Iranian Ground Forces | News and Equipment

[Daylamite Warrior]

Iran should go for 5th generation fighters like the J-35 or Su-75 (though I personally doubt this one will ever see completion given sanctions) when they become available. It should not waste money on 4th generation jets in the mean time.

Spending 100s of millions of dollars to make the "allied planners think a bit more" before their F-22s and F-35s pick the Su-35s out of the sky is a stupid decision. My whole point which you missed was that buying expensive (to buy, maintain, and operate) air superiority fighters when we have cheap drones to fight insurgents is also a stupid decision.

You seem to be the one obsessed with the F-5 here, I said the money should be spent on developing engine tech to power a new more powerful platform.

The rest of the world isn't facing the same potential adversaries Iran is, they don't need to build a force capable of fighting 5th gen US fighters.

Sanctions?! Do you mean unilateral US sanctions? Since when did Russia or China abide by these?! Russia and Iran are both sanctioned by US so this is no barrier. The issue is Russia and China dont have enough 5th gen jets to satiate their own needs let alone sell it to someone like India or Pakistan, and let alone sell it to Iran! Just accept you made a silly knee jerk comment! Its okay we all do it sometimes!

But Kowsar isnt a true 4th gen aircraft, only its avionics is considered 4th gen, so buying Su-35 is definitely a step up. Putting a Ferrari dashbord in a Peykan doesnt mean your Peykan can compete in Formula One!

Where is your evidence that F-22 and F-35 have engaged Su-35? Or are you slurping US propaganda? Either way, only Su-57 and J-35 can truly compete which Iran has a better chance of getting than making something similar indegenously in a reasonable timeframe.

Of course we can use drones, but it would be good target practice to use our planes to fire missiles from within our borders to take out terrorists. But we dont do that because our airforce stinks and that includes the Kowsar! I get no pleasure in saying this! Cost isnt the issue, Iran is an oil and gas giant and we have enough jet fuel lol! Another silly point!

Im saying IF we have money to do both, we should do both, and not put all our eggs into one basket!

What are you talking about, most NATO countries are upgrading to F-35 to deal with Russia, China and other eastern nations. Iran is in a dire and pressing situation and your option is to wait it out until we get something to compete with 5th Generation? Get a grip! Totally unrealistic!

 

[BigMelatonin]

Sanctions?! Do you mean unilateral US sanctions? Since when did Russia or China abide by these?! Russia and Iran are both sanctioned by US so this is no barrier. The issue is Russia and China dont have enough 5th gen jets to satiate their own needs let alone sell it to someone like India or Pakistan, and let alone sell it to Iran! Just accept you made a silly knee jerk comment! Its okay we all do it sometimes!

Most of Russia's high tech military products used imported western components like the thermal sights for their tanks which are imported from France. I don't think they have the technology to complete the Su-75 without these imports. J-35 was designed with export in mind, when it completes development it will be available for purchase.

Where is your evidence that F-22 and F-35 have engaged Su-35? Or are you slurping US propaganda? Either way, only Su-57 and J-35 can truly compete which Iran has a better chance of getting than making something similar indegenously in a reasonable timeframe.

Su-35 failed even against western 4th gen fighters. No surprise when it doesn't even have an AESA radar which the west has been putting in their fighters since the 90s.

Egypt to Boost Rafale Order by 100 Aircraft as Its Su-35 Fails to Withstand Rafale’s Spectra Electronic Attacks

Egypt’s $4.5 billion order for 30 additional Rafale jets will improve data sharing across the Middle East powerhouse’s fleet. Middle East based Breaking Defense reported quoting Egyptian sources that this may not be the last Rafale purchase. Egypt is now eying the Rafale F4...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

Of course we can use drones, but it would be good target practice to use our planes to fire missiles from within our borders to take out terrorists. But we dont do that because our airforce stinks and that includes the Kowsar! I get no pleasure in saying this! Cost isnt the issue, Iran is an oil and gas giant and we have enough jet fuel lol! Another silly point!

For example, an F-15 costs $40,000 per hour to operate, a MQ-1 costs 1/10th that. Again you're throwing away budget that could be used for something else. Of course cost is an issue, the IRIAF has a notoriously small budget, it's not just the fuel but parts and maintenance.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The fact is I won't for a second put Iranian AESA radars on par with American ones until I see field testes data from Iranian radar. S-300 and S-400 have been used in wars but Bavar is nowhere to be seen!

again sorry we are not at war, and by the way right now i'm comparing them with russian PESA radars not American AESA radars.
if you like ilm ready to make a comparison with American Patriot , but you must promise that later not come and say i bring western product in any discussion .

