Iranian Space program

[TheImmortal]

Speeds of around Mach 20-25 are orbital velocity speeds depending on your weight and altitude... Feel free to look it up and do your own calculations! So any missile capable of reaching those speeds will be an ICBM and not a 2500km missile!

Kinetic energy also has it's own formula feel free to look that up too and do your own calculation so if a 2000lb mass hits something at Mach 10 that impact alone will create 5,336 MJ of thermal energy which is a power equal to 1.28 tones of TNT now if I change that speed to Mach 20 the power would equal to 5 tones of TNT so basically you would have the power of a very tiny tactical nuke (smaller than Davy Crockettt) without the radioactive fallout with far better penetration capability which is even better than a nuke so you really wouldn't need explosives if you could actually achieve those speeds without burning up on impact....
If my calculations are wrong feel free to point them out!

And yes a missile with 8 RV's will be expensive but in terms of price if produced at home it wouldn't be much different than the cost of 8 missiles that can only carry 1 RV with launch platforms and everything else that they would need! And that's far more doable than something that would need to reach speeds of Mach 10 or higher within the atmosphere without it burning up

1) Incorrect the Missile doesn’t have to be an ICBM. Since HGV ride their own shockwaves during decent it allows to them to DOUBLE their range as they “glide” or “skip” at 50-100 KM alititude.

2) Assuming the KE of Shahab-3 warhead is based on release height (apogee) of the Missile. Do you have any relevant data?

Assuming the Shahab-3 releases 1000kg warhead at an apogee of 400 miles altitude that means it will achieve speeds of roughly Mach 10 before impact. However that doesn’t take into account atmospheric friction. Assuming standard atmospheric reduction of 30% on speed (US/Russia ICBM rates). That drops terminal velocity to Mach 7, that translates to KE of .75 TNT.

HOWEVER that is NOT the final step. That is merely the KE PRIOR to impact. To get actual impact force it relies on long the object travels AFTER impact. An object that has greater penetration has LESS force. In fact the most impact force is dealt by an object that BOUNCES on impact thus transfering greater change of momentum.

So how long does a 1000kg Emad warhead travel after impact? That is great question and one I don’t know. So what I did was just guess. Assuming a Emad warhead travels even 10 meters penetration upon impact....that reduces the KE of the object to MERELY .03 Tons of TNT.

I could be wrong here so feel free to double check my math.

Now if Iran develops a 3000KM and launches into straight into the air it will reach apogee of roughly 1500 KM which would translate to impact force of .35 tons of TNT almost a 10 factor fold increase. However, this assumes an highly efficient warhead with near zero atmospheric friction (unrealistic).

Now back to your Davey crocket which had a yield of 10-15 tons. For Iran to achieve even half that (5 tons). It would need an Missile with the following:

6,000KG warhead with ZERO speed loss due to atmospheric friction
Mach 22 speed
10 meter penetration on impact (unrealistic)

Even if the above factors hold then it achieves 4.5 tons TNT of IMPACT force.

Again check my math, as this isn’t my area of expertise.

This is why I am against Iran’s current BM strategy. It simply doesn’t make sense. If Iran wants to stay non-nuclear then it needs to focus on KE warheads with maximum impact transfer and HGV vehicles for greater probability of success as well as speed.

 

[VEVAK]

1) Incorrect the Missile doesn’t have to be an ICBM. Since HGV ride their own shockwaves during decent it allows to them to DOUBLE their range as they “glide” or “skip” at 50-100 KM alititude.

2) Assuming the KE of Shahab-3 warhead is based on release height (apogee) of the Missile. Do you have any relevant data?

Assuming the Shahab-3 releases 1000kg warhead at an apogee of 400 miles altitude that means it will achieve speeds of roughly Mach 10 before impact. However that doesn’t take into account atmospheric friction. Assuming standard atmospheric reduction of 30% on speed (US/Russia ICBM rates). That drops terminal velocity to Mach 7, that translates to KE of .75 TNT.

HOWEVER that is NOT the final step. That is merely the KE PRIOR to impact. To get actual impact force it relies on long the object travels AFTER impact. An object that has greater penetration has LESS force. In fact the most impact force is dealt by an object that BOUNCES on impact thus transfering greater change of momentum.

So how long does a 1000kg Emad warhead travel after impact? That is great question and one I don’t know. So what I did was just guess. Assuming a Emad warhead travels even 10 meters penetration upon impact....that reduces the KE of the object to MERELY .03 Tons of TNT.

I could be wrong here so feel free to double check my math.

Now if Iran develops a 3000KM and launches into straight into the air it will reach apogee of roughly 1500 KM which would translate to impact force of .35 tons of TNT almost a 10 factor fold increase. However, this assumes an highly efficient warhead with near zero atmospheric friction (unrealistic).

