel missile with a range of 700km vs Fatteh-110 that is a 300km solid fuel so they are far cheaper and use far cheaper launchers and are produced in far greater numbers

“Iran no doubt is seeking to establish the ability to produce the underlying components and materials used to make complete missile systems and subsystems, which also means it must import associated production equipment and technology. But Iran remains dependent on importing many such components and materials, as well as their constituent subcomponents and materials.48 Key items that Iran apparently continues to seek from abroad include:
• Guidance technologies to increase missile accuracy like gyroscopes, navigational sensors, gyrocompasses, and accelerometers;49
• Ultra high-strength steels and high-grade aluminum alloy used to make lighter rocket bodies for longer-range liquid-propellant missiles;50
• Ball bearings for use in liquid-propellant rocket engines;51
• Valves, electronics, and measuring equipment suitable for use in ground testing of liquid-propellant ballistic missiles and SLVs;52
• Production equipment and feedstock material for high-quality carbon fiber and aramid fiber (kevlar),53 used to reduce weight in missile components like solid rocket motor cases (and thus increase missile range);
• Graphite cylinders that are machined to make heat-resistant lightweight missile parts like nozzle throats and re-entry vehicle nose tips (which again can help increase missile range);54
• Tungsten metal powder and tungsten-copper alloy plates used to make jet vanes for thrust vector control systems.55
Iran has obtained such items in the past, and likely will continue to do so in the future, from entities in China, North Korea, and Russia.56”

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/FP_20190321_missile_program_WEB.pdf



Again you made a claim that Iran’s missile program is entirely self reliant on raw materials and guidance systems. That claim is without proof as well.

Personally, I think Fateh costs are more in the range of 200-300K and the inhibitor is not in fact cost, but quality materials needed to “finish” each missile that Iran still imports. Or else even with a cost of $200K per missile, Iran could stockpile tens of thousands Fateh missile if the missile was entirely built FROM SCRATCH within Iran.

We know that is not the case because Iran’s space program and missile program has been tainted with defected parts/materials by US/Israel/EU in attempt to cause doubt in supply chain of Iran.

 

[Ich]

Again you made a claim that Iran’s missile program is entirely self reliant on raw materials and guidance systems. That claim is without proof as well.

If it comes to Fateh 313 i would say Iran is self reliant. The electronic, the gyro, the nav system, the body, the propellant, the warhead - all parts are produced in Iran as far as i read.

Edit:

laser gyroscop is old stuff in Iran. There are also old research at shiraz university to optimize this laser gyroscopes with new/different materials

http://ijop.ir/article-1-329-en.html

 

[GWXP]

Iran is self-sufficient in ballistic missiles after all these decades of development.

If it was not --- US would have pressured all countries not to sell missile spare parts to Iran.

Stupid claims that Iran is not self reliant are as stupid as claims by "experts" that Iranian missiles have a CEP of 500 meters.

But still it doesn,t mean that Iranian short range ballistic missiles cost 200k, which is nonsense especially when you compare with stated prices on Chinese or Russian or old US missiles.

Claims of some magical way of production in Iran that goes against all laws of economy and brings price per unit at 100-200k are also false

 

[sahureka2]

 

[arashkamangir]

its a beauty but too bad it wont likely see a day. I hope atleast out of it, something good come out for Iranian aircraft industry.

 

[VEVAK]

“Iran no doubt is seeking to establish the ability to produce the underlying components and materials used to make complete missile systems and subsystems, which also means it must import associated production equipment and technology. But Iran remains dependent on importing many such components and materials, as well as their constituent subcomponents and materials.48 Key items that Iran apparently continues to seek from abroad include:
• Guidance technologies to increase missile accuracy like gyroscopes, navigational sensors, gyrocompasses, and accelerometers;49
• Ultra high-strength steels and high-grade aluminum alloy used to make lighter rocket bodies for longer-range liquid-propellant missiles;50
• Ball bearings for use in liquid-propellant rocket engines;51
• Valves, electronics, and measuring equipment suitable for use in ground testing of liquid-propellant ballistic missiles and SLVs;52
• Production equipment and feedstock material for high-quality carbon fiber and aramid fiber (kevlar),53 used to reduce weight in missile components like solid rocket motor cases (and thus increase missile range);
• Graphite cylinders that are machined to make heat-resistant lightweight missile parts like nozzle throats and re-entry vehicle nose tips (which again can help increase missile range);54
• Tungsten metal powder and tungsten-copper alloy plates used to make jet vanes for thrust vector control systems.55
Iran has obtained such items in the past, and likely will continue to do so in the future, from entities in China, North Korea, and Russia.56”

