Iranian Air Defense Systems

[VEVAK]

Iranian quantum researches has already passed lab test barrier and could successfully make the distanced particle to entangle! meters away from its twin particle... 80 Iranian scientists are now working on entanglement tests for distances of 7 kms this year and 15 kms next year.

and let us not forget that even most advanced nations in new technologies like UK, Germany or France just recently (2013-2015) started to work on this field.. For now, China is ahead as they have tested it for 700 kms..

Most of current global leaders in science, tech and military are those nations who were present in the race for tech and research back in 19th and 20th centuries. Back then, Iran was absent and was busy recovering from a series of unfortunate internal and international disasters.

But this time, Iranian authorities and the Supreme leader personally, reacted quick. This is why, Iran started to focus on new and future science and techs (Nano, biophysics, biochemistry, quantum, stem cells, AI, multi-disciplinary fields, new materials, plasma, etc) alongside keeping an emphasis on major feeding fields like engineering, mathematics, Information systems, composites, etc). This is why ,this time, future of Iran is promising... Some would say, not all Iranian research papers listed in rankings are high quality papers... Yes, many students are doing it to have a better C.V... but let's not forget that papers in complex sciences are very legit generally... These fields are so complex that only high IQ nerds are after studying in them..

Another thing is that, although comparing to other pioneers in new sciences Iran spends much less but it is a direct result of current financial situation in Iran. Sanctions... Economic mismanagement... politically oriented minds... thieves who accumulate money to spend it on next elections! Especially when reformist governments are in power.. u know they are proved to be a relaxed, laid back, incompetent party type who does not want to risk and advent for a better future.. If it was up to them, they would be happy to surrender to US and Israel and just sell oil and have happy life with petrodollars.. like Saudis... but thanks God, although they can hinder Iranian progress to some scale but still are not the whole force in Iran... There are angel forces as well...!!

At the same time, one billion dollars spent on research in Iran could be equal to 10 billions of international dollars in other industrial nations. Iranian scientists learnt how to keep expenses very minimal.. This in addition to higher purchasing power of every dollar in Iran helped new sciences to progress fast in Iran..

In addition to formal amounts of investment on research we have unofficial research spending that is not listed anywhere.. Imagine how many billion of dollars IRGC alone spent on her numerous strategic researches... Imagine how much research is being done by thousands of privately- owned high tech start ups and manufacturers...

This is why with little budget that government allocated to hundreds of different research centers we still see rapid progress in new sciences..

It is not enough for sure... but things are on the right track... We have thousands of high techs and start ups... Most of these will stay small...but I,m sure there will be many successful brands with enough income to be able to have their own research investments... couple of years ago, most of private high techs were small start ups who were desperately after having small orders for their products... But today, we have many successful high tech firms already... Some of them are nearing the billion dollar threshold.. So, naturally, we would see at least a bunch of knowledge based companies who grow enough to have extra money to spend it on new serious research..

The sanctions was a hit to this process... But I,m sure, Iran will shine one again and very soon.. Actually a scientifically advanced and pioneer Muslim Iran is what the WEST is fearing the most... If it is done then, their whole destiny will be changed... Muslims will find a true role model to follow...and this is an existential threat for Western powers...

Yup THE MOST IMPORTANT factor today is that we are on the right track and we may have started 50 to 100 years later than most of the advanced countries in the world and logically that effects our current products compared to there's simply because they have had far more time to build, fund and upgrade their infrastructure. But in time, that difference in products produced will naturally be reduced year by year because today despite all the economic hardships imposed on Iran by foreigners we are on the right track and we have moved passed being simple consumers of foreign products where the profit of each foreign product purchased in Iran was going to the development of infrastructure and enrichment of other countries and we've moved away from being that country that couldn't build its own Dam's, Cars, industrial equipment... to producers & builders. And we have moved away from that TO SARRI KHOR country that didn't even have full control over it's own infrastructure or it's own Tourism industry, that couldn't even maintain the military equipment purchased to defend the country let alone produce any real weapons, who had over 100 years of absolute neglect in it's human resources that directly led to neglect across every infrastructure & indigenous industry in the country.
And future generations of Iranians who look back at there countries history will clearly see and recognize when the turning point for Iran started, how it started and how it came to be.

But at the end of the day all the blame doesn't fall on the reformists because when other parties in Iran hold such absurd views when it comes to Hejab, Music, Entertainment... you leave people no other choice.
Also during Khatami by the % of our GDP Iran spent far more money on it's military than any other Post war Iranian government and the country took giant leaps when it came to it's military industry which directly lead to giant leaps across the civilian sector and somehow Reformist went from a party that was making major leaps like suddenly turning Iran into a country that builds it's own Subs, Warships, Jet engines,.... To a party whos members today go on the floor of the Majles and talk about reduction of military spending in a country that hardly spends any money on it's military while the American have built over 30 bases surrounding the country. And they have gone from the party of progress to the party of impotence
But they still have vast support amongst the public simply because other conservative parties take absurdly illogical positions when it comes to issues like Hejab, Music and Entertainment that directly effects Iran's tourism industry and economy.

