Iranian Chill Thread

[mohsen]

صادرات تجهیزات پزشکی به بیش از ۴۰ کشور دنیا درسی بزرگ برای صنعت خودروسازی، نفت و مخابرات / صادرات تجهیزات پزشکی به اروپا درسی بزرگ برای افرادی که فکر می‌کنند ایرانی‌ها بجز "آبگوشت بزباش" نمی‌توانند تولید کنند

 

[pts_m_h_2016]

Most of what you said is true hence severely unlikely... Iran and Turkey see each other as rivals... Mild rivals though... They never tighten the rivalry because they are neighbors with lots of connections and never merge as you proposed...

They are rivals for centuries... Iran don't see Arabs as rivalry as Turkey don't see them fit to be a rival... but Turkey and Iran due to many factors are fit to be rivals and benefit from this motivation....The only likely merge would be economy and only when both have +30k per capital.

btw, your smartly placing of French along side Germany is somehow fishy... France is not a quality nation in many techs... For example, all mechanics around the world knows that French Cars , being one of the veterans of the industry , still are lacking quality as it is expected from an industrial country. All mechanics name French cars as junks of Europe and I personally testify to that... Although, in some other industries France has quality products... Airbus is their best...
Don't get me wrong... But french were never good with building cars... This is not your industry... Germans have good cars... French has good cooks..We never heard of Germans being good cooks as you never been good at cars...
In a cooperation with Germany, France is gaining more... Germany, Japan and US are three industrial nations almost good at everything... But nations like Italy, France, UK are only good at some and bad at some...

Other than this you are right with you thoughts

Interesting perspective, thanks. For better or for worse, your rivalry with Turks is holding both of you back. As it stands, you get nothing out of this silly rivalry since you have not fought in maybe 100 years, I think. Both of your countries should patch up and develop further ties because otherwise you are too inconsequential in this world today, and will remain this way, in the changing world of tomorrow. Middle East remains attention of global powers for all the wrong reasons, and even if all of you leave Islam, you will not be spared by the Western powers because you are geopolitically active regions with oil, Israel and global choke points for maritime traffic. This makes it more important to both your countries to seek reconciliation and think big - settle your differences and work together.


Actually, you are wrong.

France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Austria, all gain from the European Union. One country's strength is all the other country's strength. That being said, you misunderstand and have very poor knowledge of industrial technologies.

Say, automobiles. What are the best?

No, it is not a regular Volkswagen or Renault that I call the best. To settle the debate since different people obviously have different tastes, let's ask: Which supercar goes the fastest?

Answer: BUGATTI VEYRON

Consider the aviation market both civilian and military. Do you see a German or a Japanese fighter jet? French fighter jets Mirage-III, Mirage-V, Mirage-2000 and finally, Rafale already flying in multiple countries' military colours.

Do you know of any German space programme? Or a 'Germanic' space programme? No? France created and spearheaded the European space programme, too.

Do you know who are the largest nuclear reactor exporting and manufacturing countries? Do you see Germany's name there?

There is the high speed rail that created world record. TGV?

Nuclear powered aircraft carrier? Does Germany or Japan have an equivalent?

Both Germany and Japan are very powerful countries, and developed. They are not militarily quite as independent, and thus, technological development wise inhibited in growth. Your only valid example was the USA, yet like all countries, it does not succeed everywhere, two examples are they are lacking in great automobiles of high quality, and good public transportation with high speed rail, too. Culture, fashion, and cuisine - I give them a pass, new countries take time.

More importantly, less developed minds and societies work the fields, plow the plains for crop and fodder. Agricultural societies usually fall here.

Mid developed societies and minds think about carpentry, mechanical work, ironsmith, and other mid level jobs, this is what you see middle developed societies and civilizations think and achieve. Here we see less historically achieving societies like Sweden punch above their weight with very large number of engineering automobile, aviation, naval, and other manufacturing firms. These societies are middle of the road, they can do some modest complicated work, but not the most complicated ones. They follow other leader countries.

High developed societies and minds think about scientific theories at the forefront of today's human thinking. Mathematics, Physics, Cosmology, Astronomy, Earth, Materials Science, Cognitive or Brain Sciences, and that, leads to many other fields and sectors of human endeavours that last many decades, maybe centuries.

 

[haman10]

Narahat chie baba. Kodum bi adabi, man joz goli ke chizi nadidam azat, ham shahri .hala kojaye karaj mishestid?

@scythian500

Kasi ke be kuroshe kabir tohin mikone, ham timiye man nist.hala be in arabparast, adab yad midam.

