IRIAF | News and Discussions

[Hack-Hook]

What if it’s powered by a single J-79 instead of J-85?

Iran is rumored to be working on a reverse engineered J-79.

well that change everything but can you fit it in a Borhan sized Airplane ? (J-85 130cm long and 45cm wide , J-79 520cm long and 98cm wide)
also I was not aware Iran is working on a Turbo jet Engine with the size and power of J-79

a Yak-130 uses two engine that each one is at least twice as powerful as J-85

 

[TheImmortal]

well that change everything but can you fit it in a Borhan sized Airplane ? (J-85 130cm long and 45cm wide , J-79 520cm long and 98cm wide)
also I was not aware Iran is working on a Turbo jet Engine with the size and power of J-79

a Yak-130 uses two engine that each one is at least twice as powerful as J-85

Valid point. But you may be wrong on how powerful the yak-130 engines are truly are. I am getting that it is between a combined 42-49 knt for both engines (~22 knt each)

Iran could potentially use two afterburner variants of Owj engine which would kick combined knt to 38 (19 x 2) which would still lag behind the world class of Yak-130 dual engines. However, for a country like Iran this might be sufficientally acceptable

Iran said upon the revealing of domestic J-85 that it is working on a heavy turbo jet engine and it would be ready in 2 years.

Given how much love Iran has for western engines, the next logical step would be J-85 with a possible potential for RD-33.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Valid point. But you may be wrong on how powerful the yak-130 engines are truly are. I am getting that it is between a combined 42-49 knt for both engines (~22 knt each)

Iran could potentially use two afterburner variants of Owj engine which would kick combined knt to 38 (19 x 2) which would still lag behind the world class of Yak-130 dual engines. However, for a country like Iran this might be sufficientally acceptable

Iran said upon the revealing of domestic J-85 that it is working on a heavy turbo jet engine and it would be ready in 2 years.

Given how much love Iran has for western engines, the next logical step would be J-85 with a possible potential for RD-33.

using afterburner result in several time higher fuel consumption , you must decide your airplane fly for 1 hours or 20min
by the way each AL-122 is 24.7kn without afterburner and 41.2kn with afterburner. which is essentially two or more time more powerful than J-85.
by the way a for CAS roles the air craft must be able to fulfill some needs ,for example can stand Manpads , and for that you need two engine that are separated from each other . , you need to be able to carry at least 3-4T of weapon . you must be able to stand some amount of fire by anti aircraft guns .

look at underside of Yak-130

Su-25

A-10

look at how the engines and wings are designed

 

[sahureka2]

using afterburner result in several time higher fuel consumption , you must decide your airplane fly for 1 hours or 20min
by the way each AL-122 is 24.7kn without afterburner and 41.2kn with afterburner. which is essentially two or more time more powerful than J-85.
by the way a for CAS roles the air craft must be able to fulfill some needs ,for example can stand Manpads , and for that you need two engine that are separated from each other . , you need to be able to carry at least 3-4T of weapon . you must be able to stand some amount of fire by anti aircraft guns .

look at underside of Yak-130

Su-25

A-10

look at how the engines and wings are designed

separate engines as well as in the Kowsar

 

[Hack-Hook]

separate engines as well as in the Kowsar

Loss at have one problem and that's j85 . that engine is weak . if we change that engine then that airplane can be a lot more useful than just a trainer.

 

[un4given.1991]

Loss at have one problem and that's j85 . that engine is weak . if we change that engine then that airplane can be a lot more useful than just a trainer.

it was clearly mentioned in video that it would be equipped with TWO TURBOFAN ENGINES.

clearly a Northrop N350 design just like AIDC AT-3 & CASA C-101 (and maybe Mikoyan MiG-AT)

 

[Hack-Hook]

it was clearly mentioned in video that it would be equipped with TWO TURBOFAN ENGINES.

clearly a Northrop N350 design just like AIDC AT-3 & CASA C-101 (and maybe Mikoyan MiG-AT)