Stop bringing up mig-29! I asked for F-5 vs Mig-29 tests and you have no evidence. You keep flip flopping like a coward by focussing only on the radar! Do you have mig-29 vs Kowsar one on one data or are you going do a monkey dance for this as well?!

and i said that no such encounter happened. Iraq received them in 1987, the war ended in 1987 , there was not enough time to introduce them into Iraq airforce by the end of the war

Stop denying it, you bring up western jets in the past when we suggest buying Russian. Here is one very embarrassing example of your gharbzade position:

be honest post them completely, each one answe to a post and any body here can decide what i say here , even in doctored format you post here those posts never implied we must buy from west even criticize pgcc for buying from west, and for god sake try to understand what we say when we made a post .

Nowhere in those quotes you have shown do I make the general statement that "Iran does not have the intelligence to build anything"! These were about specific things like making and mass producing fighter jet to rival our enemies! But I have always said Iran has intelligence to make AESA, drones and AD! Big difference! So you are a liar and Alhamdulillah has answered my prayers and exposed you.

you clearly said iran cant dream of building them (helicopter and aircraft in next 200 year while we already do that ) and in one you literally said Iran doesnt have the money nor the manpower nor the time nor the technology to do anything you mentioned. and then as Iran never made such innovations before then by power of deductive reasoning it had to have come from a foreign Russian idea.

Well then our squadrons of Su-35s would act independently to our F5s and F4s, big deal!

they act separately from anything , they even cant communicate with drones, they can't even communicate with ground based RADAR , waste of money and resource for future network centric warfare

 

[drmeson]

they act separately from anything , they even cant communicate with drones, they can't even communicate with ground based RADAR , waste of money and resource for future network centric warfare

Food for thought. A future Intra-IRIAF scenario.

5 x SU-35S (Attack party)
- 10-15 m2 RCS
- IRBIS-E (Search range 250 KM, Tracking range 100 km)
- IRST
- Full E-warfare package with ECCM, RWR + Jammers
- R-77-1 ARH-BVR (~100 KM) + R-74 All aspect WVR
- Intra Flanker Tactical Datalink
- FBW

VS

5 x F-14AM (3) + Kowsar-I(2) + Karrar (2) [Interception group]

F-14AM (3)
- 6-10 m2 RCS
- AWG-9+ (Search range 300 KM,~170-200 KM track range)
- Fakour-90 SARH BVR (150 KM) + Azarakhsh CCD Allaspect WVR (40 KM)

Kowsar-I (2)
- ~3m2 RCS
- Grifo-346/Bayyeat-II (Search range 115 KM, 93 KM track range)
- ECCM+RWR
- Shahin X-band ECM Pod (Dash II)
- Azarakhsh CCD Allaspect WVR (40 KM)
- Double Duplex Tactical Datalinking with Fighters-Fighter, Fighter-UCAV
- FBW

Karrar (2)
- <1 m2 RCS
- 2 x Azarakhsh CCD Allaspect WVR (20 KM without Radar)

Who wins? What tactics?

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Most of Russia's high tech military products used imported western components like the thermal sights for their tanks which are imported from France. I don't think they have the technology to complete the Su-75 without these imports. J-35 was designed with export in mind, when it completes development it will be available for purchase.

Su-35 failed even against western 4th gen fighters. No surprise when it doesn't even have an AESA radar which the west has been putting in their fighters since the 90s.

Egypt to Boost Rafale Order by 100 Aircraft as Its Su-35 Fails to Withstand Rafale’s Spectra Electronic Attacks

Egypt’s $4.5 billion order for 30 additional Rafale jets will improve data sharing across the Middle East powerhouse’s fleet. Middle East based Breaking Defense reported quoting Egyptian sources that this may not be the last Rafale purchase. Egypt is now eying the Rafale F4...

www.globaldefensecorp.com

For example, an F-15 costs $40,000 per hour to operate, a MQ-1 costs 1/10th that. Again you're throwing away budget that could be used for something else. Of course cost is an issue, the IRIAF has a notoriously small budget, it's not just the fuel but parts and maintenance.

So we agree that mentioning 5th Gen was pointless since it is near impossible. Im still confused why your brought it up to begin with. But let's move on from this.