Qabele tavajohe bazia ke signature kuroshe kabir daran. lol @haman10

Manam persian nistam vali ehteram b korush = ehterayb tarikh moshtarak irania

 

[Madali]

I did not say this has to be in 5 years, neither I blamed the government. You should share your thoughts. Because the rest of what you said is cliche. The Iranian car industry is a prime example of a national effort. An extremely costly effort. The "Boxer" in "Animal Farm", put in alot of effort and used to say: every one should put in the effort.

I have been living long enough in advanced society to know and tell you that the people here, are putting no more effort than someone in jahan sevom. And yet, you still have to buy your planes and car technology from here among many other things. An American, French, German or British researcher goes out, has his fun, drinks, f**ks and then he or she comes out with solutions for problems. You then buy those solutions at exorbitant prices. Or alternatively he or she can also do the same during WWII under Hitler. "Effortlessly". He/she does not even break a sweat.

The idea that the glorious future is just a few years away (if we put in alittle more effort), is getting old. It has become a cliche. It is better to leave it in a novel or a tragic late night TV show.

I disagree. Most achievements by the west has been due to extra effort, not because they have better brains.

Everyone knows Germans work hard. I have worked with people from many different countries. Countries that are more successful in the world have populations that take work more seriously. It might be clichéd to say Germans are very organized and on time, but I have it through. Have a meeting with an Arab, Turk, or an Iranian, and the first 30 minutes and the last 30 minutes is just talking randomly. Talk to western businessman, and its business from start to finish.

All this matters. It matters that their 9 to 5 is actually 9 to 5, while our 9 to 5 is 9 to 10 breakfast, 12 to 1 lunch, a lot of personal calls, lots of walking around the office, lots of smoking/bathroom breaks, and so on.

It matters than in Iran there is no concept of internship. A student that has finished school expects a good paying job from day 1, anything less is an insult, and would rather stay home until that magical day arrives.

While I believe there are proactive actions to take to change this cultural perception, you somehow seem to think we are the way we are, they are the way they are (goes out, has fun, innovates, doesn't break a sweat). Here is where I strongly disagree.

 

[-SINAN-]

Most of what you said is true hence severely unlikely... Iran and Turkey see each other as rivals... Mild rivals though... They never tighten the rivalry because they are neighbors with lots of connections and never merge as you proposed...

They are rivals for centuries... Iran don't see Arabs as rivalry as Turkey don't see them fit to be a rival... but Turkey and Iran due to many factors are fit to be rivals and benefit from this motivation....The only likely merge would be economy and only when both have +30k per capital.

btw, your smartly placing of French along side Germany is somehow fishy... France is not a quality nation in many techs...

We are rivals...though it's not a bad thing. We agreed on our border and didn't fight against each other since 300 years. That's an important thing IMO, since Europeans were onto each others throat 70 years ago.

I disagree. Most achievements by the west has been due to extra effort, not because they have better brains.

Everyone knows Germans work hard. I have worked with people from many different countries. Countries that are more successful in the world have populations that take work more seriously. It might be clichéd to say Germans are very organized and on time, but I have it through. Have a meeting with an Arab, Turk, or an Iranian, and the first 30 minutes and the last 30 minutes is just talking randomly. Talk to western businessman, and its business from start to finish.

All this matters. It matters that their 9 to 5 is actually 9 to 5, while our 9 to 5 is 9 to 10 breakfast, 12 to 1 lunch, a lot of personal calls, lots of walking around the office, lots of smoking/bathroom breaks, and so on.

It matters than in Iran there is no concept of internship. A student that has finished school expects a good paying job from day 1, anything less is an insult, and would rather stay home until that magical day arrives.

While I believe there are proactive actions to take to change this cultural perception, you somehow seem to think we are the way we are, they are the way they are (goes out, has fun, innovates, doesn't break a sweat). Here is where I strongly disagree.

German hard working is a myth bro. They are very diciplined and organized when it comes to work but they are not hard workers. Infact they have the least working hours per worker in OECD countries.

Turkey has the longest weekly working hours (49.1) but we have too much holidays in a year.
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

 

[Madali]

We are rivals...though it's not a bad thing. We agreed on our border and didn't fight against each other since 300 years. That's an important thing IMO, since Europeans were onto each others throat 70 years ago.


German hard working is a myth bro. They are very diciplined and organized when it comes to work but they are not hard workers. Infact they have the least working hours per worker in OECD countries.

