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Iranian Chill Thread

US Intelligence Report Leaves Saudi Arabia with No Good Geopolitical Choices

By Dr. James M. DorseyMarch 1, 2021
Saudi-Crown-Prince-Muhammad-bin-Salman-US-Department-of-State-public-domain-image-via-Jakob-Reimann-Flickr-CC-300x215.png

Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman, US Department of State public domain image via Jakob Reimann Flickr CC

BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 1,946, March 1, 2021
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The Biden administration’s publication of a US intelligence report that holds Saudi Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman responsible for the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi creates a fundamental challenge to the kingdom’s geopolitical ambitions.
The challenge facing Saudi Arabia in the wake of the Biden administration’s publication of an intelligence report holding Crown Prince Muhammad bin Salman responsible for the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi lies in whether and how the kingdom will seek to further diversify its alliances with other world powers in response to the report and US human rights pressure.
The options available to Saudi Arabia and the UAE are limited by the fact that they cannot fully replace the US as a mainstay of their defense as well as their quest for regional hegemony, even if the report revives perceptions of the US as unreliable and at odds with their policies.
As Saudi King Salman and Prince Muhammad contemplate their options, including strengthening relations with external players such as China and Russia, they may find that reliance on these forces could prove riskier than the pitfalls of the kingdom’s ties with the US.
Core to Saudi as well as UAE considerations is likely to be the shaping of the ultimate balance of power between the kingdom and Iran in a swath of territory stretching from the Atlantic coast of Africa to Central Asia’s border with China.
US officials privately suggest that regional jockeying in an environment in which world power is being rebalanced to create a new world order was the key driver of Saudi and UAE as well as Israeli opposition from day one to the 2015 nuclear accord with Iran that the US, together with Europe, China, and Russia, negotiated. That remains the driver of criticism of President Joe Biden’s efforts to revive the agreement.
“If forced to choose, Riyadh preferred an isolated Iran with a nuclear bomb to an internationally accepted Iran unarmed with the weapons of doom,” said Trita Parsi, executive VP of the Washington-based Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and founder of the National Iranian American Council. Parsi was summing up Saudi and Emirati attitudes based on interviews with officials involved in the negotiations at a time when Biden was US VP.
As a result, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Israel appear to remain determined to either foil a return of the US to the accord, from which Biden’s predecessor, Donald Trump, withdrew, or ensure that it imposes conditions on Iran that would severely undermine its claim to regional hegemony.
In the ultimate analysis, the Gulf States and Israel share US objectives that include not only restricting Iran’s nuclear capabilities but also limiting its ballistic missiles program and ending support for non-state actors like Lebanon’s Hezbollah, Iraqi militias, and Yemen’s Houthis. The Middle Eastern states differ with the Biden administration on how to achieve those objectives and the sequencing of their pursuit.
Even so, the Gulf States are likely to realize, as Saudi Arabia contemplates its next steps, what Israel already knows: that China’s and Russia’s commitments to the defense of Saudi Arabia or Israel are unlikely to match that of the US, given that they view an Iran unfettered by sanctions and international isolation as strategic in ways that only Turkey, rather than other Middle Eastern states, can match.
Riyadh and Abu Dhabi will also have to recognize that they can attempt to influence US policies with the help of Israel’s powerful Washington lobby and influential US lobbying and public relations companies in ways that they are not able to do in autocratic China or authoritarian Russia.
Beijing and Moscow will no doubt seek to exploit opportunities created by Washington’s recalibration of its relations with Riyadh with arms sales as well as increased trade and investment.
But that will not alter the two countries’ long-term view of Iran as a country, albeit problematic, with attributes that the Gulf States cannot match even if it is momentarily in economic and political disrepair.
Those attributes include Iran’s geography as a gateway at the crossroads of Central Asia, the Middle East, and Europe; ethnic, cultural, and religious ties with Central Asia and the Middle East as a result of history and empire; a deep-seated identity rooted in empire; some of the world’s foremost oil and gas reserves; a large, highly educated population of 83 million that constitutes a huge domestic market; a fundamentally diversified economy; and a battle-hardened military.
Iran also shares Chinese and Russian ambitions to contain US influence even if its aspirations at times clash with those of China and Russia.
“China’s BRI will on paper finance additional transit options for the transfer of goods from ports in southern to northern Iran and beyond to Turkey, Russia, or Europe. China has a number of transit options available to it, but Iranian territory is difficult to avoid for any south-north or east-west links,” said Iran scholar Alex Vatanka referring to Beijing’s infrastructure, transportation, and energy-driven Belt and Road Initiative.
Compared to an unfettered Iran, Saudi Arabia and the UAE primarily offer geography related to some of the most strategic waterways through which much of the world’s oil and gas flows as well their positioning opposite the Horn of Africa and their energy reserves.
Moreover, Saudi Arabia’s position as a religious leader in the Muslim world built on its custodianship of Islam’s two holiest cities, Mecca and Medina, potentially could be challenged as the kingdom competes for leadership with other Middle Eastern and Asian Muslim-majority states.
On the principle of better the enemy you know than the devil you don’t, Saudi leaders may find that in the best of scenarios, in response to changing US policies, they are able to rattle cages by reaching out to China and Russia in ways that they have not until now. Still, at the end of the day they are deprived of good choices.
That conclusion may be reinforced by the realization that by not sanctioning Prince Muhammad bin Salman, the US has signaled that it does not wish to cut the kingdom’s umbilical cord. That message was also contained in the Biden administration’s earlier decision to halt the sale of weapons that Saudi Arabia could use for offensive operations in Yemen but not arms that it needs to defend its territory from external attack.
At the bottom line, Saudi Arabia’s best option to counter an Iran that poses a threat to its ambitions—irrespective of the kind of regime that is in power in Tehran—would be to work with its allies to develop the kind of economic and social policies as well as governance that would enable it to capitalize on its assets to effectively compete. Containment of Iran is a short-term tactic that eventually will run its course.
Iran ruled all these lands before the Arab and Ottoman conquests. It could do so again.”