Sorry, where is your data for that claim? Please show us. Egypt buying western jets was due to political pressure, the same which was put on Turkey. Not on technical grounds!

Does Iran have F-15s or do you like using false equivocation just to appear as though you're winning an argument? As an oil producer cost of fuel for national security should be low on the list of concerns! Honestly bro, instead of bean counting, look at the opportunity cost of training our airforce to take out real targets in bombing runs. There are definitely cobwebs there since we havent been doing this since Iran-Iraq war. What else is a budget there for other than using the damn planes for fighting?! Filling pockets? Never-ending modding of F-5s? We're going to have to use these planes eventually, so wouldnt it be better if we actually did some training instead of sitting on our hands and waiting for them to get blown out of the skies by Americans? And if our planes are not up to it then having some new Russian jets would definitely improve that, IF the money is there, which neither me or you know for sure.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Food for thought. A future Intra-IRIAF scenario.

5 x SU-35S (Attack party)
- 10-15 m2 RCS
- IRBIS-E (Search range 250 KM, Tracking range 100 km)
- IRST
- Full E-warfare package with ECCM, RWR + Jammers
- R-77-1 ARH-BVR (~100 KM) + R-74 All aspect WVR
- Intra Flanker Tactical Datalink
- FBW

VS

5 x F-14AM (3) + Kowsar-I(2) + Karrar (2) [Interception group]

F-14AM (3)
- 6-10 m2 RCS
- AWG-9+ (Search range 300 KM,~170-200 KM track range)
- Fakour-90 SARH BVR (150 KM) + Azarakhsh CCD Allaspect WVR (40 KM)

Kowsar-I (2)
- ~3m2 RCS
- Grifo-346/Bayyeat-II (Search range 115 KM, 93 KM track range)
- ECCM+RWR
- Shahin X-band ECM Pod (Dash II)
- Azarakhsh CCD Allaspect WVR (40 KM)
- Double Duplex Tactical Datalinking with Fighters-Fighter, Fighter-UCAV
- FBW

Karrar (2)
- <1 m2 RCS
- 2 x Azarakhsh CCD Allaspect WVR (20 KM without Radar)

Who wins? What tactics?

to be honest id be worried about the e-warfare here .those su-35 can datalink with each other , while those F-14+Kowsar +karrar also can datalink with each other . i don't knew how good that AWG-9 act against E-Warfare suit of Su-35 but my strategy would be as soon as i found those su-35 put Kowsars between F-14s . then try to made those karrar fly as low as possible and not pointed toward the su 35 but lateral ward then have them fire their missiles toward the su-35 in hope they get 1 or 2 of them . then use the data from 5 linked f-14 to make a solution for firing fakour at half its range toward the su-35 . the dutuy of those kowsar would be to use their jamming capabilities to reduce the effectiveness of those f-35 radar. by the way after firing those karrar missiles toward su-35s i may be tempted to use them as suicide drone and try to attack su-35 with them

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

again sorry we are not at war, and by the way right now i'm comparing them with russian PESA radars not American AESA radars.
if you like ilm ready to make a comparison with American Patriot , but you must promise that later not come and say i bring western product in any discussion .

and i said that no such encounter happened. Iraq received them in 1987, the war ended in 1987 , there was not enough time to introduce them into Iraq airforce by the end of the war

be honest post them completely, each one answe to a post and any body here can decide what i say here , even in doctored format you post here those posts never implied we must buy from west even criticize pgcc for buying from west, and for god sake try to understand what we say when we made a post .
View attachment 880708


you clearly said iran cant dream of building them (helicopter and aircraft in next 200 year while we already do that ) and in one you literally said Iran doesnt have the money nor the manpower nor the time nor the technology to do anything you mentioned. and then as Iran never made such innovations before then by power of deductive reasoning it had to have come from a foreign Russian idea.


they act separately from anything , they even cant communicate with drones, they can't even communicate with ground based RADAR , waste of money and resource for future network centric warfare

Well until you can ship these to Syria or Yemen, where there IS a war, or use them some place else, you can't make such claims...or at least have the decency to accept the limitations in your evidence.

You comparing American AESA with Russian PESA has limitations because I am not sure, and neither are you to be honest, if Iranian AESA is on par with American. So there is limitations in this example as well.

So just say that instead of bringing up Mig-25 like you did a few posts back. You have sod all data to back your claims!