 

[Sineva]

Interesting picture from janes that shows 2 sayyad launchers being used with the ofogh fire control radar as well as the new vehicle mounted version of the hawk/mersad search radar.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Interesting picture from janes that shows 2 sayyad launchers being used with the ofogh fire control radar as well as the new vehicle mounted version of the hawk/mersad search radar.

Well they were supposed to be modular and be able to interact with each other.

 

[PeeD]

Ok I'm now quite sure that a silent revolution is taking place in the field of SAM systems and Iran is a forerunner in it.

The recent video about the documentary on the Nebo-M and Zuhai 2018 have confirmed something I was thinking about since a while but never had a case of a foreign example.

Here is the thing:
The performance of a SARH/SAGG/TVM SAM is directly in relation with the illumination power of the engagement radar.
The S-300/-400 series is so deadly because it puts a high amount of EM power on the target. So much that jammers can't easily counter it, it "burns trough" the jamming signal.

Now comparing the Bavar-373 and S-400 engagement radars we see the following: The S-400 has a higher amount of emitting elements creating an about 50% or 100% larger aperture area.

To support a 200km range SARH/SAGG/TVM guided SAM, to achieve the same performance as a S-400, you don't just need twice as powerful elements but several times higher power levels (non-linear relation).

So the question is how could the Iranian claim that Bavar-373 is equivalent or better than the S-300PMU2 be true?

Here is the most likely answer: Dual band technology with separated emitting and receiving elements.
The the end of the Nebo-M documentary they show a experimental radar system and say that it will have separate transmitting and receiving elements.
At Zuhai 2018 a new engagement radar for the HQ-16 SAM was shown and it also had a dual band arrangement.

The idea behind the Russian system is clearly to have very high power elements emitting and sensitive elements receiving.
In that way the transmitting element becomes less complex and can handle higher power levels.
With such an approach it could be possible to achieve similarly high illumination power levels as the larger S-300/-400 with a smaller aperture size and fewer elements.
So could the Bavar-373 have 3-4 more powerful transmitting elements that don't use a space/lens feed system but a direct one?
In total far fetched but after the revelations of the last days it would become a possible answer for the claims on the Bavar-373.
There is another hint: The first mock-up of the Bavar-373 engagement radar was a dual band system, later separated to a independent acquisition and engagement radar. The acquisition radar is almost certainly a Hafez S-band AESA and the engagement radar a unknown phased-array X-band.

The idea to use a economic S-band AESA for coarse track and illuminate the tracked region with an aligned emit-only X-band aperture would be a quite elegant solution. It may even cut costs in comparison to a full 10.000 element T/R PESA like on the S-300/-400.

Lets see if Iran was a revolutionary forerunner on such a radar system architecture. Lets say there are not many more answers left if the Bavar-373 wants to be better than the S-300PMU2.

 

[Draco.IMF]

Ok I'm now quite sure that a silent revolution is taking place in the field of SAM systems and Iran is a forerunner in it.

The recent video about the documentary on the Nebo-M and Zuhai 2018 have confirmed something I was thinking about since a while but never had a case of a foreign example.

Here is the thing:
The performance of a SARH/SAGG/TVM SAM is directly in relation with the illumination power of the engagement radar.
The S-300/-400 series is so deadly because it puts a high amount of EM power on the target. So much that jammers can't easily counter it, it "burns trough" the jamming signal.

Now comparing the Bavar-373 and S-400 engagement radars we see the following: The S-400 has a higher amount of emitting elements creating an about 50% or 100% larger aperture area.

To support a 200km range SARH/SAGG/TVM guided SAM, to achieve the same performance as a S-400, you don't just need twice as powerful elements but several times higher power levels (non-linear relation).

So the question is how could the Iranian claim that Bavar-373 is equivalent or better than the S-300PMU2 be true?

Here is the most likely answer: Dual band technology with separated emitting and receiving elements.
The the end of the Nebo-M documentary they show a experimental radar system and say that it will have separate transmitting and receiving elements.
At Zuhai 2018 a new engagement radar for the HQ-16 SAM was shown and it also had a dual band arrangement.

The idea behind the Russian system is clearly to have very high power elements emitting and sensitive elements receiving.
In that way the transmitting element becomes less complex and can handle higher power levels.
With such an approach it could be possible to achieve similarly high illumination power levels as the larger S-300/-400 with a smaller aperture size and fewer elements.
So could the Bavar-373 have 3-4 more powerful transmitting elements that don't use a space/lens feed system but a direct one?
In total far fetched but after the revelations of the last days it would become a possible answer for the claims on the Bavar-373.
There is another hint: The first mock-up of the Bavar-373 engagement radar was a dual band system, later separated to a independent acquisition and engagement radar. The acquisition radar is almost certainly a Hafez S-band AESA and the engagement radar a unknown phased-array X-band.

