Iranian military engine development news and updates

[TheImmortal]

Maybe Putin has had a change of mind or maybe he will just continue his foolish policy.

He thought if he sold S-400's to Turkey he could flip them against NATO, while in reality, they took the S-400s and then closed of their airspace to Russia now and had delivered equipment to Ukraine.

And now the US/NATO are dissecting the S-400 and have something to train against.

Putin’s desperate desire to be seen as an equal of the West has had disastrous ramifications for Russia. If it weren’t for Europe’s 60% dependence on Russian energy, this country wouldn’t have any cards left to play.

But of course people see Georgia/Maldova/Chenchenya victories and think Putin was a tough guy leader who saved Russia. In some ways he did when the bar was set so low by the treacherous Yeltsin. But compared to what could have been.....not even close.

 

[VEVAK]

Do allies not share technology? You would think Russia would provide Iran with all the information it needs to build more antiquated engines like RD-33 and AL-21. Iran shouldn't have to reverse-engineer Russian technology. If Iran could reverse-engineer the J-85 (which it has done), the J-79, and get all the information it needs for RD-33 and AL-21 it likely wouldn't have any other fighter engine needs. Iran should also be providing Russia with drone technology. Anything Iran wants to build in terms of a fighter jet should work just fine with J85, J79, RD-33, and AL-21 engines. Nothing new is needed.

Iran has invested wisely in ballistic missiles and combat drones. It just needs to be able to modernize it's existing air fleet and build new models of existing aircraft to be extremely effective.

Yes by the most part Iran's vast stock of TBM & UAV's can pick bulk of the responsibility of the Air Force but not all not even close.

Also development of a viable engine or a fighter isn't specifically just about the fighter or the engine. For example, you develop a viable turbofan engine for a fighter you will also have the tech and infrastructure to build a viable engine for passenger aircraft.
Same for avionics, same with metrology & ti aluminum composite needed for the Air Frame....
So no I don't see sticking to the current engines & frames in stock as a viable long term solution because it's not just about a fighter & sometimes the R&D and infrastructure is far more important than the fighter!
Also I'm not a fan of the RD-33! But sure Iran can also build a fighter around that engine so long as it's a twin engine fighter.
Maybe make the Saegheh 25% larger powered by 2 RD-33's

As for sharing tech, IRCG planes have been going back forth to Russia for nearly a week!

My personal view is that Iran and Russia should be in a military alliance, we should have joint military projects, we should have joint opt, intel sharing,.... the whole works. But it needs to be a two way alliance!

I also believe:
West is never going to be Russias ally because they fear you'll eat up Europe (Economically) & they need you as a boggyman over EU.
They'll never be our allies because they need a boggy man to sell weapons to Arabs & the whole issue with Israel.
They'll never be China's allies for obvious reason.

If Russia, Iran, China, India, Pakistan & other don't come together what are we going to do when US Space Force starts sending up 100 tons of payload to LEO EVERY DAY? And trust me it's not that far off. Starlink is nothing compared to whats coming.

 

[strateger]

Also development of a viable engine or a fighter isn't specifically just about the fighter or the engine. For example, you develop a viable turbofan engine for a fighter you will also have the tech and infrastructure to build a viable engine for passenger aircraft.
Same for avionics, same with metrology & ti aluminum composite needed for the Air Frame....

Yes. Is Iran building brand new Kowsars with new materials, avionics packages, weapons capabilities, and new engines instead of just retrofitting existing airframes? Or are they only upgrading existing planes?

If Russia would provide build specs for the AL-21 engine as well as air-frame design specs for the SU-22 M5, Iran could start making new SU-22's as well with similar upgrades its done to Kowsar and its own small batch of SU-22's that the IRGC upgraded.

The Iranian SU-22 uses the AL-21 engine... goes Mach 2... fires precision munitions.. communicates data points with UAVs... and fires precision air launched cruise missiles. It's roughly the same age as the F-16 as well. SU-22 came out in 1970, the F16 came out in 1974. Different purposes, but from the same era.

Either way, Russia should be giving Iran previous generation information on engines. AL-21, RD-33, R-25, etc so that Iran could manufacture them, upgrade them, and develop it's own industry based on reliable and proven technology. These engines have proven to be extremely reliable and would form an excellent base.

 

[Cancerous Tumor]

Yes. Is Iran building brand new Kowsars with new materials, avionics packages, weapons capabilities, and new engines instead of just retrofitting existing airframes? Or are they only upgrading existing planes?

If Russia would provide build specs for the AL-21 engine as well as air-frame design specs for the SU-22 M5, Iran could start making new SU-22's as well with similar upgrades its done to Kowsar and its own small batch of SU-22's that the IRGC upgraded.

The Iranian SU-22 uses the AL-21 engine... goes Mach 2... fires precision munitions.. communicates data points with UAVs... and fires precision air launched cruise missiles. It's roughly the same age as the F-16 as well. SU-22 came out in 1970, the F16 came out in 1974. Different purposes, but from the same era.

