Iranian Air Defense Systems

[Draco.IMF]

@WinterNights

The missile @Draco.IMF showed, what we call Kamin-2 is what is used with the Mersad, a missile that at least distantly belongs to the Sayyad family.
9-Day is something new, smaller and most likely for 3rd Khordad family.

ok, i thouht this 9-Day is the missile belonging to Kamin-2
So many unveilings the last days we see is astonishing.
I have a gutfeeling they let the best unveiling (B-373) will come at last, lets hope in some days....

 

[WinterNights]

@WinterNights

The missile @Draco.IMF showed, what we call Kamin-2 is what is used with the Mersad, a missile that at least distantly belongs to the Sayyad family.
9-Day is something new, smaller and most likely for 3rd Khordad family.

I am starting to lose track of all these missiles. It feels like it was only yesterday that we were dreaming of a good Iranian air defence systems. Today there's too many to name

 

[Draco.IMF]

So this are the Crotale (Herz-9) mounted on a Mercedes truck:

Why they are not puting a radar on it like Pantsir has, imagine this one mounted on the mercedes truck:

is it because Iran dont has this technology our it would be a too costly system?

 

[arashkamangir]

So this are the Crotale (Herz-9) mounted on a Mercedes truck:

Why they are not puting a radar on it like Pantsir has, imagine this one mounted on the mercedes truck:

is it because Iran dont has this technology our it would be a too costly system?

I suppose to bring down cost. Recent Israeli strikes has thought Iran value lessons. Small Diameter munitions can strike cheaply at 10s of kilometers away. I suppose Iran wants to reduce cost of loss by making assets cheaper while mobile.

 

[PeeD]

Such continuous emitting search radars are the reason why the Syrian Pantsir received a saturation attack by Israeli anti-radar suicide drone.

You want to have something passive if possible to avoid attracting such weapons.

Today Iran can use IIR cameras of high performance to search for targets and submit them to individual YZ-3 launchers for attack. If you stay passive and don't turn on the flashlight you survive more likely.

When original Pantsir was developed appropriate IIR cameras were either not available or too expensive. This is somewhat recent technology that came up in the west in the 90's, Russians and Chinese got in the 2000's and Iran in this decade, roughly speaking.

There is no doubt that a radar like the Pantsirs offers higher situational awareness and easier management when facing a saturation attack. But a system in the protected center should do that, like the Bashir, around it passive systems such as a Seraj-YZ hybrid would be the best way.
Iran understood this principle with the Raad SAM system which removed the search radar of the SA-7 "staight flush" to replace it with IIR search system.
Going the path of the most up to date technology without old habits or traditions is the way for something really new.

The IIR cameras available to Iran today, should be a magnitude cheaper than a PESA search radar on the Pantsir.

 

[mohsen]

Baby missile:

 

[YeBeWarned]

Is iran using any of these AD system in Syria ?

 

[Draco.IMF]

Baby missile:

the smallest one is the 9-Day missile i assume

As @PeeD mentioned, its possible 6 of them could be placed on the 3rd Khordad system
Missile positioning could look similar to the Buk M3 (with or without canisters)

 

[PeeD]

More good news: There is a 35mm AHEAD round among the shells, the IRIADF needs that since they have no Mesbah-2 like AAA ("CIWS").

 

[Sineva]

the smallest one is the 9-Day missile i assume

As @PeeD mentioned, its possible 6 of them could be placed on the 3rd Khordad system
Missile positioning could look similar to the Buk M3 (with or without canisters)

Yes,the 9K317M Viking would be a very good model for future raad/3rd khordad upgrades or even a spin off system of its own.
Interestingly the russian have produced another short ranged sam,the sosna,which appears to be somewhat modeled on the pantsir,but to use laser guidance rather than sar.I wonder if this was because of the claimed mediocre performance of the pantsir in syria?
Something for iran to look at I think,interestingly there are multiple claims that iran either had or still does have the Swedish rbs70 which is a laser guided manpad,tho I have never actually seen any proof of this,but some accurate sources reported the sale so....

More good news: There is a 35mm AHEAD round among the shells, the IRIADF needs that since they have no Mesbah-2 like AAA ("CIWS").

What about all the flak zwilling type systems that were built and deployed in the early to mid 2000s?.

Or the mesbah 1

Who operates these systems then?,you`d think that gun based systems like these would be used in huge numbers by the adf,virtually its backbone in fact.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

Waiting for Bavar 373... 5 days left!