Now back to your Davey crocket which had a yield of 10-15 tons. For Iran to achieve even half that (5 tons). It would need an Missile with the following:

6,000KG warhead with ZERO speed loss due to atmospheric friction
Mach 22 speed
10 meter penetration on impact (unrealistic)

Even if the above factors hold then it achieves 4.5 tons TNT of IMPACT force.

Again check my math, as this isn’t my area of expertise.

This is why I am against Iran’s current BM strategy. It simply doesn’t make sense. If Iran wants to stay non-nuclear then it needs to focus on KE warheads with maximum impact transfer and HGV vehicles for greater probability of success as well as speed.

K.E.(Joules) = 1/2 m v2 (1/2 Mass X Velocity square) (FYI one stick of Dynamite is about 1 Megajoules of energy)

So if your velocity is Mach 7 upon impact and your mass is 1000kg then you KE is 2882 MJ or 2.88 Billion Joules and that's equal to 0.68 Tons of TNT
And if you could reach a velocity of Mach 22 with a 6000kg warhead upon impact you will have 170819 MJ and that's a power equivalent to 40 TONES of TNT and thats a nuke basically!

And I can tell you most definitely that the Shahab 3 does NOT reach a speed of anywhere close to Mach 7 upon impact

Also if Iran could reach a apogee of 1500km with a 1000kg warhead that would be an ICBM and not no 3000km missile.....

 

[TheImmortal]

K.E.(Joules) = 1/2 m v2 (1/2 Mass X Velocity square) (FYI one stick of Dynamite is about 1 Megajoules of energy)

So if your velocity is Mach 7 upon impact and your mass is 1000kg then you KE is 2882 MJ or 2.88 Billion Joules and that's equal to 0.68 Tons of TNT
And if you could reach a velocity of Mach 22 with a 6000kg warhead upon impact you will have 170819 MJ and that's a power equivalent to 40 TONES of TNT and thats a nuke basically!

And I can tell you most definitely that the Shahab 3 does NOT reach a speed of anywhere close to Mach 7 upon impact

Also if Iran could reach a apogee of 1500km with a 1000kg warhead that would be an ICBM and not no 3000km missile.....

Your equation doesn’t take into account loss of energy due to impact penetration. You are merely calculating energy prior to impact.

I don’t think that is correct way.

Maybe @PeeD can shine light on this.

Estimating Shahab-3’s speed is based on simple gravity. An object dropped from a certain height (apogee) will achieve a natural terminal velocity. Now I also took into account 30% loss due to atmospheric friction.

However, terminal velocity of newly designed Emad warheads is classified.

I was able to find information that old shahab-3’s had terminal velocity of Mach 2.5-3.5

 

[PeeD]

Basically speaking the dynamic pressure on the structure is the limiting factor in these cases.

The stress on any structure, will at some point reach thermal and structural limits at sea level (impact).

Generally a hardened and thermally protected structure can achieve speeds of mach 3-3,5 with today's materials.

Russian hypersonic technology claims to have overcome the thermal aspect of this limitation to a considerable degree with the Avantgard. But what we call hypersonics move at those speeds at high altitudes, they would always decelerate to supersonic speeds upon impact in order to avoid disintegration.

The key to hypersonic technology is materials and thermal management, they never reach dynamic pressures that would theoretically occur at sea level hypersonic speeds.

Short:
- A pointed nickel-superalloy steel rod would evaporate at hypersonic sea level dense air.
- A SR-71 or MIG-31 would disintegrate at mach 3 sea level (and of course never reach those speeds at sea level due to the dynamic pressure).

One of the main arguments for hypersonics is their short warning time for opposing early warning. Its impact speed will always be limited.

 

[VEVAK]

Basically speaking the dynamic pressure on the structure is the limiting factor in these cases.

The stress on any structure, will at some point reach thermal and structural limits at sea level (impact).

Generally a hardened and thermally protected structure can achieve speeds of mach 3-3,5 with today's materials.

Russian hypersonic technology claims to have overcome the thermal aspect of this limitation to a considerable degree with the Avantgard. But what we call hypersonics move at those speeds at high altitudes, they would always decelerate to supersonic speeds upon impact in order to avoid disintegration.

The key to hypersonic technology is materials and thermal management, they never reach dynamic pressures that would theoretically occur at sea level hypersonic speeds.

Short:
- A pointed nickel-superalloy steel rod would evaporate at hypersonic sea level dense air.
- A SR-71 or MIG-31 would disintegrate at mach 3 sea level (and of course never reach those speeds at sea level due to the dynamic pressure).

One of the main arguments for hypersonics is their short warning time for opposing early warning. Its impact speed will always be limited.

Dynamic pressure and the materials you would need to hit something at sea level at hypersonic speed aside how would you calculate the Kinetic energy....