Either way, Russia should be giving Iran previous generation information on engines. AL-21, RD-33, R-25, etc so that Iran could manufacture them, upgrade them, and develop it's own industry based on reliable and proven technology. These engines have proven to be extremely reliable and would form an excellent base.

If you looking for a field for partnership go for space.

 

[OldTwilight]

Yes. Is Iran building brand new Kowsars with new materials, avionics packages, weapons capabilities, and new engines instead of just retrofitting existing airframes? Or are they only upgrading existing planes?

If Russia would provide build specs for the AL-21 engine as well as air-frame design specs for the SU-22 M5, Iran could start making new SU-22's as well with similar upgrades its done to Kowsar and its own small batch of SU-22's that the IRGC upgraded.

The Iranian SU-22 uses the AL-21 engine... goes Mach 2... fires precision munitions.. communicates data points with UAVs... and fires precision air launched cruise missiles. It's roughly the same age as the F-16 as well. SU-22 came out in 1970, the F16 came out in 1974. Different purposes, but from the same era.

Either way, Russia should be giving Iran previous generation information on engines. AL-21, RD-33, R-25, etc so that Iran could manufacture them, upgrade them, and develop it's own industry based on reliable and proven technology. These engines have proven to be extremely reliable and would form an excellent base.

Well , Thanks for your concern . This could be good proposal for 2000s but no for 2020s .
even top Russians fighters are nothing compare to what our potential foe have ...
another problem is that we can rely Russia to give us accurate info and don't deal with The Arab , The Western , and Israel for giving wrong data and wast our time and money for years to building faulty product ...

 

[VEVAK]

Yes. Is Iran building brand new Kowsars with new materials, avionics packages, weapons capabilities, and new engines instead of just retrofitting existing airframes? Or are they only upgrading existing planes?

If Russia would provide build specs for the AL-21 engine as well as air-frame design specs for the SU-22 M5, Iran could start making new SU-22's as well with similar upgrades its done to Kowsar and its own small batch of SU-22's that the IRGC upgraded.

The Iranian SU-22 uses the AL-21 engine... goes Mach 2... fires precision munitions.. communicates data points with UAVs... and fires precision air launched cruise missiles. It's roughly the same age as the F-16 as well. SU-22 came out in 1970, the F16 came out in 1974. Different purposes, but from the same era.

Either way, Russia should be giving Iran previous generation information on engines. AL-21, RD-33, R-25, etc so that Iran could manufacture them, upgrade them, and develop it's own industry based on reliable and proven technology. These engines have proven to be extremely reliable and would form an excellent base.

We would have no need for Su-22 specs. However AL-21 whole other matter YES ME LIKE! But to upgrade not to produce as is!
Overall, Iran's territory is far to big for Su-22 or even MiG-29's to be a viable option as the back bone of our Air Force because we don't want to have a massive manned Air Force! And we need interceptors more than anything so we need fighters equipped with X-Band AESA radars not Su-22's

As for the Kowsars yes the Air frame is produce in Iran however the Airframes of Kowsars/F-5 aren't like most other fighters and require little amount of Ti by comparison which is one of the reasons why we are both stuck on and so obsessed with that platform.

We could definitely use Russia's help in Ti and other metallurgy and metal composite production. We would definitely like a few of those massive Thermal Vacuum Chambers, a few nice presses, ... These are far more important then specs to outdated platform... We can design platforms ourselves...

In terms of the engines that would be great! Especially if the infrastructure to produce the required alloys comes with!

 

[Hack-Hook]

If only people would have understood that nobody will give us engine unless we manage to build a viable engine.

 

[TheImmortal]

If only people would have understood that nobody will give us engine unless we manage to build a viable engine.

After all these years working on licensed copies of seimens engines. How many completely Iranian design gas turbines has MANPA managed to build?

The difficult is very high, equivalent to space engineering to some degree.

The knowledge pool of skilled talent is probably there. But the national effort and funding would need to be like the Manhattan project for Iran or Bavar was for Iran. A colossal effort.

I have not see that commitment yet. The best info we have is rumors from people who know people who are connected to establishment saying that they have several prototype engines they are working on to get them to a viable level of production. Wether it’s true or not, who knows.

 

[Hack-Hook]

After all these years working on licensed copies of seimens engines. How many completely Iranian design gas turbines has MANPA managed to build?

The difficult is very high, equivalent to space engineering to some degree.

The knowledge pool of skilled talent is probably there. But the national effort and funding would need to be like the Manhattan project for Iran or Bavar was for Iran. A colossal effort.

I have not see that commitment yet. The best info we have is rumors from people who know people who are connected to establishment saying that they have several prototype engines they are working on to get them to a viable level of production. Wether it’s true or not, who knows.

Still you get the engine faster than waiting for others to give you.

Just look at our air defense who gave us any system till we built our own or even vaccine till we built our own vaccine who gave us vaccines in significant volume

 

[mohsen]

After all these years working on licensed copies of seimens engines. How many completely Iranian design gas turbines has MANPA managed to build?