The idea to use a economic S-band AESA for coarse track and illuminate the tracked region with an aligned emit-only X-band aperture would be a quite elegant solution. It may even cut costs in comparison to a full 10.000 element T/R PESA like on the S-300/-400.

Lets see if Iran was a revolutionary forerunner on such a radar system architecture. Lets say there are not many more answers left if the Bavar-373 wants to be better than the S-300PMU2.

how do you come to the conclusion Iran is forerunner?
Did Iran show an radar compared to the russian one which they show in the end of the Nebo-M documentary?
I wish iran will show his AD-systems engaging cruise missiles/ballistic missiles, not only against "slow" propeller drones
In the next 10 years Iran will make huge huge leaps in AD development, I wish it will be 2nd in the world right behind russia

 

[PeeD]

Why a forerunner? Because it was first to show the concept of a dual-band engagement radar in 2014.
Of course Russia is ahead in radars and their system is separating emitter and receiver elements.

The Chinese system is more like the Iranian concept but has not the difficult task to achieve high EM energy on target for long range engagements like the Bavar-373 (HQ-16 in its lastest version has about 70km range). Hence they likely have two apertures in two bands each with transmitter and receiver in one element (the standard). When I say transmitter it means phase shifter for PESA designs and "true transmitter" for AESA designs.
The Chinese HQ-16 engagement radar is a AESA, as claimed, but it is unclear whether the Bavar-373 X-band engagement radar has a central source EM source and phase shifters (PESA) or has CW transmitting elements without receivers. The problem is that it is quite expensive to build an AESA engagement radar and does use benefits such as high MTBF of AESAs.
On the other hand, without a central space-feed PESA its difficult to pack that high amount of energy necessary onto the phase shifter elements. The Bavar-373 engagement radar without space feed system is too compact for a very high power PESA. The solution would be a new approach such as the emitter-only elements described here which would translate into a kind of AESA in fact.

 

[yavar]

 

[Stryker1982]

It annoys me so much when they call it the Iranian S-300.

 

[Draco.IMF]

something interesting he is telling? english please

Why a forerunner? Because it was first to show the concept of a dual-band engagement radar in 2014.

can you please show a picture of it, thanks

 

[TheImmortal]

Why a forerunner? Because it was first to show the concept of a dual-band engagement radar in 2014.
Of course Russia is ahead in radars and their system is separating emitter and receiver elements.

The Chinese system is more like the Iranian concept but has not the difficult task to achieve high EM energy on target for long range engagements like the Bavar-373 (HQ-16 in its lastest version has about 70km range). Hence they likely have two apertures in two bands each with transmitter and receiver in one element (the standard). When I say transmitter it means phase shifter for PESA designs and "true transmitter" for AESA designs.
The Chinese HQ-16 engagement radar is a AESA, as claimed, but it is unclear whether the Bavar-373 X-band engagement radar has a central source EM source and phase shifters (PESA) or has CW transmitting elements without receivers. The problem is that it is quite expensive to build an AESA engagement radar and does use benefits such as high MTBF of AESAs.
On the other hand, without a central space-feed PESA its difficult to pack that high amount of energy necessary onto the phase shifter elements. The Bavar-373 engagement radar without space feed system is too compact for a very high power PESA. The solution would be a new approach such as the emitter-only elements described here which would translate into a kind of AESA in fact.

US unveiled DBR (dual band radar) prior to 2013 and installed it on Zumwalt destroyers. So how was Iran the first to unveil the concept?

Is your entire analysis based on around the notion that Iran has said the “Bavar-373 is as powerful as S-300PMU2”? Because it could just be psych ops/propaganda.

While Iran has certainly advanced in the field of air defense. To say it is the front runner compared to Superpowers like Russia, China, and US that have been in the field for decades if not since WWII, is a bit of a stretch and a rosy way to look at things.

 

[PeeD]

can you please show a picture of it, thanks

And no, the array below is not a IFF imo.

@TheImmortal

The Aegis system with the AN/SPG-62 is a earlier forerunner and an even earlier version of that family was an emit-only CW radar too.

Taking it to land system and making it phased array is the novel Iranian approach.

The elegance of the Talash system is to emulate the cost effective and compact AN/SPG-62 concept.
Albeit the IRGC system for the Sayyad-2 is very elegant too with a very different approach.

 

[skyshadow]

Bavar 373

 

[skyshadow]

 

[Oldman1]

And no, the array below is not a IFF imo.

@TheImmortal

The Aegis system with the AN/SPG-62 is a earlier forerunner and an even earlier version of that family was an emit-only CW radar too.

Taking it to land system and making it phased array is the novel Iranian approach.

The elegance of the Talash system is to emulate the cost effective and compact AN/SPG-62 concept.
Albeit the IRGC system for the Sayyad-2 is very elegant too with a very different approach.

You mean like this?

 

[skyshadow]