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Dr. James M. Dorsey, a non-resident Senior Associate at the BESA Center, is a senior fellow at the S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies at Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University and co-director of the University of Würzburg’s Institute for Fan Culture
 
People in Aden burning tires, protesting against living conditions in the city

Saudi UAV shot down near Marib

More missiles shot towards Jizan today

Saudis claim to intercept missiles over jizan



 
Aftermath of US strike on Syrian border with Iraq:

Per SOHR: 17-22 killled
Per evidence: 1 Sunni non-Iranian non-KH contractor killed

Pentagon after five days: only one killed

Trumpist Faran Jeffrey finally admits to these effed up SOHR numbers but only to accuse Biden:

Remember SOHR claim of 50 kills in the last Trump days.
 
SOHR is hit and miss. It's one Syrian opposition figure sitting in a London apartment, protected by Mi6. He receives information from sources within Syria but in many cases there's no way to verify the claims.

Aftermath of US strike on Syrian border with Iraq:

Per SOHR: 17-22 killled
Per evidence: 1 Sunni non-Iranian non-KH contractor killed

Pentagon after five days: only one killed

Trumpist Faran Jeffrey finally admits to these effed up SOHR numbers but only to accuse Biden:

Remember SOHR claim of 50 kills in the last Trump days.
 
Agreed 100%, Iran lost a fair deal of credibility in the realm of deterrence after essentially blowing its load on Ayn Al-Assad without killing anyone (still not believing the Americans fully on this one though, their was more extensive material loss) and not going after the very individuals who ordered the strike in the first (such as that Mckenzie guy).

Iran is timid, scarred to a certain extent and unwilling to go farther than it deems necessary due to internal reasons.


I think it just goes to show Iran's main goal is clearly to avoid confrontation with the US. Iran's most capable commander, world renowned was assassinated by a foreign military and the response was 16 missiles. I simply don't think that was ever enough and I think much of this forum believes this as well. That being said, the capacities displayed were positive, and very impressive. Extremely dangerous and precise strikes that essentially turned that airbase into a useless plot of land for several hours. The strike wasn't disappointing per say but the number of munitions was. A US response to an assassination of the commander of CENTCOM would've certainly been a limited strike on Iran's navy no doubt.

We alleged caused no deaths and mostly material damage, it's this kind of response that may get Iran into more trouble down the line. Americans know that then can outsource assassination's to Israel instead because the Farrikhzadeh response is also insufficient.

As many experienced members on the forum have mentioned before, this deterrence strategy was mostly to display Iran's capabilities to the US and US public that precision strikes are possible including low CEP strikes on taxi ways. If Iran wanted to ensure high kill probability, it would've have directed those 2 taxi way strikes elsewhere. If any of those bunkers were intentionally targeted by <10m CEP Fateh110s, they'd have been 100's of deaths.

This is the main concern. If their is a limited strike on Natanz, will Iran respond with proportional limits or will it have it's causus belli for something more serious? Honestly, my best guess is that it will remain limited as they don't want to risk a limited Natanz strike to end up more serious, but this will badly destroy it's deterrence and will be the beginning of the end for the Islamic Republic. I hope we don't have to find out. No attacks must be tolerated on Iranian soil, the death of Soleimani was testing the waters. Whose to say, it won't be Hajizadeh next?
 
The Americans definitely lied about their material losses at Al Asad, Danish sources have already confirmed this. In regards to casualties, who knows what really happened. In any case, Iranian military commanders made a huge mistake by not closing off Iran's airspace, even after neighboring countries all did so.

The Israeli airforce by itself does not have the capacity to destroy Iran's nuclear program. If the Israelis try, there is a good chance that they could lose several fighter jets in the process, since they would have to fly deep into Iranian airspace.

Any attack on Iranian soil will lead to a massive response, with Iran launching missiles directly at Israel. Perhaps Iran will even target Israeli nuclear sites like Dimona. In any case, after an attack, Iran will have the excuse to take the entire nuclear program underground and build nuclear weapons as soon as possible for self defense.