 

[yavar]

So this are the Crotale (Herz-9) mounted on a Mercedes truck:

yes, because of need for the mass production Herz-9, our military tuck producer cannot produce such high quantity truck in 4 mouths or year in big numbers so M.O.D needed to finsh the contract which they had, so the only posible option they had was to find big number of truck which was Mercedes

Why they are not puting a radar on it like Pantsiris it because Iran dont has this technology our it would be a too costly system?

no is not because of technology we already have the radar technology and much better one.
it because the Herz-9,is inactive passive system and it is designed to withstand any electronic jamming or warfare and no radiation or signal or radar signature should be in system to keep it as inactive system

 

[PeeD]

Yes,the 9K317M Viking would be a very good model for future raad/3rd khordad upgrades or even a spin off system of its own.
Interestingly the russian have produced another short ranged sam,the sosna,which appears to be somewhat modeled on the pantsir,but to use laser guidance rather than sar.I wonder if this was because of the claimed mediocre performance of the pantsir in syria?
Something for iran to look at I think,interestingly there are multiple claims that iran either had or still does have the Swedish rbs70 which is a laser guided manpad,tho I have never actually seen any proof of this,but some accurate sources reported the sale so....

What about all the flak zwilling type systems that were built and deployed in the early to mid 2000s?.

Or the mesbah 1

Who operates these systems then?,you`d think that gun based systems like these would be used in huge numbers by the adf,virtually its backbone in fact.

Good point, the reasons for Sosna development explains everything about passive system strategy.
The laser beam guidance is more jam proof than radar guidance but the YZ/Herz-9 can use a mode in which it does not track the target but uses radar-beam-riding mode. That mode is the same as the Sosna, just done by radar instead of laser.

Sosna on the other hand does not to have an as effective search IIR system as the Seraj.
A issue with the YZ/Herz-9 is that it uses a kinematically dated missile that is not on pair with the very fast missiles on the Pantsir and Sosna. But on the other hand, the Crotale missile might be a good design because of cost effectiveness and use of economic materials and techniques. For use against PGMs/CMs, the Gs a Crotale missile can pull might be really sufficient.
But that windtunnel model showed that Iran is working on a kinematically strong missile.
I really like the Sosna design its like a YZ-3 with more, (more) lethal missiles and laser instead of radar, both are single target passive systems.

As for the Mesbah series: They are in service foremost with IRGC. The IRIADF favors and keeps 35mm guns and here a AHEAD round has the potential to make it as potent as the Mesbah series.
The Mesbah series was the anti-CM/PGM backbone of the IRGC and an amazing system/concept back then. But AHEAD concept may prove more cost effective and lethal.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

[QUOTE = "Draco.IMF, post: 11151058, member: 166252"] Voici donc la Crotale (Herz-9) montée sur un camion Mercedes:

Pourquoi ils ne mettent pas un radar dessus comme Pantsir, imaginez celui-ci monté sur le camion Mercedes:

Est-ce parce que l'Iran n'a pas cette technologie, ce serait un système trop coûteux? [/ QUOTE]

 

[arashkamangir]

Good point, the reasons for Sosna development explains everything about passive system strategy.
The laser beam guidance is more jam proof than radar guidance but the YZ/Herz-9 can use a mode in which it does not track the target but uses radar-beam-riding mode. That mode is the same as the Sosna, just done by radar instead of laser.

Sosna on the other hand does not to have an as effective search IIR system as the Seraj.
A issue with the YZ/Herz-9 is that it uses a kinematically dated missile that is not on pair with the very fast missiles on the Pantsir and Sosna. But on the other hand, the Crotale missile might be a good design because of cost effectiveness and use of economic materials and techniques. For use against PGMs/CMs, the Gs a Crotale missile can pull might be really sufficient.
But that windtunnel model showed that Iran is working on a kinematically strong missile.
I really like the Sosna design its like a YZ-3 with more, (more) lethal missiles and laser instead of radar, both are single target passive systems.

As for the Mesbah series: They are in service foremost with IRGC. The IRIADF favors and keeps 35mm guns and here a AHEAD round has the potential to make it as potent as the Mesbah series.
The Mesbah series was the anti-CM/PGM backbone of the IRGC and an amazing system/concept back then. But AHEAD concept may prove more cost effective and lethal.

How many simultaneous engagement can such systems achieve?