Iranian Chill Thread

[Daneshmand]

sorry mate , i don't agree with all due respect .

darwinism has many holes in it . debating it is a very long and destructive discussion as u may know .

so i'll leave it here , but you - as a doctor - know what i'm talking about .

till those legit questions are unanswered and a bunch of non-sense is fed to people just to justify atheist failed ideologies ,i'm out

No worries. Disagreements are natural.

Actually the atheist/believer ideologies and its relation with Darwin's theory is something completely arising from Christianity which was then imported to Islam.

Modern biology without Darwin is pretty much like cars without wheels.

Shia Islam is actually quite neutral on the subject and does not reject Darwin's theory (as Christianity and Sunni Islam do). In fact both Ayatollahs in Iran, and the government have tried their best to block the entry of 'Creationist' lobbies into Iran. That is why Iran does not have 'Creationist' movements as they are present in other countries like US or Turkey. Though it is understandably difficult for a religious authority to domesticate scientific theories as part of faith (since science is progressive and ever evolving while religion is static), but the degree to which Iranian religious leaders have demonstrated they are willing to let people learn about evolution in official text books is indicative that they do not see Darwin's evolution as the same way devout Christians, Jews and Sunnis see it. Take the example of Israel, that only allowed evolution to be taught to school children last year (this also in a very censored fashion). Before that the Israeli children were being taught creationist account of life in their biology books as per biblical stories .

By comparison Iranian kids have been reading about Darwin, his life, his battle and evolution before they had even grown pubic hair, all in official school text books. See this for example, an American research paper comparing Iran and Saudi Arabia on this subject: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/19234639/1613108208/name/Iran+and+Saudi+Arabia+Compared.pdf&ei=vdfoVMy5DM20yASXq4HACg&usg=AFQjCNEyHqajZ0u0TNJG4i9DDQxu2agz_A&bvm=bv.86475890,d.aWw


At any rate, Muslim scholars used to harbor such ideas long before, and every one was fine back then. Take the case of Tusi who had actually theorized quite a similar idea to Darwin's theory. Even today there is no opposition to Tusi's idea among Iranians. Yet another proof that this fight was imported from the Christian world. Another case of "qarb-zadegi" .

In a sense, Iranian religious leaders have done all they could to avoid any conflict between Shia ideology and science by leaving the playing field all open and letting the scientists to think for themselves without having to worry about religion in this regard. Now it is upto you (if you choose to be a scientist) to take up the task.

 

[haman10]

دوستان عزیز من تازه اومدم به این انجمن اگه یه موقع کل کل شد سریعا من و خبر کنید که یه حالی به دوستان بدیم دلم لک زده واسه یه ترول وار مشتی

khosh oumadi azizam

faghat inja farsi ham harfeto nazan terrorist dare ke farsi ham baladan

 

[Abii]

@haman10

You're trying to become a doctor and you don't accept Darwin's theories? How did you get accepted to university? I'm not trying to insult you here, but how can you pass your classes if you don't accept the evolution or, say, Newton's laws??

 

[haman10]

@haman10

You're trying to become a doctor and you don't accept Darwin's theories? How did you get accepted to university? I'm not trying to insult you here, but how can you pass your classes if you don't accept the evolution or, say, Newton's laws??

abii jan, they're not the same

What do you know about darwin and his theory ? my 2 cents : Nothing .

yeah , i have done a lot of studies regarding the issue and be sure i rarely talk outta my butthole

there is much to it , many questions unanswered or given shitty answers .

its a theory dear , nothing more .

 

[jack 86000]

http://hw2.asset.aparat.com/aparat-video/6d984efaf1d4833e1b3a8c67b8c7b4782140577-360p.mp4
چطوره؟؟؟
یهویی

 

[KingMamba]

abii jan, they're not the same

What do you know about darwin and his theory ? my 2 cents : Nothing .

yeah , i have done a lot of studies regarding the issue and be sure i rarely talk outta my butthole

there is much to it , many questions unanswered or given shitty answers .

its a theory dear , nothing more .

Do you find yourselves at odds with macro or micro evolution? Afaik most Muslims accept micro evolution but many dispute Darwins theory of macro evolution.

 

[Daneshmand]

Do you find yourselves at odds with macro or micro evolution? Afaik most Muslims accept micro evolution but many dispute Darwins theory of macro evolution.

In Shia Islam, there is no "micro-macro" controversy.