Who you replied to is not relevant, it is what you are saying and you clearly said:

yes Iran needs buy aircraft from Russia but iran have no business at all design and produce its own fighter jets and here people mock PGCC countries for buying weapon from USA which actually are a lot better than these air planes i hear they want Iran buy.

You are clearly saying that PGCC are being mocked for buying western jets because theyre better than Russian! 3 people laughed at you because of how ridiculous your post was. All I'm saying is stop bringing up western jets as though Iran has the same options. Koob gharbzadegito inja neshoon dadi!

It is a FACT that Iran doeant have the money or manpower or to build a 5th gen airforce to rival America and Israel! This isnt hocus pocus, but fact! I never mentioned Iran cant build helicopters, another lie, but I said Iran can not build something close to an Su-35 without foreign help. I stand by this and the evidence is that pretty much all of Iran's innovations and domestic goods have had foreign influences! This is FACT! HAQ! That is not the same as saying "Iran doesn't have intelligence to build ANYTHING". THAT IS BAATIL! FALSEHOOD!

Of course they can communicate with Radar lol maybe not Iranian ones but your system will have to be redesigned with special Russian Radar to achieve this. Worthwhile investment if we have the money. Also adds an extra shield against electronic warfare, of course that would be useless to you because I truly believe you want Iran to get conquered by the rainbow flag liberals!

 

[Hack-Hook]

Who you replied to is not relevant, it is what you are saying and you clearly said:


You are clearly saying that PGCC are being mocked for buying western jets because theyre better than Russian! 3 people laughed at you because of how ridiculous your post was. All I'm saying is stop bringing up western jets as though Iran has the same options. Koob gharbzadegito inja neshoon dadi!

somebody tell this guy what i meant by this , he lacks the capability of understanding it, and whats strange about it rafale is better than su-35 , f16-v radar is even better than f-15 radar and su-35 , f-16, f-15 and rafale have better E-warfare suit than su-35 and i dare you prove su-35 is better than them in that regard

and by the way why I care about you and sardar or ey iran laughing at my posts you guys literally laughed at every single posts I made that week even the ones that I was discussing with another guy in covid-19 section about the necessity of vaccination , i call that obsession

t is a FACT that Iran doeant have the money or manpower or to build a 5th gen airforce to rival America and Israel! This isnt hocus pocus, but fact! I never mentioned Iran cant build helicopters, another lie, but I said Iran can not build something close to an Su-35 without foreign help. I stand by this and the evidence is that pretty much all of Iran's innovations and domestic goods have had foreign influences! This is FACT! HAQ! That is not the same as saying "Iran doesn't have intelligence to build ANYTHING". THAT IS BAATIL! FALSEHOOD!

the fine print is , you made that post about a 4+ generation aircraft and helicopters not 5th generation aircraft . by the way if you can buy 5th generation aircraft for iran , then Besme-Allah i whole heartedly support such move from you

Of course they can communicate with Radar lol maybe not Iranian ones but your system will have to be redesigned with special Russian Radar to achieve this. Worthwhile investment if we have the money. Also adds an extra shield against electronic warfare, of course that would be useless to you because I truly believe you want Iran to get conquered by the rainbow flag liberals!

yeah , the problem their data link only work with other Su-35 not even Russian radars
and no thanks whatever you do don't mess with our radars , we put years of hard work into them

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

somebody tell this guy what i meant by this , he lacks the capability of understanding it, and whats strange about it rafale is better than su-35 , f16-v radar is even better than f-15 radar and su-35 , f-16, f-15 and rafale have better E-warfare suit than su-35 and i dare you prove su-35 is better than them in that regard

View attachment 880717
and by the way why I care about you and sardar or ey iran laughing at my posts you guys literally laughed at every single posts I made that week even the ones that I was discussing with another guy in covid-19 section about the necessity of vaccination , i call that obsession

the fine print is , you made that post about a 4+ generation aircraft and helicopters not 5th generation aircraft . by the way if you can buy 5th generation aircraft for iran , then Besme-Allah i whole heartedly support such move from you

yeah , the problem their data link only work with other Su-35 not even Russian radars
and no thanks whatever you do don't mess with our radars , we put years of hard work into them

Maybe you need to explain yourself better, because your English sucks, take it from a native English speaker! Youre the one who doesn't understand! It doesnt matter if they are or are not better, get this into your thick head: IRAN WILL NEVER GET ITS HANDS ON WESTERN MILITARY EQUIPMENT AS LONG AS ISLAMIC REPUBLIC ARE IN POWER!