The difficult is very high, equivalent to space engineering to some degree.

The knowledge pool of skilled talent is probably there. But the national effort and funding would need to be like the Manhattan project for Iran or Bavar was for Iran. A colossal effort.

I have not see that commitment yet. The best info we have is rumors from people who know people who are connected to establishment saying that they have several prototype engines they are working on to get them to a viable level of production. Wether it’s true or not, who knows.

1

MAPNA Group Unveils MGT-70 (3), Its Latest E-class Gas Turbine

MAPNA Group Unveils MGT-70 (3), Its Latest Gas Turbine Posted 10 July 2017 In MAPNA News, Power A product launch event was held in Tehran today to introduce MAPNA Group’s new product. MAPNA Group President Abbas Aliabadi and senior executives of the conglomerate hosted Iranian press to...

defence.pk

 

[VEVAK]

After all these years working on licensed copies of seimens engines. How many completely Iranian design gas turbines has MANPA managed to build?

The difficult is very high, equivalent to space engineering to some degree.

The knowledge pool of skilled talent is probably there. But the national effort and funding would need to be like the Manhattan project for Iran or Bavar was for Iran. A colossal effort.

I have not see that commitment yet. The best info we have is rumors from people who know people who are connected to establishment saying that they have several prototype engines they are working on to get them to a viable level of production. Wether it’s true or not, who knows.

In many ways space specifically rocket science is much much easier!
You don't need to ensure reusability and viability of an engine over 1000's of hours of flight time and over a span of a decade or more. Your engine doesn't need to be made up of parts that can be replaced & or repaired relatively quickly and at a reasonable price etc etc etc.....
R&D for a new domestically designed engine that can transport ppl takes time even more so if you have never done it before so no short cuts!
An engine like the Tolue14 blows up a UAV or CM in flight no one will be screaming bloody murder but a newly designed domestic engine blows up a manned aircraft God help you!

 

[Lehrasap]

It is a wonder that US/Europe & Soviet Union were able to produce reliable civilian and military engines in 1950s and 1960s, but Iran cannot produce such level of reliable engines even in 2022.

 

[_Nabil_]

It is a wonder that US/Europe & Soviet Union were able to produce reliable civilian and military engines in 1950s and 1960s, but Iran cannot produce such level of reliable engines even in 2022.

Because Iran is not looking to produce those old era technologies..., It want to jump to 90-2000 technologies, witch it's quiet hard without a complete industrial complex.

 

[strateger]

Because Iran is not looking to produce those old era technologies..., It want to jump to 90-2000 technologies, witch it's quiet hard without a complete industrial complex.

That's great and all, but it still seems logical to me to start the things you know the best. J-85, J-79, AL-21, and R-25 engines. Iran operates these engines extensively, overhauls them, services them, etc.

The F4 goes Mach 2.2... It's extremely reliable...
The SU-22 goes Mach 2... It's extremely reliable..

The engine in the F-22 Raptor was first designed in 1993.. The engine in the F35 was first produced in 2007. The F-22 goes Mach 1.8, and the F35 goes Mach 1.6. It's their radar signature, weapons systems, radar systems, etc that make them so lethal.

Any air force in the world would be lethal with production capabilities on J-79 and AL-21 engines as long as the other parts of the aircraft were properly modern. That's why I brought up the upgrade package Iran did on SU-22's. I don't know if they fully upgraded the radar or avionics package like they did on Kowsar, but it fires very advanced precision bombs, smart bombs, and cruise missiles. It looks like the cockpit and technology has been overhauled per a video on the upgrade that was published.

 

[Stryker1982]

That's great and all, but it still seems logical to me to start the things you know the best. J-85, J-79, AL-21, and R-25 engines. Iran operates these engines extensively, overhauls them, services them, etc.

The F4 goes Mach 2.2... It's extremely reliable...
The SU-22 goes Mach 2... It's extremely reliable..

The engine in the F-22 Raptor was first designed in 1993.. The engine in the F35 was first produced in 2007. The F-22 goes Mach 1.8, and the F35 goes Mach 1.6. It's their radar signature, weapons systems, radar systems, etc that make them so lethal.

Any air force in the world would be lethal with production capabilities on J-79 and AL-21 engines as long as the other parts of the aircraft were properly modern. That's why I brought up the upgrade package Iran did on SU-22's. I don't know if they fully upgraded the radar or avionics package like they did on Kowsar, but it fires very advanced precision bombs, smart bombs, and cruise missiles. It looks like the cockpit and technology has been overhauled per a video on the upgrade that was published.

Going with what you said, Iran has acheived J-85 level, so that is a good start, but not much is known about how they want to use the J-85 (Owj) engine.

This is the IRGC, not the regular army airforce. The IRGC have taken upon themselves to develop some airpower, and have already modified their aircraft to drop long range SDBs. So if we in future ever see a new fighter-bomber based on a new engine, It'll probably come from them as they are really the ones with the financial resources to make it possible.