In Christian theology which is the origin of these disputes, a central ideology does not allow for evolution to be accepted. The ideology that God individually CREATED everything and that Adam and Eve are the first humans and that these all happened a few thousand years ago. Science rejects this. In fact in West, many people leave Christianity in university and become atheist when they find their faith can not account for scientific view.

For example see this explanation from Qom (the center of Shia learning): Was Prophet Adam the eighth person to live on earth? - Questions Archive - IslamQuest is a reference for Islamic questions on the internet

Shia Islam is not of the view that Adam and Eve were the only first humans. Actually there are traditions in Shia Islam per which we are not even the only people currently living and there are other worlds/planets inhabited by people.

Even major Shia Ulema have no problem with it. Ayatollah Motaheri, for instance had written on these matters and had declared that evolution might as well be true and is not in contradiction with Islam.

 

[Abii]

abii jan, they're not the same

What do you know about darwin and his theory ? my 2 cents : Nothing .

yeah , i have done a lot of studies regarding the issue and be sure i rarely talk outta my butthole

there is much to it , many questions unanswered or given shitty answers .

its a theory dear , nothing more .

My major in university was Anthropology before I switched to business and accounting. Your 2 cents are more like 2 rials, useless and worthless.

In a normal country you wouldn't be running your mouth off like a bitch acting like a know it all. A person that doesn't believe in the natural laws of our universe can't get through university in a developed country.

 

[Daneshmand]

@haman10

You're trying to become a doctor and you don't accept Darwin's theories? How did you get accepted to university? I'm not trying to insult you here, but how can you pass your classes if you don't accept the evolution or, say, Newton's laws??

There are alot of Western doctors who reject evolution and Darwin's theories. They got through the med school just fine. As there are physicists who do not believe in relativity. Science allows for diversity.

 

[Abii]

There are alot of Western doctors who reject evolution and Darwin's theories. They got through the med school just fine. As there are physicists who do not believe in relativity. Science allows for diversity.

I knew you'd mention that. Outside the American South and Midwest, that's unknown. They also get through med school b/c they shut their mouths. You can't even pass grade 11 high school biology with nonsense religious beliefs.

And we're talking 0.00001% doctors who lied their way through med school and undergrad.

Edit: and there's a difference between "pseudoscience" and actual science. A lot of those scientists are considered "pseudoscientists" and have no presence in accepted common literature.

 

[Daneshmand]

I knew you'd mention that. Outside the American South and Midwest, that's unknown. They also get through med school b/c they shut their mouths. You can't even pass grade 11 high school biology with nonsense religious beliefs.

Outside or inside. It does not matter. They exist in quite substantial numbers. In fact too numerous for my comfort level. Another point that you should remember, they have organizations, funding and huge conferences and political and religious lobbies. None of these exist in Iran. Even @haman10 has studied it since grade 5 and passed his exams (kept his mouth shut ). So your point is moot.

 

[yavar]

Saudi Arabia is buying ballistic missiles to counter Iran threat

Hugh Tomlinsoni n Riyadh and Tom Coghlan

Last updated at 12:01AM, February 19 2015

Saudi Arabia is to expand its ballistic missile programme as it bolsters its deterrent to the threat from Iran in the covert arms race unfolding between the arch-enemies of the Gulf.

Riyadh has amassed surface-to- surface ballistic missiles and British-built cruise missiles as it seeks to counter Iran’s disputed nuclear programme.

The threat of a further escalation in the race to acquire more potent missile strike capabilities comes amid Saudi Arabia’s scepticism .



Saudi Arabia is buying ballistic missiles to counter Iran threat | The Times

 

[KingMamba]

In Shia Islam, there is no "micro-macro" controversy.

In Christian theology which is the origin of these disputes, a central ideology does not allow for evolution to be accepted. The ideology that God individually CREATED everything and that Adam and Eve are the first humans and that these all happened a few thousand years ago. Science rejects this. In fact in West, many people leave Christianity in university and become atheist when they find their faith can not account for scientific view.

For example see this explanation from Qom (the center of Shia learning): Was Prophet Adam the eighth person to live on earth? - Questions Archive - IslamQuest is a reference for Islamic questions on the internet

Shia Islam is not of the view that Adam and Eve were the only first humans. Actually there are traditions in Shia Islam per which we are not even the only people currently living and there are other worlds/planets inhabited by people.

Even major Shia Ulema have no problem with it. Ayatollah Motaheri, for instance had written on these matters and had declared that evolution might as well be true and is not in contradiction with Islam.

