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But what I would like to see Iran and China do is co-development of a stealth interceptor UCAV that would lead towards a joint R&D program towards a 6th Gen fighter (Airframe) that can be fitted to do strikes or air superiority in the future. Joint hi speed helo programs that use rear vectoring propellers and advanced fly by wire systems with Helo's capable of reaching speeds nearing 500kph. Joint programs in the development of highly capable BLDC engines, advanced composites, UGV,....
Basically deepening ties to a point where Iran and China would a relationship and partnership far better than what the Israeli's have with the U.S.

Why don’t you ask for a city in China to be named after an Iranian poet while your at it

This man lives in denial. You want the Islamic Republic that imprisons/executes citizens for blasphemy and “crimes against God” to have deep strategic relationship with a country that rejects the notion of God? And that relationship to be “far better” than what Israel has with US? Haha where do you come up with this stuff?

If you listen to Iranian officials talk about Chinese reliability and military partnership it is mostly negative!

China already has a banana country ally in Pakistan, so unless Iran is willing to give China a military base or Navy base strategically located in the PG, China doesn’t NEED anything from Iran. It already has way more knowledge, money, and expertise in the fields you mentioned. Working with Iran would be like a charity case for it, China doesn’t do anything out of the goodness of its heart.

If China would have strategically aligned with anyone by now it would have been Russia. That did not happen. Unfortunately, it is following largely in the path of russia in that it refuses to have any strategic military allies (minus Pakistan). That will be it’s downfall one day. Even Hitler couldn’t take on the whole world and win.
 
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There is at best little chance of Iran buying big-ticket items from China. The last time that happened was in the 90s, and even then the C-802 deal was cut off by the US and Iran had to reverse-engineer the missile to get an acceptable number of ASCMs. The maximum extent of Iranian-Chinese defence cooperation for now is in electronics sub-components. I think even when the sanctions are lifted soon, Iran won't buy much if anything from China.

On the subject of the Khalije Fars "destroyer"... are people paying attention to the reported 200 m length of this vessel, and how massive that is? That's bigger than most cruisers. Ticonderoga-class is 173 m. Slava class is 186 m. Type 055 is 180 m.
 
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There is at best little chance of Iran buying big-ticket items from China. The last time that happened was in the 90s, and even then the C-802 deal was cut off by the US and Iran had to reverse-engineer the missile to get an acceptable number of ASCMs. The maximum extent of Iranian-Chinese defence cooperation for now is in electronics sub-components. I think even when the sanctions are lifted soon, Iran won't buy much if anything from China.

On the subject of the Khalije Fars "destroyer"... are people paying attention to the reported 200 m length of this vessel, and how massive that is? That's bigger than most cruisers. Ticonderoga-class is 173 m. Slava class is 186 m. Type 055 is 180 m.

As it pertains to Iran with a military vessel at 200 meters your really only looking at 2 things either a replenishment ship like the kharg class or a helo carrier or a combination of the two and from my perspective the most logical thing would be a combo a replenishment ship capable of caring up to 4 helo's + UAV's, UCAV's & Quads because if the plan is to add 4 more Mowj class to the Persian Gulf fleet then we need at least another large replenishment ship to go with them to further expand on Iran's long range missions. And Iran has more than enough Helo's that 4 bell 214's from Army Aviation transferred to the Navy and modified for Naval operations wont be missed (although the best option would be the Ka-27 if that's too expensive then the Ka-226)

And your comparing what China could and couldn't do in the 90's with today's China & the China of the future! And that's short sighted and at China's current rate of development it won't be long before they surpass Russian Tech in every field for they have a far more extensive R&D programs and far more money to work with and I truly doubt it would take them any more than 2 decades to surpass Russia in every field and another 20 years or so to catchup and match or even surpass the U.S. in many fields of military tech (Maybe not all but most).
At the end of the day it's the money and more accurately the resources spent towards military R&D that translates into technology. Not Gene's, Color or Ethnicity.
 
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Size and weight wise it sounds close to the South Korean Jangbogo-III class.