Let say you have 1000kg of highly compressed tungsten steel treated to withstand those conditions impacting a sea level target at a velocity of Mach 10 (12348 km/h) how would you go about calculating the kinetic energy of that impact....

Also, wouldn't a missile capable of reaching speeds of Mach 22 with a 1 tone warhead basically be an ICBM due to the fact that it's basically reaching orbital velocity speeds?

Also, wouldn't a missile capable of reaching an apogee of 1,500km with a 1 ton warhead basically be an ICBM?

 

[TheImmortal]

Dynamic pressure and the materials you would need to hit something at sea level at hypersonic speed aside how would you calculate the Kinetic energy....

Let say you have 1000kg of highly compressed tungsten steel treated to withstand those conditions impacting a sea level target at a velocity of Mach 10 (12348 km/h) how would you go about calculating the kinetic energy of that impact....

Also, wouldn't a missile capable of reaching speeds of Mach 22 with a 1 tone warhead basically be an ICBM due to the fact that it's basically reaching orbital velocity speeds?

Also, wouldn't a missile capable of reaching an apogee of 1,500km with a 1 ton warhead basically be an ICBM?

I am not a physics expert but I feel you have to take into account the distance an object travels upon impact. If not, then everyone would simply create KE based rod weapons. The idea is used in interceptors for ABM, but not as BM.

Example, if a car is going 100 mph and slams into another car, simply calculating the energy that car has PRIOR to impact is not correct if you want force of impact. You have to taken into account how much (feet or inches etc) of penetration/indentation the impacting car did on the impacted car.

This basic premise of work energy transfer is how cars survive terrible accidents. The goal is the impacted car can “absorb” as much of the energy and dispel/transfer it away from critical areas.

If your equation was correct A Fateh-110 carrying a 750kg warhead impacting at Mach 3.5 would unleash .61 tons of TNT KE energy alone.

As the images of post strikes in Kurdistan and Syria have shown, that is simply not the case.

 

[PeeD]

Dynamic pressure and the materials you would need to hit something at sea level at hypersonic speed aside how would you calculate the Kinetic energy....

Let say you have 1000kg of highly compressed tungsten steel treated to withstand those conditions impacting a sea level target at a velocity of Mach 10 (12348 km/h) how would you go about calculating the kinetic energy of that impact....

Also, wouldn't a missile capable of reaching speeds of Mach 22 with a 1 tone warhead basically be an ICBM due to the fact that it's basically reaching orbital velocity speeds?

Also, wouldn't a missile capable of reaching an apogee of 1,500km with a 1 ton warhead basically be an ICBM?

I don't really want to interfere in the discussion of you two. I think it is important to point out the max Q/dynamic pressure issue regarding hypersonics.

As for you questions:
The definition of kinetic energy is of course m*v²
Burnout speed is proportional to range and altitude (on earth).

There is a roumor that Iraqis, at their peak before the Kuwait invasion experimented with a re-enforced concrete warhead for their 300-400kg warhead weight extended range SCUDs. Apparently destructive power was worth considering this.

I also wonder whether the recently used Zolfaghars against Daesh had some kind of kinetic warheads to kill soft targets via the shockwave instead of chemical explosion.

 

[VEVAK]

I am not a physics expert but I feel you have to take into account the distance an object travels upon impact. If not, then everyone would simply create KE based rod weapons. The idea is used in interceptors for ABM, but not as BM.

Example, if a car is going 100 mph and slams into another car, simply calculating the energy that car has PRIOR to impact is not correct if you want force of impact. You have to taken into account how much (feet or inches etc) of penetration/indentation the impacting car did on the impacted car.

This basic premise of work energy transfer is how cars survive terrible accidents. The goal is the impacted car can “absorb” as much of the energy and dispel/transfer it away from critical areas.

If your equation was correct A Fateh-110 carrying a 750kg warhead impacting at Mach 3.5 would unleash .61 tons of TNT KE energy alone.

As the images of post strikes in Kurdistan and Syria have shown, that is simply not the case.

The reason people don't create KE based BM rods is due to the fact that the speeds they would need to reach to make it worth while like hitting something at Mach 20 at sea level is simply unrealistic and even if it was possible it would be extremely costly! Mass is also a defying factor and it would cost money to launch heaver objects into space....

And wrong again! An 750kg object with a velocity of Mach 3.5 would have a KE of 540MJ which would be about 0.123 tones of TNT

And by the way the Fatteh-110 max speed is Mach 3.5 not it's impact velocity

 

[skyshadow]

Iran’s Dousti Satellite to Be Launched Soon: Minister

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/...dousti-satellite-to-be-launched-soon-minister

Iran University of Science and Technology, another satellite named “Zafar (victory)”, set to be put into the 500-600km orbit, will be delivered by September.