Turkey has the longest weekly working hours (49.1) but we have too much holidays in a year.
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

It's not about working hours, its about how productive you are in those working hours. A 5 hour work time where those 5 hours are utilized effectively is better than 10 hours working time were only 3 hours of that is used well.

You will know more than me but I have seen some of how my Turkish colleagues work. They have a very relaxed attitude towards work. My experience is though very minor so I can't speak with authority but I can say that my countrymen waste a lot of time when working. Meetings are a source of frustration for me.

 

[kollang]

Cheh jor jayie? Rastesho bego ha.

Ghazvinia aziatet keh nakardan?!

Chan bar to sabze meidan dar maraze khatar qarar gereftam .lol

Man reshtam barghe. Raziam. Dolatiye dige, moft bashe kooft bashe.lol

 

[-SINAN-]

It's not about working hours, its about how productive you are in those working hours. A 5 hour work time where those 5 hours are utilized effectively is better than 10 hours working time were only 3 hours of that is used well.

Exactly like that. It doesn't matter how long you work but how you efficiently work.

This my overwork time table is from 2009 when we worked very hard.

91.5 Overwork time in a month.We used to work 52 Hours per week add 23 hours of overwork for week it makes 75 Hours of work in a week !!!

2 Years ago boss said; "We are not gonna work afterhours, we are gonna give lunch break for 1 hour, we won't work in half day in Saturdays. Working too much, doesn't means we are working efficiently and producing much".... work time in a week dropped to 45 Hours. We are producing much more.

You will know more than me but I have seen some of how my Turkish colleagues work. They have a very relaxed attitude towards work. My experience is though very minor so I can't speak with authority but I can say that my countrymen waste a lot of time when working. Meetings are a source of frustration for me.

- Government workers have a very very relaxed attitude towards attitude towards work. It almost like they are doing nothing.
- Private sector workers is the exact opposite.

- Meetings with private sectors happens to be efficient, everybody says what's in their minds, conclusions drawn from the meeting, everybody leaves the meeting with the knowledge how to proceed in the project.
- Meeting with government officials just a waste of time. Hours of chatting, agreeing on subjects that could have been solved on the phone, how to proceed in the project not solved but left to our initiative. When we solve the problem with our initiative, later on government guys can say "Yeah, you solve it this way but let's solve it that way".... (Say, it on the first time fvcker) causing us to doing the same work over and over again.

I'm observing the same thing in defence industy...ANKA-A, ANKA-A+, ANKA-B, ANKA-S......because the government officials change the technical requirements over and over again, project drags.

 

[Madali]

Exactly like that. It doesn't matter how long you work but how you efficiently work.

This my overwork time table is from 2009 when we worked very hard.
View attachment 291582

91.5 Overwork time in a month.We used to work 52 Hours per week add 23 hours of overwork for week it makes 75 Hours of work in a week !!!

2 Years ago boss said; "We are not gonna work afterhours, we are gonna give lunch break for 1 hour, we won't work in half day in Saturdays. Working too much, doesn't means we are working efficiently and producing much".... overwork time in a week droped to 45 Hours. We are producing much more.


- Government workers have a very very relaxed attitude towards attitude towards work. It almost like they are doing nothing.
- Private sector workers is the exact opposite.

- Meetings with private sectors happens to be efficient, everybody says what's in their minds, conclusions drawn from the meeting, everybody leaves the meeting with the knowledge how to proceed in the project.
- Meeting with government officials just a waste of time. Hours of chatting, agreeing on subjects that could have been solved on the phone, how to proceed in the project not solved but left to our initiative. When we solve the problem with our initiative, later on government guys can say "Yeah, you solve it this way but let's solve it that way".... (Say, it on the first time fvcker) causing us to doing the same work over and over again.

I'm observing the same thing in defence industy...ANKA-A, ANKA-A+, ANKA-B, ANKA-S......because the government officials change the technical requirements over and over again, project drags.

I agree with most of what you said.

Also, I think you guys have am advantage of working with the west and private companies learning how to be more efficient from western companies.

Here is an interesting article I found about labor productivity,
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...ivity.aspx?pageID=238&nID=69609&NewsCatID=347

We have to work smart, not hard.

 

[-SINAN-]

ere is an interesting article I found about labor productivity,
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tu...ivity.aspx?pageID=238&nID=69609&NewsCatID=347

We have to work smart, not hard.

Mining sector is a disaster.....The overall problem with the Turkey is not the regulations, in most sectors regulations derived from US&EU norms and might be even better than theirs (fire protection, earthquake regulations are far better than theirs). The problem is these norms should be enforced by government, but government looks the other way, when companies doesn't abide by the regulations. So, implementation of the norms/regulations in generally not working well in Turkey.