So, for the millionth time, Iran's only choice seems to be purchase Russian and if the money is there, then a few squadrons will be a good addition and an improvement to what we claim to have.

Let's not speak about C19 and vaccine, thats a different issue. The fact is it is indicative of how respected members here dont take your comments seriously, or notice the subtle gharbzade undertones such as the quotes I gave.

The fine print is I made these remarks about Bell helicopters and Su-35 or 5th Gen! Not about ANYTHING! I know you're trying your hardest to make me out to be an Iransetiz but youre failing! For us to have an indegenous aircraft to rival American jets, which will have to be 4+++ or 5th Gen, without any foreign help and solely with the alleged scraps we have for budget, i think 200 years is a good estimate. It's about being realistic. There is no point having all the theory and intelligence, which Iranians have, when there is no practical experimentation, funds and proven foreign technology. However having a few Su-35s is better than having nothing, and this is a fact. You can forget buying 5th gen off the shelf, grow up!

Su-35 can contact ground control through datalink who can provide radar data! It makes them "quiter" on enemy radars and harder to decode their comms. You rather Iran to be heard by the enemy so they can defeat us lol koor khoondi!

 

[BigMelatonin]

So we agree that mentioning 5th Gen was pointless since it is near impossible. Im still confused why your brought it up to begin with. But let's move on from this.

I'll state it as clearly as possible on more time for you: If Iran wants to purchase foreign fighters, they should wait and buy 5th generation fighters when they are available in the future. Iran should not waste money on 4th generation fighters just because they're available now because that money is better served being invested in domestic technology.

Sorry, where is your data for that claim? Please show us. Egypt buying western jets was due to political pressure, the same which was put on Turkey. Not on technical grounds!

You can see for yourself Russia's top-of-the-line 4th gen fighters getting blown out of the sky because they can't even suppress their own Cold War air defense tech yet claim but yeah sure it's all political pressure. How about you show me some data that the Su-35 isn't garbage?

Does Iran have F-15s or do you like using false equivocation just to appear as though you're winning an argument? As an oil producer cost of fuel for national security should be low on the list of concerns!

I used it as an example because the data is available but you can go find the operating cost of an Su-35 and Shahed 129 and compare them yourself, I'm not going to go find it for you. And as I clearly stated, fuel is not the only concern.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Maybe you need to explain yourself better, because your English sucks, take it from a native English speaker! Youre the one who doesn't understand! It doesnt matter if they are or are not better, get this into your thick head: IRAN WILL NEVER GET ITS HANDS ON WESTERN MILITARY EQUIPMENT AS LONG AS ISLAMIC REPUBLIC ARE IN POWER!

i'm not the first one who told you that you don't understand what people discuss in last 48 hours
and strangely others understand what i mean
and put it in your head i never ever said iran get its hand on western weapon. I said we are making laugh of UAE and KSA for buying weapons from USA and Europe and at the same time the same people here promote Iran buying weapon from russia instead of producing them and then I pointed that at least those European and American aircraft that KSA and UAE are buying are of higher quality than the Russian ones. hope you understand now what that post is about.

Let's not speak about C19 and vaccine, thats a different issue. The fact is it is indicative of how respected members here dont take your comments seriously, or notice the subtle gharbzade undertones such as the quotes I gave.

as i said i don't care about what people do think , there were some members here who i cared a lot about what they think , but some peoples made them leave the forum , and you guys that week laughed at my every single post that week even the ones in covid-19 section about necessity of vaccine and about respected members , the question is respected by who , if you have noticed i no longer even bother answering or make any comment about two of those three respected members here , show how much i think their posts worth

The fine print is I made these remarks about Bell helicopters and Su-35 or 5th Gen! Not about ANYTHING! I know you're trying your hardest to make me out to be an Iransetiz but youre failing! For us to have an indegenous aircraft to rival American jets,

the point is we build those bell helicopters , and i never talked about su-35 i was talking about a 4+ generation aircraft

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

I'll state it as clearly as possible on more time for you: If Iran wants to purchase foreign fighters, they should wait and buy 5th generation fighters when they are available in the future. Iran should not waste money on 4th generation fighters just because they're available now because that money is better served being invested in domestic technology.

You can see for yourself Russia's top-of-the-line 4th gen fighters getting blown out of the sky because they can't even suppress their own Cold War air defense tech yet claim but yeah sure it's all political pressure. How about you show me some data that the Su-35 isn't garbage?