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/FP_20190321_missile_program_WEB.pdf



Again you made a claim that Iran’s missile program is entirely self reliant on raw materials and guidance systems. That claim is without proof as well.

Personally, I think Fateh costs are more in the range of 200-300K and the inhibitor is not in fact cost, but quality materials needed to “finish” each missile that Iran still imports. Or else even with a cost of $200K per missile, Iran could stockpile tens of thousands Fateh missile if the missile was entirely built FROM SCRATCH within Iran.

We know that is not the case because Iran’s space program and missile program has been tainted with defected parts/materials by US/Israel/EU in attempt to cause doubt in supply chain of Iran.

LOL! If you were to believe the absurd nonsense coming out of Brookings institute, IISS and other such clowns on Iranian missiles then you'd have to believe morons who by 2010 still didn't even know Iran's Sejil-2 was a 2 stage missile and these are morons who get paid for being experts on Iranians missiles!

So posting clownish American institutes as proof on Iranian missiles is the most ridiculous thing you've done so far! And I'm not saying everything they post is a lie but if you post enough layman's level BS on a single subject clearly your bond to get some things right...

For example Iran's Tungsten production and requirements but that doesn't make everything they post true like ball brings that is the MOST absurd thing I've heard so far and again it's claims by morons that clearly didn't do their research right!
You also have to realize that sometimes choosing to import a part as appose to producing it is more a financial decision rather than an ability to produce which is the case when it comes to hi RPM ball brings and Iran does most defiantly does produce them however they are a rather cheap part to import and currently importing them comes out cheaper then increasing production.

As for Gyro's that's just absurd because missile gyro's have been produce by Iran since the late 90's and I can easily state that well over 80% of these claims are pure fiction and easily disproven if one spends enough time researching the subject!

As for the Fatteh-110 this is a missile produce by Iran for nearly 2 decades now and except for a few chips, processors & memory storage devices no vital part is actually imported

 

[TheImmortal]

LOL! If you were to believe the absurd nonsense coming out of Brookings institute, IISS and other such clowns on Iranian missiles then you'd have to believe morons who by 2010 still didn't even know Iran's Sejil-2 was a 2 stage missile and these are morons who get paid for being experts on Iranians missiles!

So posting clownish American institutes as proof on Iranian missiles is the most ridiculous thing you've done so far! And I'm not saying everything they post is a lie but if you post enough layman's level BS on a single subject clearly your bond to get some things right...

For example Iran's Tungsten production and requirements but that doesn't make everything they post true like ball brings that is the MOST absurd thing I've heard so far and again it's claims by morons that clearly didn't do their research right!
You also have to realize that sometimes choosing to import a part as appose to producing it is more a financial decision rather than an ability to produce which is the case when it comes to hi RPM ball brings and Iran does most defiantly does produce them however they are a rather cheap part to import and currently importing them comes out cheaper then increasing production.

As for Gyro's that's just absurd because missile gyro's have been produce by Iran since the late 90's and I can easily state that well over 80% of these claims are pure fiction and easily disproven if one spends enough time researching the subject!

As for the Fatteh-110 this is a missile produce by Iran for nearly 2 decades now and except for a few chips, processors & memory storage devices no vital part is actually imported

It is well documented Iran imports for its missile program, I don’t have the time to spoon feed you that information.