 

[Hack-Hook]

We are rivals...though it's not a bad thing. We agreed on our border and didn't fight against each other since 300 years. That's an important thing IMO, since Europeans were onto each others throat 70 years ago.


German hard working is a myth bro. They are very diciplined and organized when it comes to work but they are not hard workers. Infact they have the least working hours per worker in OECD countries.

Turkey has the longest weekly working hours (49.1) but we have too much holidays in a year.
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS

are you sure its correct they put Greece nearly at the top of the list.

 

[Daneshmand]

We are rivals...though it's not a bad thing. We agreed on our border and didn't fight against each other since 300 years. That's an important thing IMO, since Europeans were onto each others throat 70 years ago.

A historian once told me, it is the oldest border in the world at 376 years old (unchanged, un-colonized, no wars etc since). I do not know really, but if it is, then it should be made into a tourist attraction, specially with all things going on in middle east.

I disagree. Most achievements by the west has been due to extra effort, not because they have better brains.

Everyone knows Germans work hard. I have worked with people from many different countries. Countries that are more successful in the world have populations that take work more seriously. It might be clichéd to say Germans are very organized and on time, but I have it through. Have a meeting with an Arab, Turk, or an Iranian, and the first 30 minutes and the last 30 minutes is just talking randomly. Talk to western businessman, and its business from start to finish.

All this matters. It matters that their 9 to 5 is actually 9 to 5, while our 9 to 5 is 9 to 10 breakfast, 12 to 1 lunch, a lot of personal calls, lots of walking around the office, lots of smoking/bathroom breaks, and so on.

It matters than in Iran there is no concept of internship. A student that has finished school expects a good paying job from day 1, anything less is an insult, and would rather stay home until that magical day arrives.

While I believe there are proactive actions to take to change this cultural perception, you somehow seem to think we are the way we are, they are the way they are (goes out, has fun, innovates, doesn't break a sweat). Here is where I strongly disagree.

I do not know. Maybe the Germans do not talk when in Arab lands, since there is no cultural mutuality over which to talk. Or maybe because Germans are really the way they are as your experience living in Germany says. I can only say what I see. What I see is, North Americans also "waste" time, they also talk endlessly about hockey or football (even in the workplace). They also get late. They also like to cut corners.

I am not by any means, letting down the importance of hard work. Specially in repetitive works, the manual work and the bureaucratic work (accounting etc) productivity per hour is very important. But you are wrong about productivity per hour playing a role in innovation. I simply do not see that, in North America at least.

Long time ago, Canada wanted to create a nuclear industry for itself. But US prohibited Canada from having enrichment and Canada did not want to be dependent for fuel on outside sources as Canada itself has a large reserve of uranium. The Canadians also loved to take vacation, talk about hockey the whole day, go ice-skating, drink beer over a barbecue and get late and blame the weather and public transport/traffic/"car trouble".

But all this, did not mean Canada would not have a nuclear industry. In fact Canada designed and builds one of the safest and most sophisticated power reactors in the world with one big advantage, their fuel do not need enrichment. Well technically, they can be fueled anything from waste to weapon fuel to natural uranium to plutonium mix. And Canada did this, with very minimal budget, inventing many technologies needed for the task. The beer rounds never stopped though. Hockey went on as well.

By the way, Germans are really fun, they love to go nude and walk around pretending they are wearing clothes . And they also love to drink beer.

Maybe we should start drinking beer. I don't know. You are talking cliche, and I am not interested anymore in this topic, specially since ma darim beh oropa daru va tajhizat pezeshki sader ham mikonim (beshkaneh in dast bi-namak keh daroye oropa ro ta'min mikoneh va khodesh tahrim daro misheh ).

Chan bar to sabze meidan dar maraze khatar qarar gereftam .lol

Man reshtam barghe. Raziam. Dolatiye dige, moft bashe kooft bashe.lol

Zamani keh ma onja bodim sabze meidan jaye motaada bood. Beh tor koli ghazvinia adamaye badi nistan, yeh kam torkan digeh, lol.

Omidvaram moafagh bashi. Vaghean ghadr in daneshgahai moft dolati ro bedonin (Inam malom nist ta ki moft bemonan). To amrika shahrieh daneshgah kamar-shekaneh, makhsosan to reshtehai professional.

 

[Madali]

A historian once told me, it is the oldest border in the world at 376 years old (unchanged, un-colonized, no wars etc since). I do not know really, but if it is, then it should be made into a tourist attraction, specially with all things going on in middle east.