This is quite telling: Iran won't go for a Kilo like double hull design that would explain the large diameter of 10m. The Nahang-Fateh-Besat evolution is single hull.

A single hull with such large diameter tells about its internal layout:
10m is large enough for a VLS for CM or BM.
At 3200t it is likely to have lithium-ion battery based electrical drive instead of a full AIP-only propulsion. Volume and weight are to close to the lithium-ion based Jangbogo-III and to far away from other classes and their propulsion to make sense.
87m is also very long, a clear indication for a 10+ VLS, which is basically the main reason to design such a large sub.

Bear in mind that the Fateh is not based on something Iran somehow captured (RQ-170) or purchased, it is a fully Iranian design. So switching to lithium-ion drive would make sense as Iran is the creator of this design 0-100. Plus lithium-ion drive could give it the quiteness, max. speed and endurance requirements as poentially low cost.

Subsystems, materials and quality controls/standards will be mastered with the 500t class Fateh. The jump to the 1200t Besat might be skipped for a larger sub with VLS for serious strike capability.

I wonder why Tasnimnews didn't pickup on the story since they have a far more extensive Military reporting.

For Iran this would be a project that would likely take 2 decades to complete and get operational since we don't have the experience in building subs that big and this could be a sub that they plan on adding Nuclear Propulsion on.

I believe the best thing Iran's Navy can do is work on force multipliers and larger vessels and rather than having a bunch of Mowj class hulls all over the place waiting to be finished they should have instead worked on a smaller number of larger vessels. For example if rather than working on two Mowj class hulls in Bandar Abbas they had concentrated their efforts on a single larger warship they could have built a larger better armed and equipped vessel with 3-4 times the firepower and defensive capability of a single Mowj at about the same cost as 2 Mowj class ships that would have also taken less time to complete than completing 2 Mowj class at Bandar Abbas.


To me the fact that Iran's Navy is even conducting research on a sub that size is something to be proud of because unlike the Air Force they are not waiting around and are actively giving options to the government. By comparison to the Air Force it would be like them working on Iran's version of a B-2 bomber.
 
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I wonder why Tasnimnews didn't pickup on the story since they have a far more extensive Military reporting.

For Iran this would be a project that would likely take 2 decades to complete and get operational since we don't have the experience in building subs that big and this could be a sub that they plan on adding Nuclear Propulsion on.

I believe the best thing Iran's Navy can do is work on force multipliers and larger vessels and rather than having a bunch of Mowj class hulls all over the place waiting to be finished they should have instead worked on a smaller number of larger vessels. For example if rather than working on two Mowj class hulls in Bandar Abbas they had concentrated their efforts on a single larger warship they could have built a larger better armed and equipped vessel with 3-4 times the firepower and defensive capability of a single Mowj at about the same cost as 2 Mowj class ships that would have also taken less time to complete than completing 2 Mowj class at Bandar Abbas.


To me the fact that Iran's Navy is even conducting research on a sub that size is something to be proud of because unlike the Air Force they are not waiting around and are actively giving options to the government. By comparison to the Air Force it would be like them working on Iran's version of a B-2 bomber.

As said elsewhere, the Navy has no RQ-170 of the seas or S-300 to work upon. They have to do it from scratch, there is no ready design to improve/copy on.
For the Fateh certain technologies had to be mastered. It is a real submarine not a static ambush sub like the Ghadir.

So give them time to make the necessary technologies mature for something more serious. Scaling up subsystems of the Fateh is easier than getting to first Fateh work reliably with Iranian made systems.

Budgets are small but they are on track.
 
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to be honest I doubt they build some thing like that , for start it's not that Aerodynamic
also that sail don't have a diving plane which is a little strange and also have strange design , to be honest it made it made water a lot of vortex around it and made the sub overall somehow unnecessarily noisy .

Diving plane is on the bow of the hull and not on the sail. Its not a strange design. You see that on the Russian top of the line Yasen class submarine and the U.S.'s Virginia class boats.
 
