Iranian Air Defense Systems

[AmirPatriot]

Moving swiftly on from certain people who keep trying to derail...

- As expected Meraj-4 is a linear AESA. It is the Bavar-373's Bigbird equivalent, lower update rate but similarly advanced in all features.
Chinese just copied the Bigbird as most powerful mobile radar for LRSAM. Iran developed something new and made the step from PESA to AESA that could bring it to the brute force power of the Bigbird or even more (aperture size is the same).

Sorry for the tardy reply, but here I am. I remember you said Meraj-4 was a PESA. What now makes you think it is an AESA? The advanced features? The Irbis radar for the Su-35 also has AESA-like features, even though it is a PESA.

The capabilities of such a large element (6000+) AESA must be quite significant. I'm guessing this radar can track an immense number of targets. You could probably hook up multiple Bavar-373 systems to a single Meraj-4.

The only thing we need to wait for now is the full unveiling with launch of the Bavar-373. They've held that back for far too long.

 

[Draco.IMF]

Im curious how potent B-373 will be, if it will be on par with the export downdgraded S-300 PMU2, which I personally doubt
Iran made in the last 10 years dramatic steps forward in homegrown AD systems, but I think it will take another 5-10 to have something potent like the export PMU-2
Also very curious if Iran will have its own reverse engineered Tor/Pantsir systems
And hows the progress with Mersad/Raad/Herz 9? Any ideas?

 

[sanel1412]

Im curious how potent B-373 will be, if it will be on par with the export downdgraded S-300 PMU2, which I personally doubt
Iran made in the last 10 years dramatic steps forward in homegrown AD systems, but I think it will take another 5-10 to have something potent like the export PMU-2
Also very curious if Iran will have its own reverse engineered Tor/Pantsir systems
And hows the progress with Mersad/Raad/Herz 9? Any ideas?

There is no such thing as export downgraded S-300PMU2 ...PMU2 IS export version of S-300 ...and it shares same technology from S-400 ,it is only version that can be upgraded to S-400 without replacing hardware....Here is good reference about PMU2 protracted developemnt and migration S-400 technology to PMU2.
Any way this is reason why Iran has insisted on this version...even when Russians claimed they don't produce any more version that Iran ordered in 2007...in that time most recent version available for export was PMU1...but this technology is replaced with S-400 and Russians also developed PMU2 on same S-400 technology because they wanted to make both versions to share same components which makes it easy for integration and upgrades...

"The best technical discussion of design of the S-300PMU2 to date is a recent article by Alexander Ryazanov, Chief Designer, Vitaliy Semenov, Chief Designer, Almaz-Antey, and Dr Anatoliy Sumin, consultant to Almaz-Antey, published in the Russian language Vozdushno-Kosmicheskaya Oborona journal, No 2 . Follow on articles by other authors expand on this analysis Ryazanov state that the S-300PMU2 began as a “deep modernisation” or technology insertion upgrade to the existing S-300PM/PMU1 / SA-20A design, and state trials (Russian OpEval) were completed in 2007. The protracted development of the S-300PMU2 resulted in technology migration from the concurrent but more advanced S-400 Triumf / SA-21. The intent was to maximise commonality in as many components as possible, between the S-300PMU2 Favorit and S-400 Triumf."

 

[Hack-Hook]

Im curious how potent B-373 will be, if it will be on par with the export downdgraded S-300 PMU2, which I personally doubt
Iran made in the last 10 years dramatic steps forward in homegrown AD systems, but I think it will take another 5-10 to have something potent like the export PMU-2
Also very curious if Iran will have its own reverse engineered Tor/Pantsir systems
And hows the progress with Mersad/Raad/Herz 9? Any ideas?

Well I doubt it they planning to do anything about pantsir/tor just now by what we see in recent years it seems Iran right now is playing with Crotale as we can see with Herz9 system

 

[PeeD]

Moving swiftly on from certain people who keep trying to derail...



Sorry for the tardy reply, but here I am. I remember you said Meraj-4 was a PESA. What now makes you think it is an AESA? The advanced features? The Irbis radar for the Su-35 also has AESA-like features, even though it is a PESA.

The capabilities of such a large element (6000+) AESA must be quite significant. I'm guessing this radar can track an immense number of targets. You could probably hook up multiple Bavar-373 systems to a single Meraj-4.