I do not know. Maybe the Germans do not talk when in Arab lands, since there is no cultural mutuality over which to talk. Or maybe because Germans are really the way they are as your experience living in Germany says. I can only say what I see. What I see is, North Americans also "waste" time, they also talk endlessly about hockey or football (even in the workplace). They also get late. They also like to cut corners.

I am not by any means, letting down the importance of hard work. Specially in repetitive works, the manual work and the bureaucratic work (accounting etc) productivity per hour is very important. But you are wrong about productivity per hour playing a role in innovation. I simply do not see that, in North America at least.

Long time ago, Canada wanted to create a nuclear industry for itself. But US prohibited Canada from having enrichment and Canada did not want to be dependent for fuel on outside sources as Canada itself has a large reserve of uranium. The Canadians also loved to take vacation, talk about hockey the whole day, go ice-skating, drink beer over a barbecue and get late and blame the weather and public transport/traffic/"car trouble".

But all this, did not mean Canada would not have a nuclear industry. In fact Canada designed and builds one of the safest and most sophisticated power reactors in the world with one big advantage, their fuel do not need enrichment. Well technically, they can be fueled anything from waste to weapon fuel to natural uranium to plutonium mix. And Canada did this, with very minimal budget, inventing many technologies needed for the task. The beer rounds never stopped though. Hockey went on as well.

By the way, Germans are really fun, they love to go nude and walk around pretending they are wearing clothes . And they also love to drink beer.

Maybe we should start drinking beer. I don't know. You are talking cliche, and I am not interested anymore in this topic, specially since ma darim beh oropa daru va tajhizat pezeshki sader ham mikonim (beshkaneh in dast bi-namak keh daroye oropa ro ta'min mikoneh va khodesh tahrim daro misheh ).


Zamani keh ma onja bodim sabze meidan jaye motaada bood. Beh tor koli ghazvinia adamaye badi nistan, yeh kam torkan digeh, lol.

Omidvaram moafagh bashi. Vaghean ghadr in daneshgahai moft dolati ro bedonin (Inam malom nist ta ki moft bemonan). To amrika shahrieh daneshgah kamar-shekaneh, makhsosan to reshtehai professional.

I just noticed this article today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...used-to-do-to-monitor-workplace-productivity/

"In his early years at Microsoft, Gates — once known for pulling all-nighters and crashing on his office floor — was apparently not a big fan of downtime, for himself or anyone else, he told interviewer Kristy Young.


"I worked weekends, I didn't really believe in vacations," Gates said. "I had to be a little careful not to try and apply my standards to how hard [others] worked. I knew everybody's licence plate so I could look out at the parking lot and see, you know, when people come in.""

...

Allen, the Microsoft co-founder, described the early days of the company as a "high-stress environment," where Gates "drove others as hard as he drove himself." Allen referred to his former partner as a "taskmaster" who would "prowl" the parking lot on weekends to document who had arrived at work.


Not surprisingly, Gates' monitoring wasn't well-received.


"Bob Greenberg," Allen wrote, "a Harvard classmate of Bill's whom we'd hired, once put in 81 hours in four days, Monday through Thursday, to finish part of the Texas Instruments BASIC. When Bill touched base toward the end of Bob’s marathon, he asked him, 'What are you working on tomorrow?'


"Bob said, 'I was planning to take the day off.'


"And Bill said, 'Why would you want to do that?' He genuinely couldn’t understand it; he never seemed to need to recharge."

----

But I guess, you think Westerns have special Brains, and companies like Microsoft became successful because people like Bill Gates just thought up a new idea between fucking and drinking beer.

I'm sorry, brother, but can you tell me exactly why you think there is a gap? Do you think its just that they have naturally better brains?

Anyway, I don't have the solution yet, you have lived in and worked in North America, so you know more than me, I will grant you that.

Hopefully, my thoughts have some value, and i have made use of the posters here who disagree with me. Let's revisit this topic in the future. Thanks for taking the time to share your ideas.

 

[-SINAN-]

are you sure its correct they put Greece nearly at the top of the list.

Hımmm...maybe most of them got fired, remaning ones are working hard to not get fired.....

poor Gayreeks. Wish we had some Greek members.

A historian once told me, it is the oldest border in the world at 376 years old (unchanged, un-colonized, no wars etc since). I do not know really, but if it is, then it should be made into a tourist attraction, specially with all things going on in middle east.

Hımm, might be true.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

I have to deal with too many retards on a daily basis , i seriously can't deal with this one too

Hey Genius what are you doing?