Empty weight 4600kg Max takeoff weight 6180kg it means 1580kg of fuel and weapons

now look at
AIDC AT3 Empty weight: 3855kg Max. takeoff weight: 7940kg or 4085kg of fuel and weapons
Mikoyan MiG-AT Loaded weight: 4,610 kg Max. takeoff weight: 7,800 kg or 3190kg of additional load

now look at
CASA C-101EB Empty weight: 3,800 kg Max. takeoff weight: 5,600 kg or 1800kg of weapon and fuels
clearly more of a trainer to something designed for CAS
you clearly cant compare first two on engine power with Kosar trainer and all these point to J-85 not the other engine in development Kosar is also comparable CASA C-101EB when it come two missions but sadly for some reasons mainly engine problem
J-85 weight Half of Garrett TFE731-2 but consume fuel twice as much and produce 3000kN less power
it means Kosar consume 4 time fuel and is 800kg heavier. and it need to carry 4 time as much fuel to stay in air the same amount of time as CASA C-101EB. you see still the engine problem

 

[Sineva]

it was clearly mentioned in video that it would be equipped with TWO TURBOFAN ENGINES.

clearly a Northrop N350 design just like AIDC AT-3 & CASA C-101 (and maybe Mikoyan MiG-AT)

IF that is the case and it is turbofan powered,and I for one think that is a rather big "IF",then what could those turbofans possibly be,or what could they be based on/copies of?,about the only one that I could think of would be the Ivchenko AL-25 turbofan from the syrian af L-39,unless of course iran was able to acquire examples of other tf engines and reverse/reengineer them.
Anyone got any possible ideas on they type of turbofans?

 

[TheImmortal]

J-90 under development.

At the time of Owj reveal 2 years ago, Iran said there was an engine 4 TIMES MORE POWERFUL than Owj currently in testing stages.

Furthermore, they also said in 2 years Iran would unveil a HEAVY turbojet engine and turbofan engine.

Iran has also worked secertly to get its hands on the latest blueprints of cutting edge advanced jet engines. Wether they have been successful or not i am not sure.

Iran fighter projects currently in development:

*Qaher
*Unnamed heavy fighter project
*Borhan
*Kosar
*IRGC close air support fighter
*Sofreh Mahi unmanned drone
*Sofreh Mahi manned fighter
*Next-gen RQ—170
*Saeghe III

 

[sahureka2]

Empty weight 4600kg Max takeoff weight 6180kg it means 1580kg of fuel and weapons

now look at
AIDC AT3 Empty weight: 3855kg Max. takeoff weight: 7940kg or 4085kg of fuel and weapons
Mikoyan MiG-AT Loaded weight: 4,610 kg Max. takeoff weight: 7,800 kg or 3190kg of additional load

now look at
CASA C-101EB Empty weight: 3,800 kg Max. takeoff weight: 5,600 kg or 1800kg of weapon and fuels
clearly more of a trainer to something designed for CAS
you clearly cant compare first two on engine power with Kosar trainer and all these point to J-85 not the other engine in development Kosar is also comparable CASA C-101EB when it come two missions but sadly for some reasons mainly engine problem
J-85 weight Half of Garrett TFE731-2 but consume fuel twice as much and produce 3000kN less power
it means Kosar consume 4 time fuel and is 800kg heavier. and it need to carry 4 time as much fuel to stay in air the same amount of time as CASA C-101EB. you see still the engine problem

we are discussing engines, but if a nation does not have access to these new engines, it can not do anything but use only what is available.
Motors, at the moment it seems that only the Iranian version of the J85 is available;
will have improved the power and fuel consumption?
nothing is still certain
therefore the Iranian technicians will have to make necessity of virtue and draw around these engines the Kowsar and not just the Kowsar.
So, at the moment, making comparisons with foreign aircraft made with direct support or having free access to products of important and famous US-Russia-China-Italy-France-GB national aeronautical industries, is at least not advisable.
Probably the Iranian authorities have often exaggerated in expounding some pharaonic projects that were only on paper, but Koswar can mark the turning point of the Iranian aviation industry entering definitively the restricted club that designs and manufactures military aircraft.

 

[un4given.1991]

Empty weight 4600kg Max takeoff weight 6180kg it means 1580kg of fuel and weapons

now look at
AIDC AT3 Empty weight: 3855kg Max. takeoff weight: 7940kg or 4085kg of fuel and weapons
Mikoyan MiG-AT Loaded weight: 4,610 kg Max. takeoff weight: 7,800 kg or 3190kg of additional load

now look at
CASA C-101EB Empty weight: 3,800 kg Max. takeoff weight: 5,600 kg or 1800kg of weapon and fuels
clearly more of a trainer to something designed for CAS
you clearly cant compare first two on engine power with Kosar trainer and all these point to J-85 not the other engine in development Kosar is also comparable CASA C-101EB when it come two missions but sadly for some reasons mainly engine problem
J-85 weight Half of Garrett TFE731-2 but consume fuel twice as much and produce 3000kN less power
it means Kosar consume 4 time fuel and is 800kg heavier. and it need to carry 4 time as much fuel to stay in air the same amount of time as CASA C-101EB. you see still the engine problem

i was referring to jet Design just like how Mitsubishi F-2 is derived F-16 not jet Performance.