Thanks for the Shia view, I learned a lot. Sunnis also largely agree with evolution but there is also a view amongst Sunnis in the line of creationism which basically borrows arguments from Christian creationists.

As for my point about macro evolution the argument has more to do with general Islamic theology and worldview then anything related specifically to Sunnis.

I knew you'd mention that. Outside the American South and Midwest, that's unknown. They also get through med school b/c they shut their mouths. You can't even pass grade 11 high school biology with nonsense religious beliefs.

And we're talking 0.00001% doctors who lied their way through med school and undergrad.

Edit: and there's a difference between "pseudoscience" and actual science. A lot of those scientists are considered "pseudoscientists" and have no presence in accepted common literature.

That is BS, I went through all my schooling in the North East US and many people could and actually have passed 11th grade biology without even knowing anything about evolution past it's name let alone whether or not they accept it as fact. The schooling system here has less to do with teaching and more to do with churning out workers for the job market. Which is part of the reason why Americans get the rep for being dumb because are our public schooling system is shit.

 

[Daneshmand]

And we're talking 0.00001% doctors who lied their way through med school and undergrad.

Edit: and there's a difference between "pseudoscience" and actual science. A lot of those scientists are considered "pseudoscientists" and have no presence in accepted common literature.

Wow. That is quite a fast edit. Even before my reply. Not much thought went into it, I assume.

Since there are only 10 million doctors or so in the entire world, your value of 0.00001% would mean only one such doctor exists who as per you, does not believe in evolution. Since we know @haman10 does not believe it, then as per your statement, there must be no other doctor in the world who does not believe in evolution anymore.

We both know it is not true. Someone who has studied accounting must be much more accurate with numbers than that. Accuracy in numbers and fractions are the evolution and the Darwin of accounting. So there you go. A pseudo-accountant!

Thanks for the Shia view, I learned a lot. Sunnis also largely agree with evolution but there is also a view amongst Sunnis in the line of creationism which basically borrows arguments from Christian creationists.

As for my point about macro evolution the argument has more to do with general Islamic theology and worldview then anything related specifically to Sunnis.

You are welcome. I doubt if Sunni Ulema have reached such a conclusion. Based on my knowledge, Sunni Ulema are pretty much against evolution in all its forms, specially the Salafi/Wahabi/Deobandi ones . But even other Sunnis have hostile views of it. (you are welcome to refute this, though)

One reason might be the literal translations of religious texts but you are also right that alot has been borrowed from Christian creationists eg. take the case of Sunni Adnan Otkar who is heavily attached to and in contact with Christian creationists (probably even funded by Western creationists). Adnan Otkar had even tried to build a lobby for creationists in Iran by cajoling Iranian education ministry, and attempting to distribute creationist books among Iranian school children as he does in Turkey and other Islamic countries. He was swiftly deported from Iran and made persona non grata. Basically Iranian government does not want to even hear about creationism.

 

[haman10]

In a normal country you wouldn't be running your mouth off like a bitch acting like a know it all. A person that doesn't believe in the natural laws of our universe can't get through university in a developed country.

what are you talking about abii ? you have no idea whats this about do you ? Anthropology my a$$ abii jan

This is a theory , its not a law , its not 2*2=4 . i am a scientist and you are not , just STFU man

Do you find yourselves at odds with macro or micro evolution? Afaik most Muslims accept micro evolution but many dispute Darwins theory of macro evolution.

i've got lots of questions about the origin of life , i do not accept any kind of shitty theory based on darwinism .

have you heard anything about cambrian radiation ? have you ever studied the science of probability regarding the origin of life ?

yeah , these kind of discussions have been around for years and years and no scientific response was given . i donno if you have ever debated with an atheist or not , but the discussion can get pretty ugly . they never stay on topic they always jump from one discussion to the other .

kept his mouth shut

lol , but there is no need to "keep your mouth shut" here in iran regarding any sort of science .

scientific discussions are allowed and after all , what did i know about darwinism till 4 years ago ? nothing ! just an outline sketch .

ketab pishdaneshgahi va aval dabirestan bishtar dar moredesh sohbat shode , ke ouna chize kheyli khasi nist .

darwinism hast ba bubble theory , ounam faghat tozih mokhtasar

@Daneshmand. Agha een aksam faghat b yaad shoma gereftam emrooz. Lol

Aks male bimarestan ghalb o oroughe kermanshah hast b esme emam ali. Tooye net searchesh kon. Hala ino dashte bash :

Avalan ke cardic nist cardiac hast, lol

Dovoman cardiac nist coronery


CCU : coronery care unit