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Commercial Landing Barges used in the great prophet exercises 12
https://en.mehrnews.com/news/140752/VIDEO-IRGC-releases-clip-for-Great-Phorphet-12-massive-drills
from the minute 0:31
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And your comparing what China could and couldn't do in the 90's with today's China & the China of the future! And that's short sighted and at China's current rate of development it won't be long before they surpass Russian Tech in every field for they have a far more extensive R&D programs and far more money to work with and I truly doubt it would take them any more than 2 decades to surpass Russia in every field and another 20 years or so to catchup and match or even surpass the U.S. in many fields of military tech (Maybe not all but most).
At the end of the day it's the money and more accurately the resources spent towards military R&D that translates into technology. Not Gene's, Color or Ethnicity.

Come on use your brain.

China still has not transitioned to a mostly consumer based economy, it still relies on exports.

You think China will risk its export business (2.26 trillion dollars in 2017) for a $10-15 billion arms deal with Iran?

It’s a simple business decision! Answer is no!
 
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Come on use your brain.

China still has not transitioned to a mostly consumer based economy, it still relies on exports.

You think China will risk its export business (2.26 trillion dollars in 2017) for a $10-15 billion arms deal with Iran?

It’s a simple business decision! Answer is no!
If that was true,then china would`ve never taken over all of europes lost trade with iran,now would they?
China isnt a vassal of the west,so it does not have to cut its own throat over trade with iran,and at this point in time for the west there really isnt any other option to trade with china,so trying to threaten it isnt likely to work any better than chumps recent little trade war did.
In addition china needs iranian oil,as much as for strategic reasons as economic.
In addition iran and china dont have any points of geo political conflict or competition.
 
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If that was true,then china would`ve never taken over all of europes lost trade with iran,now would they?
China isnt a vassal of the west,so it does not have to cut its own throat over trade with iran,and at this point in time for the west there really isnt any other option to trade with china,so trying to threaten it isnt likely to work any better than chumps recent little trade war did.
In addition china needs iranian oil,as much as for strategic reasons as economic.
In addition iran and china dont have any points of geo political conflict or competition.
China is not a 'vassal' but still very vulnerable to US pressure and thus not fully independent: https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-c...pars-after-u-s-pressure-sources-idUKKBN1OB0RU
 
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Come on use your brain.

China still has not transitioned to a mostly consumer based economy, it still relies on exports.

You think China will risk its export business (2.26 trillion dollars in 2017) for a $10-15 billion arms deal with Iran?

It’s a simple business decision! Answer is no!

LOL!
Why would China want to transition to a mostly consumer based economy? That's retarded, especially in a country with over 1.3 billion people.
Having a consumer based economy is not difficult and the Chinese could have it tomorrow if they wanted and don't confuse the U.S. moving factories out of the U.S. for cheaper taxes and slave labor with a mostly consumer based economy like Saudi Arabia.....
China is a country of over a Billion people and trade runs both ways and as Chinese technology grows and products keep increasing in quality and as the way of life of Chinese people continues on improving as it has and as China continues to build Chinese factories outside of the country China will naturally have a bigger domestic consumer economy that's mostly supplied and backed by Chinese products that are of higher value. But that doesn't mean they would even want to go to a "mostly consumer based economy"
And sanctioning a country like China that has 1 Billion more people and consumers than the U.S. would be far more hurtful to the U.S. than it would be to China.
Even today if China was to halt all exports to the U.S. well over half of the U.S. will go hungry and a large portion of their consumer based economy will come to a halt where the effects on the Chinese people by comparison would be far less

So yea U.S. is their number one consumer but your confusing who actually holds the upper hand. Now is it worth it for China to even risk business opportunities in the U.S. over Iran clearly NOT but for China this shouldn't be about Iran or any other country this is about China being bullied and like any bully until China stands up and pushes back and pushes back hard the Americans will never stop trying to bully them and why would they. And it may or may not be over Iran but sooner or later the Chinese will push back.
 