Here are two recent videos on the subject



I think it just goes to show Iran's main goal is clearly to avoid confrontation with the US. Iran's most capable commander, world renowned was assassinated by a foreign military and the response was 16 missiles. I simply don't think that was ever enough and I think much of this forum believes this as well. That being said, the capacities displayed were positive, and very impressive. Extremely dangerous and precise strikes that essentially turned that airbase into a useless plot of land for several hours. The strike wasn't disappointing per say but the number of munitions was. A US response to an assassination of the commander of CENTCOM would've certainly been a limited strike on Iran's navy no doubt.

We alleged caused no deaths and mostly material damage, it's this kind of response that may get Iran into more trouble down the line. Americans know that then can outsource assassination's to Israel instead because the Farrikhzadeh response is also insufficient.

As many experienced members on the forum have mentioned before, this deterrence strategy was mostly to display Iran's capabilities to the US and US public that precision strikes are possible including low CEP strikes on taxi ways. If Iran wanted to ensure high kill probability, it would've have directed those 2 taxi way strikes elsewhere. If any of those bunkers were intentionally targeted by <10m CEP Fateh110s, they'd have been 100's of deaths.

This is the main concern. If their is a limited strike on Natanz, will Iran respond with proportional limits or will it have it's causus belli for something more serious? Honestly, my best guess is that it will remain limited as they don't want to risk a limited Natanz strike to end up more serious, but this will badly destroy it's deterrence and will be the beginning of the end for the Islamic Republic. I hope we don't have to find out. No attacks must be tolerated on Iranian soil, the death of Soleimani was testing the waters. Whose to say, it won't be Hajizadeh next?
 
I think it just goes to show Iran's main goal is clearly to avoid confrontation with the US. Iran's most capable commander, world renowned was assassinated by a foreign military and the response was 16 missiles. I simply don't think that was ever enough and I think much of this forum believes this as well. That being said, the capacities displayed were positive, and very impressive. Extremely dangerous and precise strikes that essentially turned that airbase into a useless plot of land for several hours. The strike wasn't disappointing per say but the number of munitions was. A US response to an assassination of the commander of CENTCOM would've certainly been a limited strike on Iran's navy no doubt.

We alleged caused no deaths and mostly material damage, it's this kind of response that may get Iran into more trouble down the line. Americans know that then can outsource assassination's to Israel instead because the Farrikhzadeh response is also insufficient.

As many experienced members on the forum have mentioned before, this deterrence strategy was mostly to display Iran's capabilities to the US and US public that precision strikes are possible including low CEP strikes on taxi ways. If Iran wanted to ensure high kill probability, it would've have directed those 2 taxi way strikes elsewhere. If any of those bunkers were intentionally targeted by <10m CEP Fateh110s, they'd have been 100's of deaths.

This is the main concern. If their is a limited strike on Natanz, will Iran respond with proportional limits or will it have it's causus belli for something more serious? Honestly, my best guess is that it will remain limited as they don't want to risk a limited Natanz strike to end up more serious, but this will badly destroy it's deterrence and will be the beginning of the end for the Islamic Republic. I hope we don't have to find out. No attacks must be tolerated on Iranian soil, the death of Soleimani was testing the waters. Whose to say, it won't be Hajizadeh next?

Very well said Stryker!!

No argument from me here bro, you've essentially covered everything worth mentioning.
 
حمله مسلحانه جیش‌الظلم به خودروی حامل نیروهای یگان مهندسی‌ در سراوان

 

The fact is Iranian immigration to US is hugely less.

Guess what? The main beneficiaries are the mullahs that they hate. They keep their top students in engineering, nuclear and military sectors while the best students and investors used to leave Iran for the west and US years ago.

The fact on the ground is usually different again. Khamenei owes this to the likes of Faran and Lipin :)
 
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At that point the ball of escalation gets rolling and targets wont be tied down to just ships.

Iran and Israel have to come to blows anyways and by the looks of it, we will be seeing a confrontation unfold sooner rather than later. The smaller intricacies no longer matter when this show starts to get going dadash.
I agree with you.

Iran is going to have to enter military action SOONER OR LATER, and by later, no more than 2-3 years from now. But Iran should also enter any conflict on its own timing and conditions...doing otherwise would be calamitous.
I would rather see a confrontation on the ground, not in international waters.
That will happen, probably either LEbanonese HZB forces rolling over GOlan + Galilee + shebaa farms into Israel..i can bet money on this to happen in next confrontation between Israel and Hezbollah.
We'll be at a huge disadvantage in such a conflict in open seas.
Iran isnt foolish or wasteful enough to do this Iran will fight close to its waters, and from its fortress mainland.
 
Iranian fast food

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Well, at least we Americans managed to impart something positive on Iran, really unhealthy large sized fast food items lmao.

Just an FYI to anyone who's not Iranian and is reading this, although I fully acknowledge that I'm speaking with an inherent bias here. But i mean this with every fiber of my being as a person. Iranian food across the board is the best tasting cuisine you'll ever have....period.

Fast Food, gourmet food, soups, sandwiches (omg the sandwiches...), Kebab, rice, deserts, sweets, cakes....just kill me now I wish I was in Iran eating food :p:
 
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