Like I said if Fateh did cost 100K per missile and there were NO BARRIERS to production (everything sourced from within) than Iran would have 10,000 Zolfghars/313/etc for a mere 10-15B dollars spread across X amount of years. and we know that IS NOT the case. So again something is holding back Iranian missile production.

logical answer is Iran still for whatever reason decides to import certain things wether it’s economic cost or inability of production who knows.

 

[VEVAK]

It is well documented Iran imports for its missile program, I don’t have the time to spoon feed you that information.

Like I said if Fateh did cost 100K per missile and there were NO BARRIERS to production (everything sourced from within) than Iran would have 10,000 Zolfghars/313/etc for a mere 10-15B dollars spread across X amount of years. and we know that IS NOT the case. So again something is holding back Iranian missile production.

logical answer is Iran still for whatever reason decides to import certain things wether it’s economic cost or inability of production who knows.

I said Fateh-110 costs under 100K I didn't say Zolfaghar, Dezful, or even the 313 cost that much! The others are missiles Iran's produced just in the past 5 years as appose to the Fatteh-110 A-D that have been in production since 2001 and it's only been in the past decade that they have had the capability to hit targets as small as Aircraft bunkers.... Also, after almost 2 decades what makes you think Iran's stocks isn't already at well over 5,000 Fateh series (That's including all models)?

 

[Sineva]

Very Nice!
Where did you find that?,its probably the best one that I`ve seen.

 

[TheImmortal]

I said Fateh-110 costs under 100K I didn't say Zolfaghar, Dezful, or even the 313 cost that much! The others are missiles Iran's produced just in the past 5 years as appose to the Fatteh-110 A-D that have been in production since 2001 and it's only been in the past decade that they have had the capability to hit targets as small as Aircraft bunkers.... Also, after almost 2 decades what makes you think Iran's stocks isn't already at well over 5,000 Fateh series (That's including all models)?

So now you are backtracking and saying early generations of Fateh series cost under 100K LOL! How do you know early gens are even being produced? How do you know cost? All speculation and conjecture.

And it would be highly unusual for F-110 to have 100K price tag and 313 which is a composite body smaller warhead to suddenly be 500K for example. The discrepancy wouldn’t be that large. The most expensive out of all of them would be Zolfghar as it is a newer and longer range missile.

Nonetheless If Iran did have 5,000 Fatehs they wouldn’t be firing 5-10 in a single attack (ISIS attack one, ISIS attack 2, Kurdistan attack, US attack) they would fire 30+ of the older stock at a time.

I would be shocked if Iran’s ENTIRE BM arsenal reaches 5,000. We have already had this debate so let’s not get into it again. Pentagon assessment is 2,000 BMs and I give a margin of error of +1,000 missiles so 3,000 is a conservative assessment. But even that could be rosy. No proof just speculation (just like you).

 

[PeeD]

Nonetheless If Iran did have 5,000 Fatehs they wouldn’t be firing 5-10 in a single attack (ISIS attack one, ISIS attack 2, Kurdistan attack, US attack) they would fire 30+ of the older stock at a time.

Much is about the legitimacy of such strikes, Iran is not on the disproportionate response path like th U.S and Israel.
Funnily enough they only needed a single missile for the attack on the Kurdish PJAK HQ and simply shot 5 or so other Fatehs into their open training grounds, just to deliver the capability message.

ISIS attack on the other hand required new Zolfaghars, which were significantly more expensive than F-110 and the arsenal was still low.

Friends: For those like me who track Irans arsenal via google earth, these numbers like 2000 or 5000 are a joke... F-110 is the low-end tactical strike assets of the whole IRGC, the basis of their capability. Remember the IRGC was the force that chose to omit creating their own airforce and go a novel path or replacing airpower with missile power, at a time, after the war, where nobody could dream of capabilities like today. They represent indigenous Iranian style of warfare.
Don't be confused by their 40 Su-22... they are for special requirements where air launched cruise missiles or cheap heavy bombing are required.
How important do you think their F-110 arsenal is for them?

 

[sahureka2]

Very Nice!
Where did you find that?,its probably the best one that I`ve seen.

I found it while doing a search on the web, and I immediately downloaded it, but I did not save the address and I can no longer find it