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LOL!
Why would China want to transition to a mostly consumer based economy? That's retarded, especially in a country with over 1.3 billion people.
Having a consumer based economy is not difficult and the Chinese could have it tomorrow if they wanted and don't confuse the U.S. moving factories out of the U.S. for cheaper taxes and slave labor with a mostly consumer based economy like Saudi Arabia.....
China is a country of over a Billion people and trade runs both ways and as Chinese technology grows and products keep increasing in quality and as the way of life of Chinese people continues on improving as it has and as China continues to build Chinese factories outside of the country China will naturally have a bigger domestic consumer economy that's mostly supplied and backed by Chinese products that are of higher value. But that doesn't mean they would even want to go to a "mostly consumer based economy"
And sanctioning a country like China that has 1 Billion more people and consumers than the U.S. would be far more hurtful to the U.S. than it would be to China.
Even today if China was to halt all exports to the U.S. well over half of the U.S. will go hungry and a large portion of their consumer based economy will come to a halt where the effects on the Chinese people by comparison would be far less

So yea U.S. is their number one consumer but your confusing who actually holds the upper hand. Now is it worth it for China to even risk business opportunities in the U.S. over Iran clearly NOT but for China this shouldn't be about Iran or any other country this is about China being bullied and like any bully until China stands up and pushes back and pushes back hard the Americans will never stop trying to bully them and why would they. And it may or may not be over Iran but sooner or later the Chinese will push back.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Who wants a consumer based economy? How about nearly ALL countries in the world (including the US) operate under a consumer based economy. At the basic level as consumers spend more and more revenues of corporations rise, allowing companies to expand. I mean the fact you don’t understand this basic economic principle shows your ineptitude.

As China’s economy grows and transforms the salary and living standards of its own population continue to rise, at that point China stands poised to gain immensely from a 1.3 billion population. Furthermore, as wages rise China will eventually reach a mature economy stage where it is no longer an area of “cheap source” labor as they will have implanted minimum wage laws to correspond to the higher standard of living. Thus corporations will simply move operations to another country that DOES have very cheap labor still. Does that mean China will have NO exports? Of course not, but it will be different than what it is today. All countries engage in trade, no one is implying that will stop.

Why do you think so many companies want to capture the wealth from India and China? Because as their citizens gain more purchasing power (rising wages, maturing economy, higher standard of living) these international corporations want a share of that market.

You need to go read up on how economies change over time as they reach various levels of advancement. That’s is one reason China’s GDP growth is slowing from double digit levels to more and more reasonable levels.

Lastly before you mock US sanctions, go see what US sanctions did to the mega corporation known as ZTE. China was powerless in that case. That is just one example. I am not going to spoon feed you.

Even the islamic republic operates more on consumer based economy in order to reduce reliance on oil/gas for its budget.

Don’t expect China to save Iran nor Russia. They will simply play both sides for their own benefit. But some users on this board have this absurd notion that Iran can have Russia and China rescue it military and economically.
 
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China is not a 'vassal' but still very vulnerable to US pressure and thus not fully independent: https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-c...pars-after-u-s-pressure-sources-idUKKBN1OB0RU
I`ve found no independent confirmation of this claim from any official chinese or iranian sources that I could find,indeed every other news source I`ve found with this story appears to simply be parroting the reuters article quoting "unnamed" officials,so at this point without any,ideally,official confirmation from both governments,I would be really very skeptical of this claim,especially in light of the fact that it has only been a month since the official announcement of the cnpc takeover of the total deal.
If this does,surprisingly,actually turn out to be the case then china has effectively.for all intents and purposes,declared its western vassal economic status with this action.Effectively,china would now be no different economically to the eurovassals at this point.Its one thing to agree to buy more us soya beans,its another thing entirely to throw away an energy prize that is this rich ie irans massive lng export potential,which is not only of potentially enormous economic value,but even more importantly,of even far greater strategic value to china,especially at a time when chinas demand for gas just keeps on increasing and its well on track to become the #2 buyer of gas in the world,even more so when the chinese government is officially pushing a coal to gas policy for the chinese populace,and in fact has had to buy spot cargoes to try and make up for the resulting national shortages.
 
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I do not understand the logic behind adding more and more surface vessels without air cover. Imagine a 200 m vessel operating without air cover. If it goes down, it will take moral of forces down with itself.

IRIN needs more submarines with SLBM capability along with newer supersonic AShCM.
 
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