I used it as an example because the data is available but you can go find the operating cost of an Su-35 and Shahed 129 and compare them yourself, I'm not going to go find it for you. And as I clearly stated, fuel is not the only concern.

Say it a million times it still won't make it any more logical to someone with even half a brain! The time that will take before Russia or China sells 5th Gen to anyone, let alone Iran is epochs! And that is assuming they ever do decide to export it at all, which I doubt for security reasons. These Russian 4th gen aircraft are better than what we have, so why shouldnt we buy them if it improves what we have?! I'll say this again, it will actually improve our R+D for our domestic designs. Its rather telling that we still use F-5 design for our latest indegenous aircraft, weve reached our zenith. It's a writers block for Iran. Your expectations are too unrealistic for Iran and that is counterproductive.

Blow out of the sky? What two airframe loses in a brutal proxy war against Nato! Seems pretty good odds. What, did you think zero aircraft losses was something realistic in a war? Even US military brass expect to lose some 5th Gen Aircraft if they go and hit Iranian nuclear plant.

Just because the data is there doesn't mean it is relative to the su-35 or Iran's Kowsar. I dont need you to find anything for me, because I know the OPPORTUNITY COST of training our pilots and devising bombing tactics is so valuable that it's worth it. Yes our pilots have to earn a living as well. You have been anything but clear.

i'm not the first one who told you that you don't understand what people discuss in last 48 hours
and strangely others understand what i mean
and put it in your head i never ever said iran get its hand on western weapon. I said we are making laugh of UAE and KSA for buying weapons from USA and Europe and at the same time the same people here promote Iran buying weapon from russia instead of producing them and then I pointed that at least those European and American aircraft that KSA and UAE are buying are of higher quality than the Russian ones. hope you understand now what that post is about.

as i said i don't care about what people do think , there were some members here who i cared a lot about what they think , but some peoples made them leave the forum , and you guys that week laughed at my every single post that week even the ones in covid-19 section about necessity of vaccine and about respected members , the question is respected by who , if you have noticed i no longer even bother answering or make any comment about two of those three respected members here , show how much i think their posts worth

the point is we build those bell helicopters , and i never talked about su-35 i was talking about a 4+ generation aircraft

Just you and your fellow self hating Palestinian and this Melatonin guy who seems to be an eslatalab just like yourself? Or did you mean that cartoon English troll masacarading as a sayyid from India? Give me a break! Your ad hominem attacks show im doing something right.

I know what you said, and I stand by my reply that bringing up western jets just shows how dumb and/or conniving you are.

They are respected by me and by those who do reply to them from accross the board. Nobody makes people leave, they leave because they chose to leave. They also left because they probably couldnt argue their nonsensical points. Only the strong survive here. Also don't make me laugh, you respond to every comment like a bikar!

I was talking about Su-35 and how our Bell helicopters are not the same quality as one produced in US, please keep up. You know full well Kowsar has no chance against western jets!

 

[shadihassan28]

Well even a couple squadron of 4 + generation aircraft is still good idea the Iranian pilots currently are just flying mostly obsolete planes again even with all the upgrades 4 + generation are here for the time being because even America can allocate all the money to build thousands of f 35 even the f 22 topped out at couple these planes cost triple of the amount of the 4 generation and that’s bareback and nothing is invincible even the f 35 which to date has never actually been tested out against any worthy adversary ok I’m just going to throw this out there but for example the Koreans f 21 fighter which down the line will upgrade to fifth generation at least according to them so yeah buy 4 generation and develop something better

 

[Stryker1982]

Well even a couple squadron of 4 + generation aircraft is still good idea the Iranian pilots currently are just flying mostly obsolete planes again even with all the upgrades 4 + generation are here for the time being because even America can allocate all the money to build thousands of f 35 even the f 22 topped out at couple these planes cost triple of the amount of the 4 generation and that’s bareback and nothing is invincible even the f 35 which to date has never actually been tested out against any worthy adversary ok I’m just going to throw this out there but for example the Koreans f 21 fighter which down the line will upgrade to fifth generation at least according to them so yeah buy 4 generation and develop something better

As long as they would give some Tech transfer and knowledge based support, it would be worth it otherwise, it's just throwing money away.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

As long as they would give some Tech transfer and knowledge based support, it would be worth it otherwise, it's just throwing money away.

Could Iran not just reverse engineer what they are sold if ToT was not agreed? Is there no value in that? Come on!