 

[scythian500]

Iran’s Dousti Satellite to Be Launched Soon: Minister

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/...dousti-satellite-to-be-launched-soon-minister

Iran University of Science and Technology, another satellite named “Zafar (victory)”, set to be put into the 500-600km orbit, will be delivered by September.

Zafar will have a life span of 3 years in 600 km orbit. Dusti sat which is getting ready to be launched soon has a resolution of 6 meters and then there is Payam 2 Satelite who will have a resolution of 1 meters.

 

[skyshadow]

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-vows-to-send-man-into-space-within-five-years/

Iran Vows to Send Man Into Space Within Five Years


"In the framework of a five-year plan, we intend to launch a man into space on our own, in order to become one of the aerospace industry powers," the news report stated, according to a translationprovided by the Middle East Media Research Institute. "We hope to see that day."


"Currently, we have prepared other satellites for launch," the report states. "The Toulou satellite [is designed] for distant measurements. The Nahid satellite [is designed] to test the opening of solar panels [on satellites] and [for] the sending and receiving of images. The Zafar satellite [is designed] for tri-spectral photography. The Sharif, Ghaem, and Paris satellites have visible-spectrum and infrared cameras. The IranSat-1 communications satellite [is designed] to test systems for the withstanding of cosmic radiation."


"We built the Navid and Simorgh carrier rockets, which were more advanced," the report disclosed. "The former reached speeds of approximately 28,000 km/h and the latter was even faster. They also carried heavier satellites. Eventually, we designed the Ghaem carrier rocket. This Ghaem rocket was a project of the martyr Tehrani Moghaddam and it had a four-stage engine. Only a few countries possess this technology."

 

[TheImmortal]

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-vows-to-send-man-into-space-within-five-years/

Iran Vows to Send Man Into Space Within Five Years


"In the framework of a five-year plan, we intend to launch a man into space on our own, in order to become one of the aerospace industry powers," the news report stated, according to a translationprovided by the Middle East Media Research Institute. "We hope to see that day."


"Currently, we have prepared other satellites for launch," the report states. "The Toulou satellite [is designed] for distant measurements. The Nahid satellite [is designed] to test the opening of solar panels [on satellites] and [for] the sending and receiving of images. The Zafar satellite [is designed] for tri-spectral photography. The Sharif, Ghaem, and Paris satellites have visible-spectrum and infrared cameras. The IranSat-1 communications satellite [is designed] to test systems for the withstanding of cosmic radiation."


"We built the Navid and Simorgh carrier rockets, which were more advanced," the report disclosed. "The former reached speeds of approximately 28,000 km/h and the latter was even faster. They also carried heavier satellites. Eventually, we designed the Ghaem carrier rocket. This Ghaem rocket was a project of the martyr Tehrani Moghaddam and it had a four-stage engine. Only a few countries possess this technology."

The fact they talk about Ghaem in past tense “was” “had” leads me to believe they shelved this project. Or that they took whatever they learned and moved onto to something else.

 

[sha ah]

https://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-vows-to-send-man-into-space-within-five-years/

Iran Vows to Send Man Into Space Within Five Years


"In the framework of a five-year plan, we intend to launch a man into space on our own, in order to become one of the aerospace industry powers," the news report stated, according to a translationprovided by the Middle East Media Research Institute. "We hope to see that day."


"Currently, we have prepared other satellites for launch," the report states. "The Toulou satellite [is designed] for distant measurements. The Nahid satellite [is designed] to test the opening of solar panels [on satellites] and [for] the sending and receiving of images. The Zafar satellite [is designed] for tri-spectral photography. The Sharif, Ghaem, and Paris satellites have visible-spectrum and infrared cameras. The IranSat-1 communications satellite [is designed] to test systems for the withstanding of cosmic radiation."


"We built the Navid and Simorgh carrier rockets, which were more advanced," the report disclosed. "The former reached speeds of approximately 28,000 km/h and the latter was even faster. They also carried heavier satellites. Eventually, we designed the Ghaem carrier rocket. This Ghaem rocket was a project of the martyr Tehrani Moghaddam and it had a four-stage engine. Only a few countries possess this technology."

I recall them saying the exact same thing a few years ago no ? Honestly they could probably do it sooner but its just a matter of funding. Maybe a joint project with North Korea ? LOL I don't think the timing is right though since Kim is looking to see what he can get out of dumbo (Trump)

 

[skyshadow]

I recall them saying the exact same thing a few years ago no ? Honestly they could probably do it sooner but its just a matter of funding. Maybe a joint project with North Korea ? LOL I don't think the timing is right though since Kim is looking to see what he can get out of dumbo (Trump)

yes they said that few years ago but this time its joint project with Russia the Russian Space organization is training 10 of our pilots and is scheduled to send our top 2 pilots in to space, after that Iran will do it self.

 

[skyshadow]