The only thing we need to wait for now is the full unveiling with launch of the Bavar-373. They've held that back for far too long.

Early on I classified the Meraj-4 as PESA to be conservative. But when I saw extensive cooling on-array I realized that it is a AESA and stated so a while ago.
The Meraj-4 has a transceiver for every horizontal element line. So it is a 40 element AESA but each of those elements control something less than 100 "PESA elements". This is not something new, U.S L-band early warning radars for example work the same way. But this concept is different to the Irbis "PESA+" method.
The Meraj-4 is simply said a real AESA, but not a individual element one. It is stated to be a solid state active array on the IEI website, hence it is even officially confirmed.

Single face element count is the same as the tube technology PESA Bigbird.
Like the Bigbird, it tracks many targets, yes and can likely control something like 4 Bavar-373 batteries.

Najm-802 on the other hand is a full AESA for each element, but most likely not as powerful as the Meraj-4.

 

[raptor22]

Early on I classified the Meraj-4 as PESA to be conservative. But when I saw extensive cooling on-array I realized that it is a AESA and stated so a while ago.
The Meraj-4 has a transceiver for every horizontal element line. So it is a 40 element AESA but each of those elements control something less than 100 "PESA elements". This is not something new, U.S L-band early warning radars for example work the same way. But this concept is different to the Irbis "PESA+" method.
The Meraj-4 is simply said a real AESA, but not a individual element one. It is stated to be a solid state active array on the IEI website, hence it is even officially confirmed.

Single face element count is the same as the tube technology PESA Bigbird.
Like the Bigbird, it tracks many targets, yes and can likely control something like 4 Bavar-373 batteries.

Najm-802 on the other hand is a full AESA for each element, but most likely not as powerful as the Meraj-4.

Wow, really AESA?

 

[Blue In Green]

Im curious how potent B-373 will be, if it will be on par with the export downdgraded S-300 PMU2, which I personally doubt
Iran made in the last 10 years dramatic steps forward in homegrown AD systems, but I think it will take another 5-10 to have something potent like the export PMU-2
Also very curious if Iran will have its own reverse engineered Tor/Pantsir systems
And hows the progress with Mersad/Raad/Herz 9? Any ideas?

Not to come off as brutish but everyone and their mothers have been wondering about the efficacy of the Bavar-373. The wait is killing a lot of us who've been waiting for what seems like eons...

Personally I would like to see a fairly large amount of these systems being made. Whether or not Iran can actually produce them in a respectable amount remains to be seen. The more "advanced" the system, the more difficult it is to produce.

Always wondered myself want Irans actual military production output of high-quality weaponry is (but I fully don't suspect getting a straight answer since that would be somewhat of a security concern).

 

[TruthHurtz]

what do you guys think of this article by tom cooper?

http://warisboring.com/iran-is-building-air-defenses-against-stealth-aircraft/

 

[Fafnir]

what do you guys think of this article by tom cooper?

http://warisboring.com/iran-is-building-air-defenses-against-stealth-aircraft/

I remember reading this back when it was published,I`d actually forgotten all about it to tell you the truth.I can remember when I first read it being pretty shocked at the number of mistakes,often really silly ones,what made it even worse was that Tom Cooper was generally considered to be one of the more reliable authors out there when it came to the iranian airforce and its performance during the iran-iraq war and his books on the subject were generally considered to be the go to source.But as for these articles,well honestly if I didnt know any better I`d swear a certain other "military journalist" wrote it,you know the one I mean.

 

[TruthHurtz]

I remember reading this back when it was published,I`d actually forgotten all about it to tell you the truth.I can remember when I first read it being pretty shocked at the number of mistakes,often really silly ones,what made it even worse was that Tom Cooper was generally considered to be one of the more reliable authors out there when it came to the iranian airforce and its performance during the iran-iraq war and his books on the subject were generally considered to be the go to source.But as for these articles,well honestly if I didnt know any better I`d swear a certain other "military journalist" wrote it,you know the one I mean.

i'm only decently versed in iranian military equipment but even i can point out he made many mistakes within the article, i wonder if he uses the same sources taghvaee does? lol. he switches from praising the ingenuity and originality of the systems to claiming they are flat out imports from china which is confusing. there's not even a comment section or email provided where you can contest/question his assertions, it's entirely closed opinion.