 

[Sineva]

we are discussing engines, but if a nation does not have access to these new engines, it can not do anything but use only what is available.
Motors, at the moment it seems that only the Iranian version of the J85 is available;
will have improved the power and fuel consumption?
nothing is still certain
therefore the Iranian technicians will have to make necessity of virtue and draw around these engines the Kowsar and not just the Kowsar.
So, at the moment, making comparisons with foreign aircraft made with direct support or having free access to products of important and famous US-Russia-China-Italy-France-GB national aeronautical industries, is at least not advisable.
Probably the Iranian authorities have often exaggerated in expounding some pharaonic projects that were only on paper, but Koswar can mark the turning point of the Iranian aviation industry entering definitively the restricted club that designs and manufactures military aircraft.

Yes,I agree up to a point,but is it really worth expending the time,money,effort and other resources when all you`re going to produce is an obsolescent design.This is basically the same problem that I have with irans blue water naval vessels.
But on the other hand I suppose you have to start somewhere.......I guess.

 

[Hack-Hook]

we are discussing engines, but if a nation does not have access to these new engines, it can not do anything but use only what is available.
Motors, at the moment it seems that only the Iranian version of the J85 is available;
will have improved the power and fuel consumption?
nothing is still certain
therefore the Iranian technicians will have to make necessity of virtue and draw around these engines the Kowsar and not just the Kowsar.
So, at the moment, making comparisons with foreign aircraft made with direct support or having free access to products of important and famous US-Russia-China-Italy-France-GB national aeronautical industries, is at least not advisable.
Probably the Iranian authorities have often exaggerated in expounding some pharaonic projects that were only on paper, but Koswar can mark the turning point of the Iranian aviation industry entering definitively the restricted club that designs and manufactures military aircraft.

we get our hand on RQ-170 Engine that we could use as base ,it used a light Turbofan engine not 4 time as powerful as j-85 but enough powerful that a single engine could provide CASA C-101EB like performance for Aircraft like Borhan, using a Turbo jet engine only increase flight /hours cost.

 

[VEVAK]

If it can be a naval attack fighter, it will fill a need nitch.

Iran would be attacked from some carrier group. Can these fighters can deploy antiship missiles.

50 fighters launching multiple antiship missiles at a carrier group at the same time would be a joy.

Iranian F-4's can barley handle carrying two 300km Iranian air launched anti ship missiles let alone light CAS fighters!



So any Air Launched anti-ship missile that could be installed on an Iranian built CAS fighter will have a max range of well under 50 knots (-90km) which means your CAS fighter will have to get within range of U.S. SAM's

And Iranian CAS fighter armed with Anti-ship missiles will at best have a combat radius of 300km (from their Base) and current Iranian Air Launch Nasr missiles that they could potentially be armed with at best have an operational range of 50km so that's 350km from Air Force bases that can launch these fighters which means your better off just launching costal anti ship missiles and UAV's that can be deployed all across Iranian shores!!!!!!!

Also, since Iran will NEVER be the one who starts hostilities if you want your fighters to have any chance of surviving you have to build fortified bunkers and various Air Defense equipment and in that regard the price you pay for a $10 Million USD fighter as appose to a $100 Million USD fighter is the same.

so cheaper low cost CAS fighter don't always come out cheaper at the end! And they become far less useful in a country the size of Iran!

 

[Sineva]

we get our hand on RQ-170 Engine that we could use as base ,it used a light Turbofan engine not 4 time as powerful as j-85 but enough powerful that a single engine could provide CASA C-101EB like performance for Aircraft like Borhan, using a Turbo jet engine only increase flight /hours cost.

Yes,the consensus was that a version of the ge TF-34 was used to power the RQ-170,which is also used in the A10.This would actually have been a very good engine to use both for a ground attack machine as well as a light fighter.