 

[Fafnir]

i'm only decently versed in iranian military equipment but even i can point out he made many mistakes within the article, i wonder if he uses the same sources taghvaee does? lol. he switches from praising the ingenuity and originality of the systems to claiming they are flat out imports from china which is confusing. there's not even a comment section or email provided where you can contest/question his assertions, it's entirely closed opinion.

Yes,thats exactly what I felt.The whole thing came off kind of weird in tone,as tho he couldnt quite make up his mind whether to rubbish irans efforts or to be somewhat impressed,it was almost as if he was trying to adopt every single viewpoint on irans capabilities ie: iran is sh!t,iran isnt shit its actually pretty good,iran is pretty good but thats only thanks to china and without that iran would be shit,so yeah,its an odd one.

 

[TruthHurtz]

Yes,thats exactly what I felt.The whole thing came off kind of weird in tone,as tho he couldnt quite make up his mind whether to rubbish irans efforts or to be somewhat impressed,it was almost as if he was trying to adopt every single viewpoint on irans capabilities ie: iran is sh!t,iran isnt shit its actually pretty good,iran is pretty good but thats only thanks to china and without that iran would be shit,so yeah,its an odd one.

I think the compromise here is that, yes iran owes many of it's capabilities to chinese (and to an extent russian) assistance starting from the end of the iran-iraq war, but since the turn of the decade iran has invested more effort into designing and manufacturing domestic equipment as part of your supreme leaders "resistance economy" policy. the newer systems may involve some chinese assistance, which is no problem because it shortens development time and cuts down on cost among other advantages.

when it comes to military analysts on iran, in a weird way i have found israelis like uzi rubin to paint a more accurate picture. perhaps because the israelis like to hype up iranian capabilities in order to prompt a western response, while on the other hand western analysts like to downplay iranian capabilities to save face on their own capabilities (imagine claiming anything but a curbstomp to your people).

 

[AmirPatriot]

@Draco.IMF @BlueInGreen2 with the sorts of things we are saying I do think Bavar-373 is actually similar and in some areas even better than the S-300. The missile looks to have a similar or better range, all its dedicated radars are AESA, which the S-300 lacks. I say dedicated because both the Bavar and S-300 can be hooked up to longer range long waveband radars like the Matla ul Fajr and Nebo SVU, which are PESAs and AESAs respectively. But those radars are not specifically for these systems.

The S-300 has its own advantages, like better ABM capability, TVC, and a bit better mobility (Meraj-4 is not mounted on an all terrain truck), and the Russians are famed for their ECM/ECCM which Iran may not be as good as them. But overall it looks like a great system and Iran should really get down to the business of deploying it.

 

[TruthHurtz]

@Draco.IMF @BlueInGreen2 with the sorts of things we are saying I do think Bavar-373 is actually similar and in some areas even better than the S-300. The missile looks to have a similar or better range, all its dedicated radars are AESA, which the S-300 lacks. I say dedicated because both the Bavar and S-300 can be hooked up to longer range long waveband radars like the Matla ul Fajr and Nebo SVU, which are PESAs and AESAs respectively. But those radars are not specifically for these systems.

The S-300 has its own advantages, like better ABM capability, TVC, and a bit better mobility (Meraj-4 is not mounted on an all terrain truck), and the Russians are famed for their ECM/ECCM which Iran may not be as good as them. But overall it looks like a great system and Iran should really get down to the business of deploying it.

what did you think of tom cooper's recent "analysis" in above posts?

 

[zartosht]

I understand and such behive is reckognized..trust me..but any way...insults will not gain anything for you or them...it just throw wrong picture .Of course this is only frendly advice for all parties....you are free to do what ever you think it is best

i was trying to avoid posting to not add to the problem. but will waste a post to briefly state that normally you are right........... but this absolute parasite is an exception.

this is an excellent thread, with in depth knowledge of air defense systems. and you are reading and learning about interesting things. and in the middle this pathetic troll loser without a life comes along with his trolling and ridiculous insulting of anything iran. it kills the mood of the thread, derails it, and you get a whole bunch of unrelated posts that bring the overall quality down.

This parasite insults and trolls everything iran to compenstate for his pathetic life. The least he can do is have a little courtesy and keep his trolling out of high quality stickied threads. I think he deliberately does it to annoy people and get a reaction at this point.